Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources 5 Levels of Gifted by Ruf

I don't know much about these tests, and now I'm confused and want to understand this better. So if anyone can clarify this for me, I'd really appreciate it.

When Dr. Ruf compared the SBV and WISC-IV to the old SBLM is that without the extended norms? If you have an extended score, would that match up with the SBLM more closely?

I know without the extended scores, you can't tell if a 145 is a 145 or possibly/likely higher because of ceiling issues. So it may really be in the 170's. Without extended scoring, you just can't tell. My dd had a score in the high 150's and I have a really hard time believing that it could really be in the 200's on the old scale. With the extended scores, it went up, but only to the 170's, no where near the 200 mentioned.

I guess it reaches a certain point where it doesn't really matter, she's really out there either way. I'm just curious because I happen to know my parents' IQs (both around 150) on the SB-LM and I think it's interesting to compare.

Dear Sitting Pretty:

I love that Intel commercial! Thanks so much for the kind words.

Deborah Ruf

WPPSI scores are somewhat inflated compared to WISC-IV scores. Part of the reason for this is that many very bright kids are at an advantage compared to the norm groups when they take either tests before they are six or seven years old. It is easier to score above 150 on the WPPSI, too. So, no, you can't really compare them although they are certainly in the "ball park."

thank you dr. ruf..
irene

Dear Grinity:
It is always helpful to me to find out what hadn't been clear to my readers. Thank you for expressing it so clearly for me. I am talking about information and understanding, not small muscle control. I am definitely not talking about handwriting -- or any writing at all - for the typical EG/PG little boy, either! I am talking about concepts, understanding, conversation, and absorbing of the material. I should add that I don't recommend radical acceleration except carefully by some subjects, primarily math. I recommend ability grouping as classroom of choice (rare to find, of course) because the natural immaturities and physical realities make it incredibly problematic to move little kids up too fast to work with more physically mature children. This is one of the reasons Leta Hollingworth talked about how the worst times for PG kids are the school years leading up to age ten. After age ten, the physical issues of handwriting, for example, are no longer a big deal or something that holds the child back.

Just so you know, while I love sharing my information and ideas, I really don't spend a lot of time on any lists or social networks due to lack of time. Please don't be offended if I don't continue to check back:-)

Regards,
Deborah

Yes, I was wondering this too...did Dr. Ruf comment on this, I just skimmed back through and did not see a comment.
Dr. Ruf, if you do have time for this one, that would be great, thanks!

You said 140 on SB5 is more like 165-170 on SBLM. If you also meant that about the WISC IV, is that FSIQ only or would GAI line up in a similar way?

Dear Ruby:

I'm curious as to which test your daughter took and how old she was at the time. I always, always look at Developmental Milestones before I estimate score comparisons, too. Suffice it to say, though, that you are right ... it really doesn't matter the precise score is at this point and at this level. As weird as it must feel, you probably need to accept that your dd is highly unusually gifted.

I am going to be beta testing a new online "screening" for intellectual levels soon and people on this list may enjoy doing it to help us out and get free information of this type.

Someone please become our (my) liaison through my real email address because I cannot keep jumping in here (I have no self-control when it comes to this stuff; I love it!) Contact me through my assistants at dr.ruf@educationaloptions.com if you want to participate in the Levels online beta test.

It's been a pleasure.

Deborah Ruf

Oh, the beta test opportunity sounds very good, thank you. I don't think anyone here will be offended if you are unable to check back. Thanks for the posts you have made

..which makes it even more aggravating that handwriting is one of the things that caused our public HG+ school to decline my YS DS5. (I will stop letting this annoy me eventually... maybe. lol.)

I prefer not to think about what Dr. Ruf says his SB-V score correlates to on the older tests.

The GAI takes out the timed, more physical aspects of the WISC-IV. The WISC is usually the test of choice for school systems because it helps educators know who is having processing - either physical or intellectual - weaknesses that make it hard for the student to show what he or she knows and what the child might need some therapy or special provisions to deal with. In other words, if a highly gifted child scores within the average (normal) range on those parts, it is simply normal. At the same time, it can pull down the intellectual score, which is why the GAI was devised. Some HG+ kids are also high on those GAI-omitted subtests, though, and they will indeed have an edge over those who aren't, e.g. they can press a buzzer faster on Jeopardy:-) So, I tell my clients that Abbreviated Battery scores on the SB5 or the GAI on the WISC-IV are helpful for underscoring the intellectual "essence" of a child, but the un-prorated scores help us to understand "holes" in the profile, places where we are sometimes surprised that our brilliant child can't do it or performs less well than expected.

It is complex. What really matters is whether or not the person who evaluated your child can help you to understand and offer appropriate support for him or her. Ultimately, scores are not the issue. They are merely samples - samplings - of how your child reasons and thinks. The goal, after all, is to do what we can to facilitate the child's growing into the fulfilled, independent, emotionally sound person he or she was designed to be. When my children were younger, I focused on scores, too. It is natural, I think, to do so. But eventually, as they grew and matured and did what they wanted to do, I finally learned what it a joy it is to simply watch what they do, who they are, and where they are going still. Getting the scores right ended up not to make much difference at all.