Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy A frustrated parent: Challenging a gifted child

This is a bit long -- even by my standards -- so please, grab a cup of coffee and bear with me.

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We're meeting with our DS7's 4th grade teacher next week for our annual "Can we please work together to challenge our son" conversation that is always such a joyous experience.

We've had this talk at the beginning of each year since he started school. But somehow I've not been terribly effective in getting my point across, as he's continued to essentially coast through every year so far.

And I'm already beginning to see some warning signs.

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In reading through stories of other adult gifties on the internet, I came across a poignant recollection that could have been pulled from my own journal -- applying to both my son and myself:


I've never really been able to verbalize what has been bothering me all these years, but after reading this story, the proverbial light bulb popped over my head.

Things were almost always too easy... I was rarely, if ever, challenged during school. I'd been allowed to skip along without ever breaking a sweat, or cracking a text book.

This didn't bother me a bit in school. I really did enjoy every single year, never feeling bored enough to complain about it. (I was quite active in extracurriculars and student gov't, which helped guard against boredom.)

But immediately upon entering college -- before classes ever got difficult -- I realized how horribly unprepared I was.

Studying? What's that? Take notes? Are you high?

I figured that everyone else was as truly shocked as I was, so I muddled along best I could without complaining. I ended up dropping out within several months after a distressful first round of final exams. All of my academic efforts had led to that singular moment -- I became a quitter.

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And then I came across the above passage a few years back. I immediately copied it to my journal. And was finally able to put into words what I wanted for my son: appropriate challenges.

He needs to learn what hard academic work entails. He needs to fight with a shiny new concept -- even struggle with it -- and push his way over the hump to an understanding.

He needs to learn tenacity, perseverance, doggedness.

He needs to learn that he's not going to wake up every day already knowing the answers. That he's not going to sit down at the piano and be able learn a piece without any frustration. That he's not always going to blaze through a full year of math in less than 30 days. He needs to miss some spelling words, and *gasp* maybe even fail a test or two. And learn from it.

Despite all my best efforts with his teachers, he's managed to get through his first four years of school without ever once being truly stumped. As a result, he's been conditioned to think that everything is going to be a *snap*. That no effort is necessary. That this is as hard as it gets.

And if I let this continue, I fear that he will find himself several years from now in the same position I was in. If that happens, I will be largely, if not fully responsible.

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Other than a couple of logic puzzles given as a time-filler one week in 2nd grade, the closest thing to a "challenge" for him at school has been 2-digit long division. And it was only "challenging" because he thought he should be able to do it entirely in his head (which he couldn't) and he was genuinely insulted that he should have to actually write down some work in order to get an answer. That's it -- that's the very pinnacle of academic difficulty he's encountered.

But when I approach a teacher explaining that he needs to be challenged in class, they always give me "that" look. "He already works hard," they say. "He has fun," they add. "He doesn't complain about being bored."

OF COURSE HE DOESN'T COMPLAIN! He's having too much fun! He gets to read for much of the day and pester his neighbors!

When I told them that he'd already mastered the 4th grade math concepts, and that he's solid on a majority of the 5th grade math, and then requested that they compact 5th & 6th grade math (or more) this year... well... you know. They weren't smiling.

"Quit trying to push him... he's only in 4th Grade. Let him enjoy himself."

And one counselor even popped in with the classic, "Besides, if he finishes 5th & 6th grade math this year, what will he do for the next two years?" ARGGHHH!!!

And here I sit. Wanting only to challenge him... maybe even PUSH him a little. But I am woefully unable to do it on my own.

Yeah -- having one of these gifties around is really a gosh-darned walk in the park, isn't it?.

I'm truly sorry for unloading like this, but I'm just stuck.

Dandy thank you very much for your amazing post.....you stated EXACTLY what we have been trying to tell my DS6's school/teacher with our first attempt in public school.....you summed up exactly what we are SO worried about- everything comes so easily to him and they are refusing to challenge him at all at school...I would love to print out your post and show it to everyone and say - SEE, I am NOT the only parent who has this same worry! Thanks so much for sharing!!!

I get further by using the word "lazy" instead of "challenged. "Challenged" is a bit overused and I am not sure that everyone who is not gifted truly understands the word. "Lazy" seems to strike a chord.

I am supplementing with Latin, which is different and complicated. She still learns it fairly fast, but it isn't immediate. There are subjects like that out there that take time to master.

THANK YOU for posting that! Seriously, I feel like I'm there right now in my life. I think this really is how I feel about my career because I've done the stuff that was easy enough for me and now I'm just woefully unprepared to break up a larger project into small tasks and get too it. I'm a HORRIBLE procrastinator because even in college I could get by just fine by putting of stuff until the last minute and still get the top grade. Now I'm just stuck and am trying to learn those study skills that I should've learned a long time ago.

Good for you for fighting for your son! I hope you are able to work something out with his school.

I had plans to start Latin this summer with grandson, but changed my plans when he immersed himself in Greek mythology. I expanded the fascination for Greek mythology to include reading about Greek philosophers, mathmeticians, etc. And last week we(yes, we!) started to learn Koine Greek. Learning Greek is helping him with his handwriting and perseverance.

My DS is in the same boat, and what you wrote about the piano totally hits home. He'll put off a new challenging piece because it takes work, and he's never really had to put effort into anything. The thing is, he'll only have to put minimal effort into the piece, maybe just start out playing it slowly instead of trying to attack it full speed, but he wants it to be perfect/easy the first time he plays it.

As for school, we did the grade skip, we added acceleration but he was still sitting reading books at his desk most of the day. The school just wasn't working for us, so I quit my job and pulled him out mid-year to start cyberschooling, something I never imagined myself doing. We battled the first 2 months, and when I asked him if he behaved this way in school to his teacher his reply was "No, things weren't this difficult in school". So, he's being more challenged but I'm taking the brunt of his frustrations of having to actually put in some effort and work.

Outside of school, I'd definitely say he's a lazy kid. When he wants a new Lego, we'll tell him he needs to earn $ by doing chores. His reply will usually be that he'll ask for it for his birthday or Christmas. It's difficult because many times I'm wondering if he's resisting his schoolwork because it's hard or because he's being lazy?

I think we're taking a walk in the same park!

Yes, yes, yes! This is myself and this is my child. In fact, today I am meeting with our homeschool coordinator to see about partially homeschooling my son in Language Arts but allowing him to do the reading etc. during the school day when his classmates are doing their L/A. This is my first time trying to get his curriculum changed to a serious degree (he was grade skipped once already) and my MAIN reason is not so he learns 10th grade material but so he learns to work, study, meet and conquer and yes feel some sense of failure and learn how to move through it and at the end feel the sense of accomplishment that comes from perseverence and not the glib satisfaction of a job easily done.
So many Gifted kids turn out to be underachieving adults for this reason. A great mind is a terrible thing to waste. :-) Why does the educational system insist on doing just that?

Dandy, your story, the entry you quoted... me to a T!!!! I grabbed a tissue after reading this - like finally! I see the light. I see the reasons behind all my struggles, AND I see the reasons to continue to push forward with my DS5.5. I really do not want him to become the quitter I have because he wasn't challenged, because things were easy, etc... and while I have no problems with accountants, he doesn't need to become one b/c he decided to quit on his dreams when what didn't come naturally easy to him slapped him in the face years down the line.

I have no advice, no words of wisdom, but wanted to ensure you that you are not alone in this, and to continue to push for your child's needs!

I want to add my "thank you" to the list. We've been homeschooling our son for the last 2 years which is HUGELY better than the PS option, but he hasn't been really challenged at ANYTHING.

*sigh*

your journal post was certainly me when I hit college. I wasn't prepared for any kind of rigorous work.

Bravo, Dandy!

I feel like I just looked in the mirror. I dread that my DC will have inherited the lazy gene from me and not the ambitious one from DH and no school will push enough to make them see that working hard actually has amazing rewards.

In fact, why am I playing around on the computer? Should be working . . .

I believe most parents with gifted children are in this same boat at one point or another. We were. Ds went to PS Kindergarten and begin thinking that school was for playing and not learning b/c he didn't learn anything that year. We pulled him out and homeschooled him last year. But even then most of the curriculum I had picked really didn't challenge him. Only at the end of the school year did he fell challenged in math but not so much he was still breezing through it. This year we are doing a Virtual Public School and they have actually allowed him to skip 2nd grade. So, he will start 3rd grade. School starts Monday and I talked with his teacher the other day about his math. He finished a 3rd grade math curriculum last year and over the Summer he started a 5th grade math program. She wants him to just take the lesson assesments for 3rd and thinks he could be finished in 2 weeks. Then do the same for 4th grade. She thinks he will probably start 5th grade math in january. He will be doing this for a couple other subjects too. YEAH a public school that gets gifted children. I think this school year ds will get that challenge and may even fail a few test. I hope this all works out.

Dandy - thank you for your post! You expressed it very well!!

I pulled my son from PS last year. I HS'd him for 3rd grade. In January, we finally hit some math that he just didn't instantly know and BAM - that started a 3 month mental shut down for him. He even said that he was so used to always already knowing everything. Also, he equates being quick w/ mental math and math facts as smart and since he just can't seem to get those darn times tables to stick in the allotted time for tests, it really dinged his self-esteem really hard. He said he went from everything being too easy to things being challenging in homeschool. I was soooo happy that we had finally hit something he needed to work on to teach him perseverance, resilience etc but it really hit him hard. In most other areas I don't challenge him enough I think so I hope to up the lit discussions to a higher level this year as I know he's capable of it.

This is exactly what I'm worried. The same thing happened to me. I failed my first class in grad school. It was a horrible stress for me, like a nightmare. I did not tell anybody, I was so ashamed and it took me a year to find the courage to try it again. I truly thought I'm going to fail and never graduate because of one stupid test. Finally I studied really hard for weeks before going to the test. I had no idea that the you were supposed to study (like read) your books before exams! I only read for fun.

I always felt I should be the first person to leave the test room as that is how it was always.

I'm still struggling with laziness. I tend to work quite hard for a while and then give up and wait for "inspiration". Somehow I'm able to get something done, but I would be so much more efficient if I would be able to produce something every day, instead of every third. I'm even thinking that maybe some testing might help me but as I'm not a native english speaker it might be difficult to draw any conclusions.

I look at today's classroom with 30 kids... one where the teacher already has a split grade (4th/5th) situation... where a handful of kids have ZERO parental support other than maybe getting them to school every day... where the teacher has to worry about all the gov't-mandated curriculum... and the budgets really are slashed... aids are gone... materials are ancient...

And then here I come with my precious little snowflake who won't quite fit in with this (or any) classroom, essentially needing his own specialized curriculum and instruction. And I'm telling the school that he really & truly needs help, even when his grades are fine and he's not a behavioral issue (yet)!

So I'd say I'm quite able to see it from their perspective and it does make sense to me in that context.

But then I put back on my taxpaying parent hat and say, "Hey!" "How about a little more help over here?"

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I am so incredibly in awe (jealous?) of those who are able to homeschool their kids. And it definitely seems to be one of the most likely solutions, allowing for a completely customized curriculum.

Our only problem is that one or both of us would wind up buried in the backyard. Just from the little bit of work that we've done together on math, writing and piano, it's clear that for the mental health of this family, homeschooling is a road we must not travel.

Your responses here have been great, helping me to know that I am on the right track. Finally getting my thoughts into writing has helped clarify many aspects of this challenge, hopefully better preparing me for my role as advocate.

Thanks so much!

Dandy ... there are many different paths...it's just finding the right one for the child/family that's the hard part! My ideal situation would be half-day school which was fun/challenging and then half day at home so we can do the far out science/history stuff (and I'd have that break in the day for me and to enjoy my last baby whose already 2.5yrs old). Sigh......

Thank you for your post Dandy. It has certainly strike a chord with many here. I feel it especially so that the kids are starting a new school.
I sent out an "extremely" polite email (in my view) enquiring about school support for DS9.
I received an almost immediate response of "we know where your DS stands,(from results from entrance tests and recommendations from teachers/ psychologist from previous school) BUT, based on our experience, students who are good in some areas lack certain skills in others..... Class room teacher should be given a few weeks to access her students... blah blah blah. "

Well, you get the gist. Dh said it simply meant that "don't bug us" We know what to do with our students. I felt so dejected after receiving the response. I would think the least they could do is to allow a meeting with the parent and find out more!

From the 'Lazy thread'

Grinity - I definitely agree with you. As school became worse for DS, he became worse at home. NOW - he was seemingly perfectly fine at school. Teachers never noticed anything. He sat their quietly, did what he was told for the most part with a few reminders to stay on task but NEVER any problems and never had his card flipped from green in 3years. But his behaviour deteriorated at home. The dr said to watch and see what happens over the summer and nice wonderful boy returned. We still had issues but nothing like when he was in school. I often thought about it and my best guess was that he was so fed up doing what he was told and doing what he didn't want to do at school, he certainly wasn't going to do anything he didn't want to do at home ...as if he gave everything he had at school and just couldn't put up w/ anything at home. He had no emotional reserve left and would blow up. I noticed the exact same thing in my Ker last year. In the space of an hour at home, he'd have 2-3 fits/blowups. He was just a ball of nerves.

the other thing I thought of while cutting the grass....w/ my 2nd DS, it seemed like he was angry at ME, presumably for forcing him to go to school. In the morning waiting for the bus, he kept his distance, was very stiff when I kissed him etc...and he's normally very affectionate towards me.

Ziggy take a walk on the hall of fame! This is above and beyond the call of ordinary parenting. Well done. I love your determination that your son will learn how to learn. I've heard that lots of moms have had to 'unschool' for a while when they first started homeschooling so that the child could re-learn how to find the interest in their own soul. But with a child who has had 'enforced underachievement' for so long - it is so tricky!

I wouldn't say that your son is exhibiting lazy behavior with the legos. He is able to think ahead in a way that is 'too mature' for his age. How old is he? If you watch carefully, I believe you will be able to discover exactly what his motivations are. My son was one who was motivated by things that were not typical of his age. For a while I was walking around the house telling him when he gained and lost 'respect points' through his behavior. The points didn't earn him anything, he just wanted to know, and to have the recognition. Gifties can be odd.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Wow What a fantastic thread, unfortunately no advise from me either as we are experiencing the same thing, and when the behavioral issues start the schools still aren't listening and infact in our experience blame the parents for any problems

I haven't had time to read through all the responses here, but I'm going to throw in my 2 cents while I have a few moments. Hopefully, I won't be redundant to anything already said. Knowing me, this will be long. My apologies! It's my hot button topic.

I've been saying since K, "DS is not learning how to learn." He's allowed to do his work (frequently haphazardly) and then go to read whatever book he's brought to school. Frankly, he's happy to do just that. If allowed, he'd read for hours a day.

I know tons of people who've told me that their now-grown DSs were just like mine in K,1,2..., then their DSs crashed in 3rd or 4th grade and they could never get them back on track. The kids pulled Cs/Ds in high school (never cracking a book) and never went to college, and are now in jobs that are more manual-labor than mental work. Now, I have nothing against those types of jobs. What I don't want are the possibilities that will be open to my DS as an adult to be sealed when he's in 4th grade, because he thought he'd fooled people, and that it turned out he wasn't really smart (like I felt).

Anyway, I recently spoke with one of the Resource Teachers at DS's school and seemed to make some headway. First, I explained what I wrote above that I've heard from all the parents I know of gifties who exhibit their GTness at a young age. Then I told her that DS thinks that: 1) school will always be easy, and 2) he's always going to be the smartest kid in any room. I told her I know that a lot of smart kids don't show their gifts early -- that in 3rd or 4th grade there will be people at a similar level to DS (she really responded to that). I also told her that DS has started saying, "I can't do that" when presented with things that he's not certain he knows -- although when pressed, he can not only do that thing but additional similar ones that are more difficult (so ability is there, but not confidence).

I said, "DS is an academic early peaker," and she said that was a very good way to put it, and that she could see kids like that as a group that could likely benefit from the Resources Teachers' help. She said she understood that he is not being challenged and our worry that he'll lack the confidence and tools to achieve when school does become more difficult. I never used the word "gifted" to describe DS, because our school does not have a gifted program and won't consider offering one at this time.

Now, we have yet to see whether they'll be able to provide anything to really address our issues, but it was the first time someone listened. It was the first time I didn't get the , "We have no gifted program and don't have the funds" or the "All children are gifted." response.

So, enough for my looooonnnnnggg post.

I'm not certain if any of this is helpful. I wish you all luck since it seems there are so many of us in this same overcrowded boat.

Take care!

We're thinking that he spends every waking moment testing limits at home & arguing about fair application of house rules ... but at school, he's thus far avoided any shenanigans like that. We'd much rather have it that way than the opposite (angel @ home; terror @ school).

You really are an optimist -- and I truly admire that!

We've had enough excitement with "learnin'" at home that, while not impossible, homeschooling is not at the top of the stack of probable. It's as much me as it is him -- who knows, it may be all me!

I've spent a fair amount of time helping in the classroom and am amazed by the teachers' patience and their ability to corral those kittens. Those are truly some special people.


I see your point here. After their initial eye-rolling reactions -- and after they realize that I am not a PIA-parent -- all his teachers have genuinely wanted to help. But as the months go along, I believe they are lulled into complacency by his grades & behavior, subconsciously adopting the "If it ain't broke..." rule.
(Other than the one who said "Don't push him!" He just plain didn't want to see things from our perspective.)

Only every day for the last few years!


We're waiting for testing now -- s/b in next week or so. And I've also been talking with a couple different psychs about these challenges, and will definitely be employing their services if we don't make headway.

I have a little more "colorful language" in my version... but I really do have to remind myself -- re-focus on what he needs. I know that I get lulled into complacency as well from time to time. It's not only the teachers.

We're really hesitant about these options, as he has a keen sense of "time for this & time for that" and doesn't like it when the "extra" school work infringes on "his" time. This is why I am so adamant about finessing a solution within the school day. I want him to have all that tree-climbing & bike-riding time -- you know, be a kid, too.

It would really suck to spend a full day behaving & getting work done in school... just to come home and be greeted with MORE work at home.

I added your two suggestions to my reading list -- will be over to the library later today.

There are a couple of programs that he will be old enough for next summer. Already have those on our calendar. Being around other kids of his age & ability will be a big boost for him, I'm certain.

Thanks so much for the ideas & suggestions.

Here's an article I found interesting. It talks about what a child doesn't learn at school if they get lots of praise with little effort in the first few years.
http://www.portage.k12.in.us/160720...597/pdfs/April/Whatachilddoesntlearn.pdf

We have the same thought regarding this. There's just no way that DS is going to have any desire to do more work after school. I can only imagine - DS hates to do homework that's required by the teacher, he's certainly not going to look forward to anything additional, especially if it's imposed by me. I can hear it now "But MOOOOOOM! I already spent all day in school and you want me to do more work. It's NOT FAIR!!!", and so on until I begin plucking the hairs out of my head one by one, because that's nowhere near as painful as doing additional homework....

OH Yes! Our school blamed us (me) 'nicely' for several years... It really isn't my fault that I'm so brillient and successful and have a career and waited until I was so old to have an only child....it's understandable that you spoil him. Gurrrrrr. And to think I trusted them and believed them for so long.

Grum(p)ity

This is what kills me... I've seen his in-class writing assignments and his teachers have always let him skate with applying the least amount of effort possible.

He tries this nonsense at home and I call him on it. And then the tempers flare. (OK, Grinity, now I see your point about how his behavior at home may be affected.)

Let me share a sample writing assignment:

Your assignment:
Write a paragraph about what you did over the summer.

[...]We do our brainstorming out loud together and he plenty of detailed material when we are done.[...]

And then pencil hits paper producing this gem:
"Over the summer we had fun. We went on a trip to Arizona. I took swimming lessons. I played with my cousins. I played tennis. Overall, I had a lot of fun this summer."

Always perfect spelling, grammar and form. But he winds up writing only a fraction of what he worked out while brainstorming. His teacher accepts this and calls it good.

This is the same kid who can spend a 60 minute car ride telling about how all the horcruxes(?) come together in the last HP book with excruciating detail. But ask him to put it in writing and you get: a topic sentence, three or four body sentences and a closing sentence. With nary an adjective or adverb in sight.

Thanks Mama22Gs for relating your experiences -- it is quite helpful to see what approaches others have tried.

In the end, our 'likes plenty of time to do nothing' kid got a gradeskip because he 'just didn't think it was fair' to do one drop of work more than the other kids were doing.

If the child isn't willing to afterschool, and isn't well behaved enough for homeschool, and these attitude problems can't be resolved, then ((cue scary music)) a grade skip is about the only answer. We had to go to a private school for 2 years to get teh grade skip, and then we returned to public with the proviso that 'if mom doesn't see you working hard, then you have to do double what the teachers expect, or back to private school. It did work.

Catching on to what is going on at age 7 is really good.
Best Wishes,
Grinity

We just did one grade skip this year. I'm still hoping that this will be enough...

Absolutely superb. Assouline, mentioned at the beginning of the article, is one of the co-authors of "A Nation Deceived" -- one of my favorite resources in this whole struggle.

Thanks for sharing that little jewel, as their larger work doesn't explore these ideas in any detail.

Sounds like what might be helpful here is some unschooling, ie "child-led" activities.

Are there some projects your dc would be inclined to do based on their interests that might also incorporate some traditional subject matter? That way, it is not "more school work" but they would be still learning...

This has been bouncing around in our heads for the last year. He already got an early admission, skipping K and starting out in 1st at age 4. So now he's 2yrs younger on average than his classmates (esp. the boys). Another gradeskip is as scary to me as it would probably be to him.

Dandy - I have some good news! You son is way ahead of what mine was able to do with writing at that age. Until your son is keyboarding at 90 wpm (maybe around age 9 if you start now) you aren't going to see that level of detail on paper. Think about if you had to post these messages on a text message keypad. Try that for a few times, and then see if your brain doesn't start 'simplifying.' Just keep your son talking his papers, to a video camera or scribing and letting him edit, so that you can get him over this small -temporary-asynchrony.

Really - at age 13, my son is putting together a project on his computer that is 63 pages long.

You still get to be concerned that he isn't learning how to learn, but not in this one particular area, ok?

Smiles,
Grinity

We are try to be very responsive to any projects he wants to undertake for pleasure. This last year we did a variety of science experiments as well as plenty of bug & critter hunting expeditions.

But I guess I'm just not crafty enough, because the moment he smells a "teachable moment" coming at him, he's done.

Our whole family is addicted to the Steve Spangler Science stuff, and have even found some local (& cheaper) sources for many of the items. And while he definitely enjoys the time we spend together (generally), it is still not enough to off-set the "No work & all play" environment at school. I keep circling back around to that.

Grade skip, grade skip, grade skip...

Honestly, I've forgotten about this aspect. There's definitely a severe bottle-neck at the tip of his pencil, and he is very adept at the on-the-fly "simplifying."

One of the district counselors mentioned keyboarding as an option for writing assignments -- I suppose I need to pursue this.

What do you mean?? All I've ever used for posting here is my little cell phone.

Ha!
JK. ROTFL.

G2G now or I'm going to have my very own "teachable moment" if our staff doesn't get their paychecks soon.

TTFN

Opps - missed that part!
Maybe one more will do the trick?

loved the idea of the pencil-tip bottleneck - you have a way with words.

((shrugs))

Is moving to Reno NV in the cards?

Best Wishes,
Grinity
(and BTW, I know Dottie's son, and he's thriving on his radical acceleration path)

Wow Mom to 2gs - very delicately put. Sounds like you've made an ally! Thanks for showing us that it can be done, and how to do it!

I pray that the resources start rolling your son's way. Sadly, my experience is that no matter how you word it, and no matter how receptive they seem, one just isn't going to get differentiation that is 'enough' if the child is more than 3 grade levels beyond the group they are with. Some kids have a lot of inner resources, so they aren't as picky about it, but I really do believe that even the stoutest-heart kid will reach their limit if left to rot too long.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

I remember how petrified I was when we made a last-minute decision to put him in 1st grade @ 4yo, skipping K in the process. It gave me the same feeling as looking over the railing of a balcony from 30 stories up. (Reading A Nation Deceived helped immensely with the decision-making.)

I was a nervous wreck all day until I picked him up after school & learned that he was just fine.

After that experience, I've not been too keen on the idea of another skip.

A couple months back, his principal was reasonably certain they'd have a 4/5 split again this year... which would have been ideal. He would have been doing much of the 5th grade (math, language, reading) but in with his friends for everything else.

So while the notion of skipping him to 5th still gives me the willies, I suppose it sounds more reasonable to me than homeschooling.

The whole conversation may change after he is formally tested next week... we'll see. (But not soon enough!)

We used to do a lot of things like that - I'm a big believer in learning through play and following where his interests lead. I think Dandy's dc and mine are very similar - if DS feels like he's learning something, it's all over. Of course, if I take the sneaky approach, he'll usually fall in...ie. if I start watching something interesting on The Science Channel and he's nearby, he'll usually meander in, but the key is for me not to say "Hey, check this out!". Or, if I get the telescope out, he'll want to get involved. However, if I say "let's get the telescope out and see what we can find", he's turned off instantly.

His lack of interest in learning is, I believe, a result of being bored to tears in classrooms yet required to be there. I'm not even sure I can call it a lack of interest in learning, perhaps it's more the teaching aspect of it. More times than not, he's expressed that he doesn't like having to sit and listen to the teacher go over something when he's got it after the first lesson/instruction. Truthfully, that would drive me bananas, too.

I hear you JDAx3!

I love these gifted analogies from http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/analogies.htm
I even added one myself. Not this one though:

So Dandy, maybe a subject or two acceleration will do the trick...or an afterschool activity like karate or music lessons, where he learns that not everything comes easily?

good luck with the testing next week - I'll be praying that your son and the tester are a good match.

Grinity

I just wanted to mention how beautiful it is that everyone here "gets" that it is about the kid and the outcome, not the method. I love that there is no "Option A is the best and only option for all kids." The fact that everyone really appreciates that these kids are all individuals and need to be treated as such is so nice even compared to other sites for kids like ours.

I'm reading this entire thread and nodding my head in agreement! I was completely underchallenged through school and by the time I started college (a measly 1 year early), I just couldn't do it anymore. My high school was a fairly rigorous school, dedicated Honors/AP curriculum for everyone, but it was really too little, too late. Being an English major in college was just high school all over- I actually recycled papers from my Jr. year and got A's on them. I quit because I realized that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

When DS7 started floundering in K, I just couldn't sit by and watch my beautiful, curious, sensitive little guy turn into a demon who just didn't care. We pulled him because we were *losing* him. He never misbehaved at school, he reserved all the anger for us at home and the school blamed *me* when I tried to talk to them. I honestly could have hit his principal, so it was a good thing that conversation was over the phone. They screw up my child and ask *me* "what's going on at home that would cause this?".

And while homeschooling as been a wonderful experience, it saved his spark and he is (almost) completely healed from his K year, we're caught in the same catch 22 that others have talked about. He's a 7yo working at a 4th/5th grade level at the *lower* end- how am I supposed to ever send him back? I feel like we did this to ourselves, but I honestly don't know how we could have done anything differently.

We went to my DS5's Kindergarten orientation today (different school) and DS7 was almost near tears the whole time. He wouldn't tell me what's wrong, when I finally guessed, he just looked so forlorn. He *wants* to go to school, he wants to be around other kids all day, but he absolutely refuses to be put in a class where he's going to have to sit through things he already knows. He also isn't really keen on being around kids who are 3+ years older than he is, he honestly enjoys kids his own age. He understands that it's an impossible situation, there is *no* good answer, except for the local GT charter school that we have a snowballs chance of getting into because of a lottery system. It makes me so angry for him, he's 7, he shouldn't have to make *hard* decisions- having a social learning experience or actually learning things.

And after typing all that out, I'm not even sure that it's completely on topic, but I really needed to get it out where people understand and this thread seemed to be a good place

> < (hugs)

Did the second skip seem radical at first? The first time the idea of the first skip came up, it seemed like a big deal. Then it became so normal...so having DD skip K was an easy decision.

When the idea of the second skip (this year) for DS9 came up, it seemed pretty radical. Now I'm getting used to it --- but we'll see how things go over the next few months.

So for a third one at your end, maybe it's just a matter of letting the idea settle in? Food for thought. (Ahem! But for my kids, it seems like such a radical move!! Ahem!!!)

Val

Because our son turned 5 before the December cut-off, he was within the normal range for starting K @ age 4.

Technically speaking, then, our son is only accelerated by one year, so I guess starting 1st @ age 4 wasn't that radical (it just sounded that way!?). Rationalizing in that context, then, I suppose one more year still wouldn't be that radical.

He is the youngest in his class, however, and younger than most all the boys by 18-24 months.

I really, really, REALLY wish the school had the 4/5 split they envisioned -- it would have made this so much easier.

Oh Mammaandmore,
this is really sad. but don't ever say never! by the time your DS7 is high school aged, he may want to do high school and be perfectly ready to pour himself into extracurriculars and independent studies. So kids do Community College for Middle School and then regular High School for High School - really! Or maybe you will end up in Reno, or maybe a school for PG kids will open up in your neighborhood. I think you are doing really well to have reversed his underachievement and just meeting his needs each day. Socially, it really only takes one good friend to make everything better. It may be that in a year or two, the 3+ kids will be more fun and interesting.

There must be age segregated sports or art class or drama that he could do afterschool? Any interest there?

Of course it makes you angry, but I do think that having the chance to make hard decisions can be really powerful for kids, as long as they are still getting their basic needs met. Wanting can be a good thing!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I talked to his teacher from last year, who's been one of the most supportive thus far and he's offered to help lobby for whatever type of acceleration we want to try. He likes the idea of a single or dual subject acceleration (math and/or language), which should provide some add'l challenge to his day. This way, everyone would be able to monitor the "social" aspect of the change without the complete grade skip (which would could be a simple transition later). He suspected -- and I agreed -- that it's easier to reverse a single subject acceleration without any feeling of failure, whereas a full grade skip gone bad would probably attract a little more negative attention.

I completely agree with you about the after-school activities.

DS has been active in martial arts for two full years now, at his own choosing, and he enjoys it. He's competed in some local competitions, winning one and getting his little buttocks pummeled in the other. To his credit, the pummeling came first and he had no (outwardly visible) hesitation when the next tourney came around (which he won).

The other sport he enjoys is tennis. The "season" is fairly short, so it's not a big burden on our schedules.

Both of the sports are purely elective -- and should his interest fade, he can opt out provided he fulfills the current season commitment.

Piano, on the other hand... was more our choosing. He actually pestered us about starting when he was four, so we took the opportunity of using it as a carrot: "Yes, son, as soon as you turn five -- if you are reaaaallllyy good, we'll let you take lessons." (Ha!)

He's done well, and if he didn't have the ability, we would not have insisted that he continue. But... he's already better at counting than his mother and reads both clefs better than I ever could.

He definitely considers the practice to be pure evil, but enjoys his lessons and, more recently, has felt pretty proud about some of the songs he's learned. Over the summer break, I caught him sitting down to play on his own several times -- purely for fun. I told him later how much I enjoyed hearing him play while I worked in another room... just as I've enjoyed listening to his mother play over the years. I didn't want to make to big a deal, but did want him to know that it brought pleasure to others in the house... I think he understood.

Between the sports & music, I think he's staying pretty well-rounded and is having quite a bit of fun, while learning some great skills.

Speaking as a late bloomer who didn't skip a grade, I can attest to that. I felt so physically behind everyone else when I was in 7th grade, it wasn't funny. Then, as if by magic, it all changed without me even noticing in 8th grade. I only became aware that I had changed when external confirmations started happening (went from being the last one picked for the team to the first one, etc.).

Val

Well -- the lawn never did get mowed today. Maybe tomorrow (or maybe not).

I got an email from son's current teacher this evening; he said he'd be available to meet tomorrow after school.

So, in preparing for the pow-wow (I tend to be over-prepared, can you tell?), I've been reading more about acceleration and came across an article at EdWeek.org: Whatever Happened to Grade Skipping?

It is co-authored by Laura Vanderkam (Genius Denied) and while much of the argument is quite familiar, the article is current (published Aug 12, 2009) and includes what some schools are doing now to address the needs of gifted students.

In one respect, I like some of the approaches shown, especially the model employed in Lebanon, PA, where all the kids are screened by "subject competency," essentially allowing every student to attend whatever grade-level class is appropriate. As pointed out in the article, this approach squarely deals with the critics, as all kids are individually placed and there is no labeling involved.

What I am left wondering, though -- especially in terms of what we are contemplating with our son -- is whether or not the grade skip alone will truly provide all that is needed?

In my conversation with Mr. Teacher tomorrow, I am intending to ask him about telescoping in addition to acceleration. After all, DS is not going to be challenged by 5th grade math if he gets 180 days to learn what he can probably handle in 90 days (or less).

By relying on grade-skipping alone, in order to truly challenge him in math, we'd have to put him into 6th, where he'd be hamstrung for lack of 5th grade math and essentially forced to learn them both concurrently. (Although I wouldn't call that "challenged," I'd call that cruel & unusual.)

This leans me toward EPGY, etc. for use with in-class math (& language arts?) because on-line programs are naturally geared for telescoping.

Sorry to go on & on, but I'm really trying to clarify this dizzying array of choices in my mind... and sharing (blathering?) here helps a bunch.

Any other thoughts on acceleration v. telescoping?

edit:[I see "Acceleration" as grade (or single-subject)-skipping, whereas "telescoping" seems to be "moving through curriculum more quickly."]

Dandy,

I have a son, 8, who was grade skipped one year (skipped first grade) at the request of the school and not myself. I had serious concerns about his emotional/social ability to move forward. Second grade went very well socially and academically he remained at the top of his new grade. Last year in 3rd I started noticing that he was struggling a bit socially. I am becoming more concerned with fourth grade coming up and yet academically he is still between 2 and 8 grade levels ahead, depending on the subject. Like you I am trying to determine the best path for him and I can not afford to HS. There are no gifted programs near us and our work is embedded in this area so we are not likely to move. So far my tactic has been to try and work with each teacher to get informal accomodations in the classroom. Even so I don't think they really get the level of work he can do. Of course it doesn't help that he rushes through the general work they give and puts in very little effort. I am very concerned that he is learning to think that everything will and should be easy.
For our situation I would vote for telescoping/curriculum compacting but each child is different. My DS would definitely suffer socially and honestly even if he grade skipped again I would not want him dealing with the issues etc. of pre-teens when he was only 8 or 9. But like I said this is my DS. He is very intense and sensitive and I would worry about him handling those middle school years even at the proper age. Your child may very well be able to handle it. I am not sorry I grade skipped my son but I do not think I will do it again. I guess we just struggle through the next few year until grade 7 when subject levels are ability grouped.
Sorry to ramble myself but like you I feel like I want to know all the choices and then choose what is best but all that information just swirls around endlessly in my head going nowhere.
I will be looking to see how you make out in your meeting.
I hope it clarifies things for you.

I've got a BTDT for you!
When DS was in 4th we worked closely with the teacher for lots of inclass differentiation, and the teacher tried really hard, and things did improve...just not enough. So we switched schools for 5th grade and within a month asked for a grade skip. The school tested him and suggested a full grade skip AND additional Math acceleration into 7th grade honor math, which was pre-algebra. I said sure, without any preperation, and one month into the school year.

After 3 months we had to face that the pre-algebra was just too much, and that he was missing out on half of a double session of combined LA/history. DS13s organizational skills are 'age appropriate' at best, and way behind his other strengths. What a mess! So we reversed the subject acceleration, and after a few days of 'comments' from the other kids, it was totally fine.

I say: telescope on your own time at home. I love the idea of subject acceleration because -
1) It give you a chance to see if another full skip is needed
2) It is documented through normal school channels - no chance of 'well, that was an independent project' you need to do grade level math again.
3) If you ask for something doable, it (might) get done.

BTW - the very next year DS took the same pre-algebra class and it was 'too easy' - boy oh boy these kids are hard get exactly right without homeschooling! Still, 'pretty good' is so very much better than 'awful.'

Best Wishes,
Grinity

At least in my house, homeschooling doesn't get it exactly right. AFter a year, I'm still scratching my head. One minute I need to leap ahead, the next I need to take 3 steps back as he seems to have totally forgotten squares and square roots.

Don't fret. Math seems to need 'some' repition. Just not as much as they do in schools, yes?

This used to puzzle me, but a tutor explained that if one doesn't have to pay much attention to an idea to get that idea usable, then we shouldn't be suprised that the idea 'falls out' easily. Like they say on the fast food signs: 'Easy On, Easy Off'

Smiles,
Grinity

Grinity - I just LOVE you!!! I always look forward to reading your post b/c I'm guaranteed there is some little gem there. You are so right....easy on, easy off. You just read so much about that stereotypical gifted kid that hears something once and has it for life. Puts me back into GT denial

That's my DS9. He grasps concepts quickly, knows the lesson before I do it but then sometimes ((((POOOOOOOF)))) all gone. But the 2nd time around it sticks. It's just that it comes easily and DS often refuses to do any practice or review which helps to cements things and make them permanent as well as faster. Rome wasn't in a day.....I must remind myself...it's a work in progress. I'll get out Murderous Maths or some of our other math resources for a review that won't seem like review.

That is the name of the game for these little gifties!

LOL - You are correct, the stereotype that
"All gifted children just need to hear something once to have it forever" is just another myth.

My son is learning French, and you had better believe that he has to review vocabulary a few times to get it into his head! Of course, for him, 5 minutes of studing feels like an eternity. So we break it up into 4 session, 5 to 15 minutes each. Then he seems exhausted. Well, doesn't he have a right to? If he learns as much in 10 minutes as a ND kid learns in 50 minutes, doesn't it make sense that he is as drained and worn out as a kid who has been studing for 50 minutes? All my DH can see is that he 'only' put in 10 minutes, and wouldn't he be amazing if he could work like that for 50 minutes? LOL! Wouldn't we all?

DS is also convinsed that he is working harder than all the other kids. I have no explaination for this one, except that after years and years of 'learning without effort' that it takes years and years to get used to being smart but 'it does take effort.'

Yum, Yum those compliments. I was an underappreciated weirdo for so many many of those formative years. (And for such a large proportion of my current life, as well) Who knew that that ugly duckling was in fact a swan?!?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

This was my first consideration as well -- I really try to think how our requests will affect the classroom & teacher. I would only push (gently) for telescoping if he were using an on-line course in the classroom.

Computers, thankfully, won't be a problem. The schools are so widespread geographically that nearly all the maintenance is done by teachers.

Unfortunately, all prior attempts at encouraging informal accommodations have proven fruitless. That is why this year I'm making it a little more formal so as to assign some degree of accountability.

Your last line above -- it really brought out a knowing chuckle... heck, after hearing of the test results so far, I'm convinced that I don't even have a clue as to what he's got going on under the hood. And that is why I finally relented and pushed for the formal IQ & achievement testing, so we all have an objective idea.

Your concern is very real. From all the stories people shared here and that I've found elsewhere, there are many who could have benefited greatly from proper challenges in school.


Me too... next week. I saw him before school started to ask about a time and he's still quite busy this week. Oh well -- what's another week, right?

This is just what I was hoping to hear from others. I talked to the previous teacher again today and we both thought that a single-subject acceleration -- into the higher classroom -- made the most sense: easier to implement, and easier to undo -- with less chance of any stigma or embarrassment if it did not work.
----------
I was disappointed to have the meeting bumped, but figured it would really be easier to get together after the formal testing is done this Thursday. Although, I went over my son's homework today -- UGH! I know it's all review being the first week and all... but 20+problems on each concept? And just as much for LA review?

I don't want to start off on the wrong foot, so DS will dutifully complete the assignments this week.

I feel like my DS9 and DD6 are very self motivated and I'll mention some things that have helped them.We are very blessed to have gone to a montessorri Type pre school and K. The school works on developing one's inner self.

They constantly tell the kids it would feel good to do ...'
you look proud to have done that,
give yourself a pat on the back,

They don't get into the prizes or sticker - the prefer internal motivation. This is a process and takes time to develop. My kids current school is into the prizes that they seem to enjoy but I'm frequently reminding them that's nice but the best prize is the good feeling inside.

This is actually where my concern is... DS responds well to either type of encouragement -- bribes or kudos.

BUT if he constantly earns praise or learns to pat himself on the back for the inappropriate level of work he's doing now, he's developing a false sense of accomplishment.

From the article cited above, "What a Child Doesn't Learn," I pulled this quote to share with his teacher explaining that "earn[ing] good grades and high praise without having to make much effort" possibly sets him up for a nasty surprise down the road.

It may sound cold-hearted, but the more I read about it, the more sensible the argument appears. For example, he was the only kid to get 100% on their first spelling pre-test. His classmates and the teacher made a fuss about it... which is fine, on the surface. I give him the obligatory high-fives, too, 'cause that is pretty cool. Except he's been doing it since the beginning. I think he's missed a dozen words total in three years of pre-tests (750-900 words per year), and has missed none on the final spelling tests.

This, for me, falls into the category of "already knowing the answers when he wakes up in the morning" and does not constitute a challenge for him. Getting 100% of 2400+ words correct in spelling tests over three years -- without ever having to study -- tells me that his lists are just too easy.

Whereas, if he'd been missing a handful of words on the pre-test every week (like the majority of the kids) and then took time to learn them, scoring 100% on the end-of-week tests -- that'd be a whole different bag of apples.

Maybe this isn't a perfect example, but it's darn close.

One thought that I managed to distill from my OP here into my email to the teacher is that it must sound totally crazy for a parent to be concerned about a child who is generally well-behaved and who has excellent grades. But I am -- I am very concerned.

(Sheesh -- I clearly got a spoonful of cynicism in my Wheaties this morning. Sorry.)

For the record, I know that he's in the middle of his cognitive testing at this very moment... so I'm a little edgy.

Since spelling was a non-issue, we shifted the emphasis on hand-writing. If his spelling was correct, but we needed a PhD in Hieroglyphics to decipher, then no dice. Of course, he rose to the occasion, which for him required considerable effort.

(I'm really feeling far too cynical to be discussing this, I can tell.)

Yes, I'm sure that there is always some aspect of what he's doing that is praiseworthy (and eking out legible words definitely qualifies), but when we're essentially creating alternative "goals & challenges" out of thin air for wont of a genuine academic challenge, we're short-changing the whole process.

Sorry -- I was a bit snippy.

As I've been completely immersed in this subject -- really, REALLY focused for several weeks now -- my frustrations are becoming magnified, if not slightly blown out of proportion. It's as though I have reached a level of clarity that is so sharp, so keen, that no other viewpoint could possibly be correct.

I find myself particularly sensitive to anything that attempts (directly or otherwise) to give the schools a pass on what they are doing -- or not doing -- for our kids.

If my kid were the star quarterback, why... he'd have his own bus, his own cheer-leading squad, everything he needed. Heck, he'd even have a private tutor to help him keep up his grades... probably one of those gifties...

Again, my apologies.

Yes, I just experience this with my DS8. No school all summer and I asked him to do a basic 2 digit multiplication and he got confused when in the spring he did it no problem. But then I asked myself...I once took classes such as Trig. and Calculus and did well but would be very hard-pressed to do it right now without some serious review.
I think that this makes it hard sometimes for others to understand that just because a child is gifted doesn't mean he always knows the answer or remembers everything. They then use those moments to say/think "Well then maybe he isn't so smart." Next time that happens I am going to ask them to supply me with the quadratic formula!

Yes breakaway! DS couldn't remember how to do 2-digitx2-digit multiplication but he certainly got the answer through his firm knowledge of place value!

My friend does have one of those mathy kids that just computes like lightening, remembers everything lol so they do exist....just not my kid lol and I have to remind myself that they are quite different types of *giftedness.*

Our pow-wow @ the school is scheduled for today -- it ought to be very interesting at least.

After speaking with the GT-coordinator and a private psych w/GT specialty, the working plan will be to aim towards a mid-year skip from 4th to 5th by sending DS to 5th grade class for the subjects that really don't lend themselves to in-class differentiation (reading, language arts, writing, etc.).

The GT-person is very well versed in HG/PG and has been working with the school to bring them up to speed on the special needs of these kids.

Having DS spend portions of each day in 5th will give us all a chance to evaluate his performance w/the older class without committing him to a complete skip. This will make it much, much easier to unwind things if necessary -- without affixing any failure labels.

We completed the Iowa Acceleration Scale and it reflects that DS is a good candidate for the full skip. He fell short of the "excellent candidate" threshold because of his age/size.

I've got a good outline of what I hope to have discussed today, but suspect it is a bit on the ambitious side. I gotta aim for the proverbial stars, right?

In the end, I can't give enough credit to the awesome people here. The litany of BTDT advice and all the thoughtful discussion have been invaluable!

And, of course, a special shout-out to Dottie for the superb "Dottie-Fu" applied to the test results and related consternation.

Good luck today, Dandy! And don't worry about asking for too much - if you don't ask for it, you surely won't get it. If you ask, there's a chance of getting it or at least a compromise addressing the issue.

Yes aim higher than you want and compromise to what you're willing to accept! GOOD LUCK!!!! and report back!

good luck dandy. i agree that superb is the word for Dottie. I Also agree to ask for more than u want. It seems to help the schoolies feel less put out if they can say 'no' to a few things. Of couse u have to find inoffensive things to want...gamesmanship can get so complicated! anyway good luck it sounds like a good plan. grinity

I so agree! Even when Ds9's new teacher knew that he is currently taking an online AL course, she said she needed to bring to my attention that "he is slow" compared to his same-aged classmates when it comes to +-/x bigger numbers.

This almost belongs in the Ultimate Brag thread because it is just that amazing.

Despite my usual approach of being overly-prepared in advance of the meeting, I was really unsure of how the events would unfold. And I clearly was NOT prepared for where it ended up... and couldn't have reasonably asked for anything more.

As confident as I felt about serving as DS's advocate, I must honestly say that the school system didn't need any arm-twisting *at all* to give DS what he needs. It started with "Tell us what you would like to do," so I'm sure glad I was prepared with plenty of possibilities!

-- -- --

The gist of the plan is that we will select one or two courses for DS to take in 5th grade classroom (to "test-drive the environment") and continue with on-line instruction -- IN CLASS! -- for Math & probably Language Arts. (School to pick up EPGY tab!!)

If things go well for the remainder of the 1st half of the year, he will be allowed to move to 5th full-time, while continuing any on-line work he is doing. The teacher & principal both agreed that the 5th grade is a terrific bunch of kids in every respect -- one of the best groups they've had in awhile.

We all came away with a common understanding that nothing is set in stone, and that flexibility is paramount in finding the best fit for DS.

What an unbelievable relief.

-- -- --

The Gifted Advocacy Page over at Hoagies provided the best collection of articles to help me develop my focus in preparation for the meetings.

It's not only about what *you* want, and being totally comfortable discussing every conceivable ramification of every possibility or combination of possibilities, but it's ALSO about what *they* want, and being comfortable discussing and/or debating everything that the school is (or might be) contemplating -- especially when some of the popular GT Myths enter into the debate.

And in our case -- even though I know EVERYTHING in the WHOLE WORLD about GT -- it was invaluable having someone from the school or district who was able to do some of the "skoolin'" of the admin & teacher(s) on our behalf -- in advance of this meeting and outside of my presence.

-- -- --

I know that execution of the plan is a whole different ball game, but at least having everyone working together (peacefully) is one killer starting point. And DS will undoubtedly benefit greatly no matter what.

Again, many, MANY thanks to all of the fantastic contributors within these virtual walls.

Hooray - I know that feeling of relief :-)

What great news! Well done for being so prepared and what a great outcome.

That's great news Dandy what a great way to start out - it'll be good to hear how it all works out through the year. Sounds like you've got a good school situation there.

Thanks for sharing your success story here and I'm hopeful you'll have more good news for us as the year continues!

It's been a couple of months since I posted an update, but as we have finished the quarter, received the report card, and have several weeks of the skip under our belt, I figured I couldn't jinx this by sharing.

Bottom line -- it's been awesome.

DS began a test-drive of 5th back in October by spending part of the day in each class (4th & 5th), and was supposed to keep that schedule until the end of the quarter so everyone could discuss whether or not he was ready for a mid-year skip to 5th.

Instead of waiting that long, though, the receiving teacher & principal both agreed that DS had no problems with the switch... and most importantly, DS was thrilled with the move. As a result, he was advanced to 5th full-time after just a few weeks of the 4/5 test-drive.

He's now had a full month and has finished out the quarter in 5th. Everything points to a positive outcome. Whew!

His grades all dipped a tiny bit, with A-minus & A instead of A & A-plus across the board. AND he is having to work a little harder in order to get these grades. I am actually relieved with the slight drop, otherwise it would be difficult to argue with him that he needs to expend more effort!

The biggest difference is that the 5th grade teacher has much higher expectations regarding written communication. DS can no longer skate by with itty bitty answers to questions -- he must give supporting details and examples to backup his writing.

Given the switch to 5th, the only additional acceleration is in math. He finished ALEKS 4th - 6th so far this year and started with EPGY 6th this month. We had considered EPGY for language arts, but have decided to hold off for now. He's enjoying the interaction with the classroom for this stuff, which he would lose if he were stuck listening to Grandpa EPGY for another subject.

Socially, the switch has been mostly a non-issue. According to the teacher, he's been well-accepted by the others, and according to DS, he spends most of his time with the 5th/6th kids on the playground and at lunch.

He is getting exposure to some language & topics on the playground that are new to him, but he discusses these very openly with us and so far nothing has been too hair-raising. It's funny to hear some of the same off-color humor virtually unchanged in the thirty years since I first heard it.

Behaviorally, he has actually improved. Given that he doesn't zip through all his work anymore, he's not left with all the extra time that inevitably led to disciplinary issues in 3rd & 4th. Never anything serious, but still not acceptable. Although his 4th grade teacher questioned his emotional maturity, I believed all along that he would adapt to the other kids in the classroom -- and he has done so.

For a school year that started out with me being a frustrated mess, we've made tremendous progress. It's nice not to be beating my head on my desk with a lot of worries about schooling. Well, there is the big, nasty long-division dragon that we are battling at the moment... but this is a battle I don't mind so much.

Dandy- that's so great. all your hard work has paid off. Keep us posted. It's nice to know what can work.

I was wondering about a few things, if you care to share...
How does your son's size fit in with this group? Is he a sports loving kid? Is he doing sports at school? How does gym class work out for him?

Thanks for updating - that all sounds great, and glad to hear it so. And ah yes, the long division dragon, we have that too ;-)

That's fantastic and very comforting to hear! My DS begins a mid-year skip from 1st to 2nd after the holiday break- it's good to know their attitude about it makes all the difference! DS is bouncing off the walls with sheer joy so that has to be good news!

I am so glad to hear that things are working for your son and hope it continue to work in the future. I'm glad to hear that some of the schools really can get it.

I wish someone could get through to our administrator, so many people below him seem to understand and their hands are literally tied by his ignorance, misinformation and lack of flexibility.

DS goes to karate and plays tennis throughout the year. Both sports are grouped mostly by ability, so he fits in nicely without regard to age or grade.

He's not been interested in soccer/football/baseball(or even encouraged, frankly) despite these sports being very important in our area.

In P.E., he really holds his own. He's one of the fastest kids in 4th & 5th, so he has no problem keeping up. And despite his slender (scrawny?) build, he's quite strong. We call him our little spider monkey.

I'm going to get down one of my Al Jaffee joke books from back in the day... give him a little ammunition!

That's great! Congrats on such successful advocacy work!

Congrats Dandy, so pleased to hear that it is going well!