Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy what's another way to say you must obey?

Oh, okay, I guess I shouldn't have read your post so literally. I thought that you were saying that it would be bad to give in to a child who literally had a good reason. I think we are pretty much in agreement, then. (Other than to the extent that you are supporting forcing kids to eat one type of food to get another type of food, which I really disagree with from a health perspective.)

I'm with Mamandmore on this topic. DS is 10 and currently very intrigued with the idea of becoming a lawyer...

We offer choices. For example choosing to not eat his veggies is also choosing to not get a snack before bed. Choosing not to complete his homework without arguement is choosing not to have any screen time that day. He is aware of the opportunity costs of his choices. Now it is mostly up to him to decide how he wants his day to proceed.

On the other hand, if safety is involved, he does not get to choose. Then it is obedience. He may not ride his bike without his helmit. He may not run in parking lots. Those sorts of things.

I'm not sure I have the spirit of the OP, but if it is trying to find different ways to tell a child that they need to do something, I do find that offering choices and a short explanation works as well as anything for us.

EG.
DS, you need to do your homework now. DS either ignores me or starts fussing. OK, now I tell DS. You have a choice to make. Your choice will determine what happens next. Your choice is to do your homework without fussing, after which you can have screen time. Or to choose to fuss about homework and not have screen time. You have 1 minute to decide. There is no more discussion until you make your choice. If you do not decide, you will spend the next 15 minutes in quiet time afterwhich you will need to decide.

This approach was recommended by DS's Psychiatrist. I can't say it is overly successful since DS is still struggling with impulse control, but it does lead to natural consequences that can be positive or negatice depending on his choices. He likes choose your own adventure style books. So, I do use that it time for a Real Life Choose your own adventure time sometimes, to get him in a better frame of mind for his choices.

Good luck

Excuse my ignorance- What is a "natural consequence" vs. the other types of consequences (unnatural ones? )?

Absolutely! That was my guess but I didn't want to jump to a conclusion (and perhaps suffer from a natural consequence of my own). Thanks!

LOL!!! Actually I'm really just for not teaching kids to be brats. The girl in the example I knew through daycare and this was how she ran her family (and that is not a typo...). For the food thing around here it is basically you get healthy food options for meals that you choose whether or not to eat. Snacks are up to you from the OK snack shelf. Sugar is allowed in sensible moderation. I strongly believe that food should never be used as a bribe or a reward in and of itself, although going out for ice cream as a family on a hot day when the kids have really done a good job of acting decently has been a fun consequence more than once! The focus tends to be more on the family outing part than on the ice cream.

The way I think about it is that a punishment is something contrived by a parent to make a child feel bad about something he or she has done wrong. A natural consequence, on the other hand, is something that happens as a direct result of the wrongdoing. In theory, natural consequences are better, because they teach a child that it is the wrongdoing itself that causes the unpleasantness (rather than just getting caught or having a mean mom). Of course some natural consequences are too awful to be allowed, and some are just impractical.

Mmmm. I think we agree in this as well.

Some experts would tell you the idea of explaining something to a child this young is useless and potentially harmful because it confuses them. This logic falls under the 'Neanderthal Man' approach. Toddlers are seen as neanderthals and it is useless to try to reason with them especially if they are in a complete meltdown and even when not in meltdowns the parents should keep it to simple acknowledgments in reference to the child's feelings. I still laugh at this approach and ponder (okay, I know) that my DD clearly bypassed this stage. We have always been able to reason with the child and as she gets older the reasoning becomes more and more complex. Such as tonight, I went to put her to bed, following her set routine. I have noticed that her required routine has been getting longer and longer in hopes to keep me in the room. Tonight was the breaking point. Nothing was working and even a threat of timeout was meet with glee b/c she knew it kept me in the room. (should have saw that one coming.) When I took her out of the timeout she argued that she was not done. I was getting very frustrated and finally walked out of the room and went downstairs; the whole time listening to her screams and cries but let her go on for 5 to 7 minutes. Then I went back up and talked to her. She told me she wanted to go downstairs and I informed her it was not an option. She is the child and we are the adults and she can not dictate when she gets to go to bed. We make that decision and she needs to follow through. (Okay ... a few big words in this conversation but mommy was frustrated.) Then she argued that she wanted mommy to stay in her room and refused to give me kisses and hugs thinking it would keep me there. I explained that no matter if she gives me the kisses or not I will still put her back in bed, walk out and go back downstairs and she could scream all she wanted I would not be returning to her room again tonight. She thought about it and leaned over to give me my kiss and hug; climbed into her spot in bed and then regurgitated my statement about not coming back. I confirmed that statement; told her good night and closed her door. We never heard a peep from her after that.

It amazes me how much they comprehend and this reinforces why I shouldn't treat her like a toddler or better yet: Neanderthal.

Yes, we have a similar situation, if we have the foresight to explain things we are likely to get a good response from our 3 year old. If we don't, she can be like a brick wall. Unwinding her after she's gotten upset is a lot harder, but still possible (usually) by pulling her aside and using a calm voice, and finding an 'angle' that makes sense/has impact for her.
I am bad about not putting her in time out when she really ought to go, and otherwise upholding the rules but I know I haven't anyone to blame but myself on that. When I do firmly keep a rule in place for a few days going, it makes a world of difference, and then is easier to keep in place going forward.
She knows what to expect and I think she likes it better.

Around here if it's on your plate, your going to eat it, if it's new, your atleast going to try it. You don't have to eat it now, but it will be right here when you get hungry.