Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Recommend a good book on emotional OE?

My DD5 has always been very sensitive and very intense. It seems that my parenting strategies are just not working well with her lately, and we're having many, many meltdowns over small issues. Yesterday, she had a 15 minute meltdown because I put milk on her cereal and she wanted it dry. Today, we had one because I asked her to clean up something she left out. The list goes on and on. I expect these issues with 2 year olds, but not so much with 5 year olds.

We're starting kindergarten next month, and I need a better way to deal with this behavior before I have to have her somewhere on time 5 afternoons a week. I'm pulling my hair out. Is this normal for kids with emotional OE? It's just so over the top. Every obstacle is a crisis, and every little bump results in shrieking and tears.

Is there a book that specifically deals with emotional OE and how to handle it? Or a book that covers it in greater depth than most gifted parenting books? Most have just one little section that mostly describes it rather than explaining how to deal with it.

Please help me save my sanity. Thanks in advance!
Dawn

I can't think of a book name, but check out SENG (Supporting the emotional needs of the gifted) I got a lot of good info from them.
We went through the same thing with DD6 when she was 5. Once she started school though we noticed a huge improvement and a dramatic decrease in meltdowns. I think part of it was that she was nervous about starting all day kindergarten, but at the same time bored with the laziness of summer vacation.
It took some time, but we've figured out clues that it is going to be a "meltdown" kind of day. Usually for us, they occur more often when we've had 4 days of craziness where we've not been able to let her have some "me" time doing what she wants, how she wants.(Why 4 days, I don't know, but that is her pattern, so we go with it. )
I'm also fairly convinced that they correlate pretty heavily with growth spurts. She gets more grouchy and more prone to meltdowns right before I notice that she no longer fits into her clothes.
There were definitely days I thought I'd stepped back in time and was dealing with a 40lb 2 year old, rather than a 5yr old. It was so bad one day that I carried her kicking and screaming out of the store, then buckled her into her carseat and stood outside the car door until she calmed down because I didn't want to be in the car with all of her noise!
Keep taking deep breaths and reminding yourself that it is only a phase and that it too shall pass.

Hi

I'm with Kerry on this one. This year, after 3 weeks of hell in his first term of a new school where he was grade skipped, suddenly it was wow. No dramas, no melt downs. We get the occasional off week, like now where he has a constant cough (left over from a cold) and he isn't sleeping well and we agree with his teacher that this week if anyone says black he will say white but even this is a far cry from the melt downs we used to get.

He does still play out when there are big changes in the offing but is definitely better able to cope with his feelings and dealing with his anxiety. We had terrible melt downs when he was 4/5 over exact same stuff, didn't want milk on cereal, next day did. Ask what's for breakfast, Mon, Tue, Wed - Toast, wake up Thurs make toast - major melt down don't want toast want cereal! Or - make toast for a week cut into squares, then he wants triangles and it,s all hell on.

In the end we did get a bit of advice from his pysch that he was trying to be in control of everything and did need to learn that he was only 5 and not in control, and also that by making it clear to him that he wasn't in control but had grown ups to make decisions for him and by taking away some of the decisions he had to make (ie not asking him what he wanted for breakfast but just giving him it) actually was better for him as he would then realise that the responibility of decision making wasn't all on him. DH did say that I gave him too many choices and I think because our kids are so bright at such a young age we do treat them more like little adults but as was pointed out to me they might be bright but emotionally they are still very young and by taking away some of the choices and decision making we give them back the security of knowing that the grown ups really are in charge.

I think school probably helps to a degree too (once they get over their initial anxiety) because teachers are very good at giving the message that they are in charge and that at school there are rules to follow and codes to obey and I think that probably helps their security. Well thats our experience, not sure if that helps?

Hi, thanks so much for the replies! They help immensely. Just knowing that there's light at the end of the tunnel is a relief in and of itself. I think she probably is having some anxiety about starting school, especially since we're still talking about schools (though we have her enrolled for K).

I've been trying to keep her actively learning through the summer, but she learns so fast and I'm also busy with our baby twins. I'll try setting up more projects for her the night before and see if that helps. She is *constantly* asking for 'something new to do'. I don't know if she's spoiled or just needs new things for her brain to be interested. We're always getting new books from the library at least.

Spook, your comment about too many choices really made me think. DD has always been so self-determined that I have always tried to give her as many choices as possible. Maybe we've ended up giving her too many. Lately, I have noticed her trying to make decisions about all kinds of things, including things that she doesn't get choices on. I'm going to start working on this and see if we get some improvement.

Does anyone have any suggestions for discipline techniques for when their behavior crosses the line? Time outs are really not working...its such a struggle to even get her to go sit in the time out place, and it just intensifies the whole problem.

A good book is 1,2,3 Magic. The techniques in this book can be used across populations (gifted, disabled, etc. ). I use it with my ds and have had very good results. You have to be consistent in whatever method you choose. Also any books on applied behavior analysis would be helpful. Try to determine why she's melting down. Is it for attention, to escape doing something she doesn't want to do, for access to tangible items, or does it just look/feel/taste good. Once you have an idea the function or root of behavior you can more easily address it. For example, if she's crying bc she wants your attention ignore the crying. Give her attn when she's quiet. Praise her often for having the behavior you want to see all the time. If she's having a tantrum to get something she wants -like dry cereal - ignore the tantrum and don't give into her demands. They learn very quickly what works and what doesn't. If she ask appropriately for dry cereal - give it to her so she see that asking nicely works, melting down does not. It's not a perfect science and our kids always keep us on our toes - often out thinking us.
I hope this advice helps. Best of luck!

Hi again

A little bit more on the 'behaviour modification' we went through with DS, although he may have been a bit younger than your DD when we started.

We were advised to find an instant gratification treat (in our case it was a jellybean) and every time we saw him being good we gave him a treat with "well done, good behaviour" or something similar. This was very tedious in the first few days/weeks as you had to be very consistent and very frequent with it. With less and less as the weeks went by as his behaviour improved. On the flip side everytime he went into a paddy we had to walk away from him (I used to walk round the house) so he got the message load and clear good behaviour got a treat and tantrums resulted in loss of attention. As he got older the jellybeans morphed into coins which went in to his money box, and we still reward very good behaviour with coins if appropriate but he really doesn't need it now as his behaviour is pretty much amazing now.

The other thing we used to do when he was mis-behaving badly and it wasn't a walk-away-from tantrum was to send him to his room and tell him he could come back and join us: i. when he was ready to calm down and behave properly and ii. when he was ready to apologise for his mis-demeanors. To begin with it was a struggle to get him to stay in his room and calm down but we stuck with it, I swear its harder on the parent than the kids.

DH still does a lot of positive praise and rewards for good efforts and behaviour which I tend to think could be eased back on now as I'd like to think he behaves well because he wants to and not just for the rewards. But maybe the balance between us works because as I said he really is a great kid now, with great manners but if you'd asked me if I'd feel this way a few years ago I'd have said you must be joking, I saw me or him or both of us in straight jackets and a padded room.

Good luck - I do know how it feels and I'm so glad I got the advise I did when I did and that we were both determined to see it through (we were willing to go with it because we were at our wits end) and now I have a wee charmer who brings us great joy (his teacher aide keeps threatening to steal him, she loves him to bits).

Thanks for the replies and suggestions!

FrustratedNJMom, I will read that book, and look for some others on the subject. I do have a hard time determining people's intentions, so maybe the books will help with that. If I do know what she's tantruming about, then I am careful not to give it to her. But the less tangible things are hard for me to figure out sometimes. I don't know if it is similar to 123 Magic, but I read Love and Logic and liked it, but I had a hard time coming up with a 'natural consequence' for her actions that made sense for the situation, so I just always ended up using time outs.

Spook, I like your suggestion with the reward system. We have a system now that is slightly similar but uses marbles that she can turn in for various rewards. I have a list of rewards she can earn, and how many marbles each reward costs. Our system was different in that she would get 5 marbles a day and would lose them for each behavioral problem. She could keep any left at the end of the day. She could also earn extras for good behavior or helping beyond her normal chores. The problem is that I'm terrible about remembering to use the system. It would be pretty easy to switch it up and just give them when she is good and not take away for bad behavior. She is quick to turn things to her advantage though, so I do worry about her saying "look at this good thing I did, can I get a marble?" constantly. Did you ever encounter that problem? I'm so glad that you have had such stellar results! It is encouraging to me!

Mmmm yes we were advised to give rewards but never to take them away, once earned that was that and to use other things as punishment. The other thing was with the jellybeans that in the early stages the reward had to be instant gratification, hence 1 bean at a time, maybe you could find something a bit healthier (we don't have a problem with sugar overload DS is cealiac with heaps of food allergies so we struggle to get enough calories in him)! The reasoning we were given is that the time frame for exchanging rewards was too long it needed to be a 'well done' now to get the early training in. (I did think it was a bit Pavlov's dogs, but it worked) and yes he did get wise and after a while if we weren't rewarding often enough (in his mind) he would come to us and say, "you know I think I've been really good this morning, do you think I deserve a few lollies/ice block/coins" whatever was in his head that he fancied at the time and we would have a wee chuckle and agree with him. But hey, he was right and he did deserve it so he was fully trained and now we have moments where I still get a surprise - "Mum, you and dad are really busy can I do anything to help?", "sure son can you go get the bins in?" He disappears and I think oh well nice try mum he gone to his play room, but no 2 minutes later here he comes trundling down the drive with the bins. Yeeha, didn't need to even ask twice.

The thing is to begin with it is a constant repetition of reward and praise and you do have to be doing it all the time but as they improve and get what its all about it becomes less. And if she has been good and is asking for a marble because you forgot then I think it shows she knows what its all about and hey its only a marble, have a big stock and go for it I say.

That's one thing I like about his school when they give out house points they give them in tens, fifty's, hundreds even, what does it matter they're only points and it sure makes the kids feel good rather that have 1 house point - whoop.

I'm not suggesting that this way is the be-all end-all but it sure did work for us and it did come from a kids clinical psychologist.

I think you will like 1,2,3 Magic.
My ds7 does try to manipulate me with the "if I do this, then can I have that" or he'll do something nice and then ask for a reward. I thank him and talk with him about how we aren't rewarded with things all the time but by the good feelings we get from helping. We are still working on this.
Consistency is crucial. It's the hardest thing when you are at it 24/7. Also, positive reinforcement has much longer lasting effects. Punishers (loss of marble, time-out, etc) are very effective in the short term so anything you can do for positive reinforcement is better especially when you consistently ignore the undesirable behavior.

I can do this! What do I have to lose? A few empty calories for my DD, and she can spare it. What do I have to gain? My sweet DD back! I think I have DH on board now, so we'll start this weekend.

Hopefully my library will get 1,2,3 Magic back in soon. I requested it, but it appears to be a very popular book.

I really appreciate you all taking the time to share with me what has worked for your families. Raising kids is a tough job anyway, and when you have an intense, sensitive child it gets even more challenging.