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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Last edited by dagobbz; 08/04/18 04:21 AM.
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    I don't think your post was rambling. Sorry to hear you are having trouble finding a good fit for your child. From what I have read, yes leaving the giftedness to take care of itself is usually not a good idea, leads to more problems not less.
    Very long shot idea - any chance the school(s) you like would take your child for part time, a few days a week, giving you a few to tackle the iq part? Would that work for your child?
    Very best of luck to you and your son, and welcome to the forum!

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Hi Chris, nope the school won't take a child on part time frown This school is also the only option we have in terms of placing my son in a fully supportive school (very small class sizes, properly trained teachers, supportive parent community etc). They're supportive in every way but the gifted way!

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    I have this issue a lot. One of my children has Aspeger's and the other ADHD. They want to deal with the behavior first. My general response is, "When you are bored, don't you find yourself having a hard time concentrating? Imagine if you had poor impulse control?" I usually tell them that I agree that the behaviors need to be dealt with but that having a child at a lower level academically confounds that, and makes it difficult to know where the real behavior challenges start. So, my line with the school is to give me the academics and I will give them all the support for the behavior and work with them.

    Last edited by Artana; 07/14/09 04:31 AM.
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    I hope you don't take this as a "social side myth," but i thought it might be helpful to hear about my friend's son who has Aspergers. He's a rising 4th grader. Once she pulled him out of school and was able to deal w/ his giftedness and the inappropriate things occurring at school, his Aspergers symptoms got sooo much better. The school was a horrible, horrible fit for him. Things would happen and he'd hide under tables, run from the room and hide in school etc b/c he didn't know how to deal w/ the situation at hand. Now that she is HSing, she is able to find the RIGHT social situations for him, discuss the situation beforehand if need be, be there to help him deal w/ any situation at the moment rather than being told about it later and getting 2nd hand information, etc. Everyone told her that her son needed to be in school b/c of social issues but it certainly has not worked out that way. Now just a year later, EVERYONE that sees them, tells her how much her son has matured, how in control he is, what a delight he is to converse with. Now I realize that kids w/ Aspergers can be very different, but thought it might help to hear about another kid who has been successful with HSing.

    Your post was definitely not long and rambling. I hope you find a situation that will be a good fit for your son!

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    So sorry to hear about your situation.
    I think your husbands idea is best for the moment. Try it out for a year & if it does not work you can pull him out.
    You might even find some other kids and parents who are in your situation.

    I wish you luck in whatever road you choose.

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    We have had a very similar situation--Aspbergers, FSIQ 138, 11 years old. We pulled him out of our public school in April of last year because the fit was so poor and have been HS since. I too would love to find a school situation that works for him as I can see that his academic needs already stretch me! (He completed 2 academic years of math in about 2 1/2 months and is now working more than 2 years above grade level.)

    Right now, I'm investigating a gifted school for him with mixed feelings. I really want a school that can cope with the behavioral side, however I found during our HSing thus far that when his academic needs are met, we have much, much fewer behavioral issues to deal with. Granted, at home he is not having to deal with other kids, sensory issues, etc. but a good academic fit is critical for my son. When he is bored, he acts out and is inattentive (wouldn't you be too!)but the Aspy traits are challenging for teachers who are unprepared or unequipped.

    I wish I had a perfect solution for you. Right now we're of the mind that we just have to keep trying different things until we find the best fit--probably nothing will be perfect. (We've been in 2 different schools plus HS).

    Good luck and please continue to keep us updated on your decisions.

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    Hi Dagobbz, I am in a similar boat as you. Our son just turned 7 and had to be pulled out of ps for sensory issues. We "hsed" for last spring. We really didn't do anything. Spontaneously he does his own work, reading, math, etc. His behavior has made leaps and bounds. I worry about the socialization as well. Now that we have the education under wraps and the sensory under control, he is ready to tackle social relationships. I did sign him up for baseball, which completely meets his needs for now. I also plan on signing him up for a class at the Science Museum. They run once a week and possibly swimming year round with other homeschoolers. Would something similar to that work for your son? I heard that if you set the social situations up in environments that are rich with their interests, they are able to cope better and really work on the behaviors. I hope you find something that works. Please keep up posted.

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    i just have time for a quickie, but before you dismiss your public school based on preschool experiences, do you know if the public school could offer your son a 1:1 aide to deal with social/behavior and allow him to attend the gifted program. It might be worth asking. That FSIQ is very strong and would qualify him here in my area, so he is entitled to it even with accomodations- which means he needs the aide because without her he could not attend.. We almost did not do public school for same reasons as you (my son has High functioning autism) but were really pleasantly suprised at the package they offered. We live in a big district with a large ASD population, so that works in our favor.

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    Sympathies re your situation - it sounds extremely stressful. Given that the principal and psychologist seem so friendly and open, do you think they're giving you the 'forget' advice because they simply aren't aware of the impact of IQ? If they're genuinely interested in addressing those other issues then perhaps they would welcome the additional information as another string to their bow. And your son might not be the only child who would benefit.

    Hope it works out.

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Thank you everyone for your replies, I'll address some points:

    Artana: I agree with you but I still find myself torn between "if I send him to this school it may cause more problems one way but if I homeschool I might be causing problems another way".

    Dazed&Confused: I've spoke to quite a few people who homeschool their ASD/Asperger's children (gifted or not). They are success stories and I've reading accounts from parents with Asperger's who homeschool their Asperger children and remain adamant that kids with Asperger's should be homeschooled, as even the most supportive environment (like the school I have investigated) can still be a big trigger.

    hkc75: we have only just started tackling the sensory issues (first OT session was today). His sensory problems are a massive factor in his behaviour in a classroom (running around/stimming, disruptive others, aggression, etc). He is starting a social skills group this week, I really hope it does some good but my son's psychologist said that because my son is so oppositional and uses his smarts to try and get around everything, the social skills group might not work frown We did trial a gymnastics class but he ran around the gym being disruptive, swinging the ropes which could have hurt someone and so on (most of the time he stayed in the foam ball pit). His social skills need so much work. He is a really social, friendly child who wants to make friends and play but he just goes about it all the wrong way and isolates children.

    renie1: my son wouldn't be able to have a 1:1 aide enough to cover a school day including the recess times. But with our views on why we would homeschool, the mainstream schools around here are typical of the education system we so disagree with (which is why we were always going to homeschool our children). Some of the local schools claim to cater to gifted kids but all they do is give the child some extra work in class, and I don't agree with that.

    BKD: I suspect the school principal and psychologist didn't realise just how 'gifted' my son is. My son's psychologist specialises in giftedness and from her observations she believes he is in the 'exceptionally gifted' category and at great risk of being failed by the education system. When I told the school my son is reading at a mid-primary school level (maybe even higher) they just said "yes, but how much does he comprehend about what he's reading?" Again, it was in the context of "forget the IQ, it's just a number".

    I guess we can always just give it a go, assuming they offer us a place. Another thing the school said is that they are a boot camp when it comes to the children being expected to follow the rules. If children act inappropriately (such as hitting) they lose privileges such as cooking class or an excursion. Many parents (including me) really don't like this exclusionary approach, however the school argues that "it works, and pretty quickly too. The children learn very early on that if they step out of line there are consequences". They claim to have a really high success rate and I sincerely hope they know what they're doing... they also claim to help Aspie kids with anger management, control of emotions and so on. I hate the thought of my son being excluded from something because he has acted on impulse-- I have seen how much this damages his confidence.

    He has the emotional sensitivities most gifted kids have. On top of that though, he has the magnified responses that Aspie kids often have frown I am concerned he would be 'punished' for acting in a way that he simply can't control at that point (damn, I forgot to ask the school about this).

    Thank you all for your replies!


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    Originally Posted by dagobbz
    my son wouldn't be able to have a 1:1 aide enough to cover a school day including the recess times.

    Can I ask why not? My DS attends a class with a 2E boy (Aspergers), has full-time aide in the classroom. (We are in Aus too)

    I'm not aware at all of how the system works so really have no idea how they've managed to do that.

    I hope you are able to find a solution


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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Hi tory, it's just what I was told by early intervention people and those "in the know". But regardless, we wouldn't send him to a mainstream school so we haven't further investigated.

    Just a little update if anyone is still reading! I spoke to my son's psychologist about the school and she agreed that the "ignore the intellectual ability, treat the behaviour" is a concern but we can always do enough with him outside school hours and that he definitely does need the social side of things. The psych will be writing a letter to the school mentioning that my son is highly likely to be disruptive if he is not receiving work that suits his level of ability. So at least we will have one expert backing us up (my son's psych specialises in giftedness).

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    dagobbz,
    I've seen this exclusionary approach in action and I do not think it helps children with Aspeger's or with ADHD. My older Aspie son really beats himself up when he realizes he did something wrong. If there is a punishment like that on the horizon, he spirals negatively until he can't pull himself out for a good 1/2 hour. The school tried it with him, and I stepped in and explained that the severity of the punishment has to be on par with the severity of the crime. Being put in the Principal's office works fairly well for him, because he talks about what he did with the Principal and Special Ed teacher and he calms down away from stimulus all at the same time.

    I do not HS, so I have to be a warrior mom a lot. Still, I think it is doing a lot for my DS7 to be exposed to situations that are hard. He has the special ed teacher, me, and hopefully, next year will have a 1:1 aid. All of this helps him learn how to behave as he hits triggers. He also internalizes the triggers, doesn't react as much to certain ones, etc. So, I am definitely happy with the results.


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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Artana, again I agree with you and you have voiced my concern about the exclusionary approach not working with AS or AD/HD children. My son hits, kicks and spits during a meltdown and I hate the thought of him being punished for this in a way that may well trigger another episode of the same thing!

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    This is such hard stuff and I feel for you in trying to make these decisions. So much of it is a guess and it may just come down to the luck of the draw on the individual classroom teacher too.

    I sense it isn't what you want to hear but I'll share...Probably a third of our local homeschooling group is made up of kids on the autistic spectrum most of them kids with AS or HFA. Nearly all these kids first went to public school and it didn't work out for a variety of reasons including sensory overload, lack of adequate intellectual challenge, punitive environment, and overwhelmingly negative social experiences. That isn't to say school won't work for your son, it may and it is great that you are investigating ways to try to make it successful. but I would encourage you not to permanently close any doors. Treat it as a year at a time decision and be ready to pull him if you need to.

    Last edited by passthepotatoes; 07/15/09 06:34 AM.
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    dagobbz, I am by no means an OT. I found a ton of helpful info in these 2 books; "The Out-of-Sync Child" by Carol Kranowitz http://www.out-of-sync-child.com/ and "When the Labels don't fit" by Barbara Probst, MSW, LCSW http://www.amazon.com/When-Labels-Dont-Fit-Challenging/dp/B001EL6RK6.

    What I have found is that basically every person has a flight/fright/fight response. When sensory overload occurs, one of these responses kick in. For my DS7 it is flight. If he cannot run away, he will create a diversion, usually some sort of misbehavior. He feels horrible afterwards and asks "why would I do that?" when he is in trouble which leads me to believe he really cannot help it. If you can find a teacher/aide who is aware of his sensory triggers or sense when his behavior starts to turn, then that person can remove him. I have found tremendous progress with my son just by helping him find his triggers and working with him on coping skills. It sounds like your son's primary response could be fight???? Could he be reacting by trying to push the stimuli away? HTH Those books are really good reads for anyone with a kiddo. laugh

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    We were also told - deal with the behavior first and the intellect second - by the school and psychologist who advised schools (no bias there then).

    Sounds like a bummer of a situation - though some of the suggestions already posted may help? Don't discount a public school that has one-on-one aid, and if they provide that despite your son achieving good academic scores all the better! (I don't think you mentioned to what extent the social behavior is damaging his academic record if at all?)

    My husband read and used "The Myth of ADD" -by Thomas Armstrong this summer - which has at least 50 suggestions on how to make your home enrivonment more stable/less confusing etc. for the child. Assuming the Aspergers is not a mis-diagnosis - I should think some of the suggestions may help in the Aspergers home too. Your child sounds very bright and in need of the right kind of challenge intellectually.

    Rather than view the "socialization" issue as a "myth" I still think we can stand to re-define what socialising really means and whether it's necessary for social skills to run perfectly smoothly or change straight away. I mean your son is only five and my own experience with schools made me personally feel entirely "crazed" over the whole social thing.

    As many above have stated, generally if your child can share something intellectual or a shared passion/love for something with those around him - I would think that will go a long way in making him socially "acceptable". Maybe society needs to become more accepting of what it means to have an Asperbergers child? Sometimes I wonder, who am I trying to please via my child's behavior? Whose standards of beahvior are being applied? Is it even fair to expect the same standards of someone with Aspergbers?

    Without knowing the specific issues of your child in public situations it's hard for me to comment without sounding unfair - but are you being too hard on yourself? I think you'll know fairly soon, whether the new school is helping, or still not challenging enough. I feel for you. Ignoring a budding intellect due to behavioral issues has been my son's entire experience at school too - and ignoring an IQ as high as your son's seems like a crime to me!

    Good luck.

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    Yes - I have to back the others up here - punitive enviroment hasn't worked at school at all - made absolutley no difference - except worse behavior and lack of self-esteem / poor bad image. Gentle consistent time outs for compliance at home however, that's a diffrent thing.

    School experience was so bad - that son started repeating the yelling /meltdown behavior with his dad this week when starting in on the currciulum for next year. After the tantrum and the realisation that it meant a return to school - he got back into "I love to learn" mode.

    I'm actually surprsied the school is taking that appraoch with Aspie's. I thought there was tons of research to show that they are totally out of control and can't help a lot of their behavior - same as ADD kids. So why push them to conform to someone else's standards?

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    Hi,
    It sounds like you have a lot to think about.....I wanted to recommend an excellent resource.

    http://www.paulakluth.com/

    There is a lot of wonderful information on the website itself, but I also just finished two of the books and I HIGHLY recommend them (A Land We Can Share and Just Give Him The Whale). They are extremely reader friendly and very effectively reframe the sometimes punitive/deficit focused thinking around instructing/responding to children who have autism. The viewpoint and the suggestions are both positive and realistic. Also, the suggestions are written in ways that would be very easy to share with a school or a teacher.

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Thanks again everyone. My son's psychologist actually thinks that the whole losing privileges thing won't work on DS because he is quite oppositional and defiant (but not ODD) and won't really care.

    The thing for me is that when DS loses a privilege that he loves, like missing out on his favourite TV show ("Scrapheap Challenge") he has a meltdown. Full on anger, distress, hitting, spitting. Even the threat of missing out on Scrapheap Challenge is enough to get him angry. Tony Attwood for instance says the special interest should not be used as part of a punishment (something like that) and I certainly believe this applies to my son.

    If there was an activity at school that he loved, it would be something of a special interest. If he was to lose that, he would flip out and even though he would calm down within 10 minutes, it's such an intense 10 minutes that doesn't end there. We feel the repurcussions for some time to come and due to his memory recall abilities, he remembers the hurts frown

    However there are plenty of times when he does act inappropriately deliberately, even calling my attention to what he is doing (this is when he is disciplined). Another example is hitting a child lightly and then gradually hitting harder to see what the adult will do. If he did something wrong deliberately like this at the school then yes, there should be consequences. But if he was acting on impulse, it's completely wrong IMHO.

    hkc75: I literally received "The Out-of-Sync Child" today in the post as well as the follow-up book with activities. I think you're right, my son does the fight response. He has never been one to withdraw from a stressful situation, he will try to gain the upper hand somehow.

    IronMom: you raise some points I've been debating myself. Sometimes I wonder why there's such a push by 'the system' to mould my child in to something else. People are tolerant of 'eccentric' adults like my Aspie husband and his Aspie family but eccentricity appears to be a big no-no in children. And there's no way I want my son's eccentricities to be suppressed, they're what make him who he is. Sure, there are big problems with the social skills and he needs help there but I really hate feeling like psychologists and teachers see him as "broken" and in need of boot camp to be made better.

    Taminy: thank you for the link!


    What to do... on one hand I think let's try it because my son might love it and I feel we should at least give him a chance. There have been a few occassions where we thought he would flip out but was fine so we know there's the possibility he might enjoy school and having friends. The school is also big on building self esteem and he needs that. I get the feeling that any praise my son gets from his parents is "yeah big deal". But if he received encouragement from other kids, it may help. I have seen him play with his 8yo friend and he did really well.

    Any more opinions welcome!





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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Another update! I had a long chat today with a teacher who specialises in G-AS kids (Gifted-Asperger's). She too disagrees with the exclusionary, punitive approach and believes it's the wrong way to deal with Aspie and AD/HD children.

    We also discussed the likelihood of my son receiving the intellectual challenges at home-- I said I can not imagine my son getting home from school and then me doing stuff with him to fully satisfy the intellectual needs. The poor child will already be exhausted and I doubt he'll want to do anything more than unwind and relax. Besides, I would *want* to help him relax and de-stress when he gets home.

    I also didn't think the classroom was very Aspie-friendly, I felt a bit overwhelmed my all the visual distractions!

    The specialist teacher agrees that the social side of things is such an important factor with my son... but there is a good chance he will not have the best experience there because a) the school uses an aversive approach to controlling behaviour; b) his sensory issues are pretty big and c) he will be underchallenged and therefore likely to be disruptive (and chances are he will be punished for that in a way that might provoke more undesireable behaviour).

    On the plus side, this teacher said she wants to work with my son in a sort of mentor role. This is great news for us.

    Still, there's a huge void where my son's social interactions are concerned. His weekly social skills group isn't going to be anywhere near enough. I have investigated local homeschooling groups to see if anyone else is in a similar situation so the children can get together but no such luck frown

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    I think the punitive approach works in the short-term but not in the long term. It has never worked that well with my oldest. I was such a stubborn kid - yeah, you want to take that away from me? Fine, I never wanted it in the first place. It can be a great way to squelch a love for something.

    Afterschooling in the early years can be quite easy. I used a curriculum called FIAR. It was basically a list of books and it gave you geography, history, art, music, math, science ideas to bring up with each book. It was great to snuggle up and read a book and discuss these things at the end of the day. By 2nd grade, the homework was piling up, afternoon sporting activities and increased stress at school from lack of challenge required even more downtime in the evenings.

    I don't think you need someone in a similar situation, just someone who understands your situation.

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    I just though I'd share my story to offer another possible alternative. We ended up approaching the school with a compromise. We all agreed that they couldn't meet my DD9's educational needs in the elementary school setting for most subjects, but needed that help with social skills, pragmatics, inferences, you know the drilll. We wrote an IEP for a partial day. She (an Aspie as well) attends PS in the morning for speech therapy, social work, and ELA to work more on pragmatics and inferences. She is way ahead in reading so they make some accomodations within the classroom for that. She homeschools all her other subjects and attends a YMCA homeschool gym and swim program. She participates with Girl Scouts.

    Everyone, literally eveyone who has regular contact with her has noticed a significant positive change in her over the last year. This compromise allows her to move ahead in her subject material at her pace, and to pursue her passion in science, while getting the help and support she needs. When I first appoached the school they weren't willing to do anything. We then had all her testing done by the school to back up our independent evaluation and involved an advocate from ARC. The school seemed to suddenly realize what they "could" do once the advocate was involved and have been very accomodating. I give the local principal much credit in our success once he saw the problem and understood it.

    I have to run kids today but if you want to talk more PM me.


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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Thanks smile

    After discussing the situation with the special ed (Aspergers and Giftedness) teachers we know who have been involved with my son, we all agree that the boot camp approach of the school, together with the punitive system is exactly what my son doesn't need. In fact, his former preschool teacher told me her coworkers used the punitive approach with my son and it never worked, just escalated the behaviour. But when she would use her approach (the 'right' thing to do with children like my son), he would comply 99% of the time at the first request without a fuss.

    I have also had a couple of great learning opportunities for my son practically fall in my lap so I am very pleased. One is the potential for a special ed friend to work with my son as his tutor and therapist next year. The other is a teacher dealing with 2e kids like my son wanting to work with him in our home. Wow wow wow! Both options will provide a little more social interaction and chance to practise social skills but we are still on the hunt for play and work opportunities with other children.

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    Soooo does that mean you won't be sending him to that school and will be HSing him?

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    yep that's right. We're going to be more proactive in providing cooperative work for my son so he gets some social interaction that way (for eg he's very egocentric and dominates play so we'll work on stuff like this and then expose him those situations).

    We started his social skills group, he was all over the place and being a bit disruptive at the start. The staff dealt with it well, but to think he would be like this at the school and have them use the punitive approach when there is just so so much sensory stuff going on... nope, can't send him there even if it was great in other areas.

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    One thing that might help: Quality not quantity. If he's having 4 good hours a week with other kids that's SO MUCH better than 40 bad hours. If he can start getting positive experiences it will go a long way to helping him be open to more and more as the years go on. For that first year I wouldn't push it too hard or stress that it all has to get fixed right this minute. The mentors/teachers are great and if you can get a couple of other one on one things that's good too. If you are going to think about a group class I might look for something that would be helpful with sensory organization. Some common suggestions would be karate, swimming or horseback riding, but it may be better to wait a year.

    Once things settle in a bit for him, one thing we've found that works well is to organize small group activities - could be even just one or two other kids. If you will do the planning and get together supplies and/or a teacher if needed, I bet you will have no trouble finding another kid who wants to be involved.

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Thanks smile You are so right about 'quality not quantity'. This is the approach I take with the homeschooling. Because of my son's attention and focus issues, he sometimes disengages after 5 minutes, so I have to make those 5 minutes a really good 5 minutes. That's all it takes for him to learn a new concept and then I take it from there. Thanks for putting it to me that I should apply this to the social side of things.

    And can I just say that I've been on the Internet since 1992 and "passthepotatoes" is one of the best usernames I've ever seen smile

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    Aw, shucks.

    And, FWIW, here success in one on one situations with teachers, and then one on one situations with other kids eventually lead to success in small groups and then bigger groups. It took time, planning and patience but each one of these successful experiences built on the one before. I'm a big believer that for these kids avoidance of negative social experiences is really important.

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    hi, yes I agree with you completely about avoiding negative social experiences. My son for example doesn't know that people can bump in to him by accident so if he gets hurt, he gets really angry and distressed and can retaliate. Even when he hurts himself, he takes it out on us. So a fun social outing can quickly turn in to something so negative for him.

    I think we'll be using a baby steps approach to all of this, with what we do at home, OT, going out and so on. Quality not quantity as you said, and starting off small and gradually expanding.


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    Originally Posted by dagobbz
    My son for example doesn't know that people can bump in to him by accident so if he gets hurt, he gets really angry and distressed and can retaliate. Even when he hurts himself, he takes it out on us.

    Hi again,
    This is in those sensory books I recommended above. It could really feel like an assault to him when someone else bumps into him. He also really could be "lost in space" and not know where his own body ends and something else begins. We found it really helpful to play catch with a tennis ball, hopscotch and kickball. All of these require our DS7 to judge distance relative to his body in space. Our OT told us that with the GT kids she works with, she also uses the cognitive approach (something with an engine/volcano/anything your son can relate to) to teach them how to regulate their emotions. It really sounds like you are getting some awesome feedback and I am so jealous of the support you are getting with outside resources. laugh WTG!!!!

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Thanks!

    Yep you're absolutely right about the "lost in space" thing, this is in his OT assessment report. We've only had the one OT session (they're seeing us fortnightly) and they've got a big plan of what to do with my son. My special ed friend (son's former preschool teacher) used to use CBT on my son to help regulate him emotional response and it worked. She used his cognitive strengths and interests such as the human body and would explain that getting his "red face" (when angry) wasn't good for his blood pressure. He was able to calm down on his own by looking at himself in a mirror and doing deep breaths to a count of 10.

    I've got the two "Out of Sync Child" books, I must start reading them asap but I'm also reading Deirdre Lovecky's "Different Minds", some Tony Attwood, the list goes on!

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    Hello everyone, I thought I would post an update on this.

    My son is now 6y7m and homeschooling is by far the best thing for him. We're all so happy and he is doing so well smile I can't even believe I was considering school for him, for the 'social' aspect, heh!

    I worked out a long time ago that we needed to take a very cautious baby steps approach to his level of comfort and ability to cope in social situations. last year we worked on playdates with one other child, then two children, etc. His level of social interaction last year was minimal, simply because we don't know many other children his age and I could see he needed extra attention with play/interaction skills. I decided it was best to build these foundations slowly then provide the gentle exposure so he could apply what he learnt.

    I was also introduced to Social Thinking (www.socialthinking.com) which IMHO is the best approach to assisting high functioning kids with social difficulties. It has been fantastic for my little boy.

    I never found the kind of school I was looking for which I know now should be a school for exceptionally gifted kids with learning difficulties, ASD etc. Basically, a 2E school where Aspie kids are catered to. If I win the lottery I'll set up my own smile

    This year we have more interaction as we've joined a homeschool group and have a few more friends. Academics-wise, my son is in first grade (grade 1 in Australia) and has been assessed at mid 7th grade for reading (comprehension is good but because of his ASD, understanding a character and their perspectives is a little diffcult, we are tackling this with Social Thinking concepts). He is upper primary/elementary elementary for maths and what he doesn't know he picks up very quickly. There is no way any school would provide that level for him, not in first grade (teachers have confirmed this for me). He is also learning high school science topics in greater detail and is loving it.

    Forgive the brag, I'm just so proud of how far he has come. I've read over some concerns I had about him a year and two years ago and can't even remember those things, which of course is a good thing smile


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    Originally Posted by dagobbz
    Forgive the brag, I'm just so proud of how far he has come. I've read over some concerns I had about him a year and two years ago and can't even remember those things, which of course is a good thing smile
    I'm so glad, dagobbz, that you came back to update us. I'm proud of him and so very proud of you!!! ((little happy tears in my eye corners))

    You were able to accomplish so much more that was available for your son. Go Momma!!!

    Here's a prayer that you do win that lottery jackpot - a bet there are many you could help.

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity


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    You just did exactly what is meant by forget the IQ and deal with the behavior.

    - Realized the school was a source of anxiety.
    - Placed your child in a more suitable environment to deal with the anxiety.
    - Most importantly, solved the anxiety problems quickly, so you can get on to the education. Dealing with the behavior is suppose to be a short term goal.

    Psychologists make these simple rules for parents, teachers and psychologists who do not have a natural ability to figure it out themselves.

    I think you might just have a natural talent for making the right choices. So the starting your own school idea is not a bad idea.

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    dagobbz Offline OP
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    thanks for the replies smile

    JamieH, when you say "You just did exactly what is meant by forget the IQ and deal with the behavior" I have to disagree there-- the people telling me this were saying to forget about the gifted side and providing nurturing/challenge/stimulation there and just focussing solely on behavioural issues (some told me to do ABA, no thank you). The teachers and ed. psych saying this had no gifted streams at their school and said it wasn't necessary for my son and that at their school his behaviours would be worked on (they used a discipline based approach for the ASD kids which to me was horrific when they outined their strategies) and I would have to do any gifted stuff at home.

    I absolutely disagree with this and if a child is seeking that kind of intellectual stimulation, they should receive it during the day (like at school) instead of having it go untouched and then doing it at home, when they're dealing with the stress of a long day.


    I have used my son's intellectual ability to help modify and shape his behaviour, not one person we have encountered in special ed or psychology or ASD 'help' has done this. For eg my son wasn't turn taking or sharing when he was younger. All those specialists would say to him "you must share, you must take turns" but not teaching him WHAT this meant; his role in the social context; how others thought of him; why he would benefit from sharing/turn taking etc. So I taught my son all this myself and used his interests and ability to analyse a situation.

    I have never seen this done by the numerous (and I mean numerous) professionals we have encountered, including psychologists, psychiatrists, teachers, special ed, ASD therapists, etc.

    We have a handful of specialists we see because they agree with my approach and fully support what I'm doing, where we never ever put the giftedness aside and just dealt with the behaviour.

    Just to clarify, my son has never been to school, just a kindergarten which was a terrible experience for him.

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    I am not the least bit surprised to find out you were not impressed by every professional you ran into. This has rarely been my experience as well.

    Anyway, I am glad to get your feedback. I am fairly sure I am not successfully communicating my thinking. Just ran into one of those behavioral issues in an 8 year old aspie half way through the message. Under control, but lost my train of thought.

    And yes, I find discipline in my experience is not very effective.

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    My impression of your concerns with the schools is a tendency for them to only worry about behavior and totally ignore education. Some of them go as far as to ignore the giftedness as they feel the behavior is a sign of a lack of giftedness. I agree this is a big problem.

    What I was referring to is the problem they also have getting the behavior in check so the teaching can be effective. Behavior is often just a sign of anxiety. That is why I mentioned removing the source of anxiety. It is pointless to try and educate an extremely anxious child.

    Having read what else you said, I detect you feel keeping the child interested can solve the behavior problem. Yes, I would agree with this when the child is in a comfortable environment as in their home. In the school, the first problem they face is finding a comfortable environment for the child. Even the best teacher will have the odd occasion where a specific child is uncomfortable with them for no apparent reasons. What I was referring to is forget about the teaching until you at least solve any anxiety issues. This is both an upfront issue when the child begins school and a daily issue as the teacher learns the various trigger points in the child resulting in behavior issues. The teacher does not have the luxury of having years of experience with the specific child to work with. It is a learn as you go issue.

    Giftedness and behavior are two separate issues and do have to be worked on. Academic education is not a cure for behavior. Sure keeping a child interested can avoid the behavior in the early years. So for a school, this is not a bad way to go as they can then focus on education. However a parent has to allow the behavior to happen in order to solve the behavior problems. A parent has to be the one setting the rules, not the child.

    As much as ignoring the education entirely is a bad idea, ignoring the hehavior issues is at least an equally bad idea. Avoiding the situations resulting in the behavior is a good way to have productive periods of time during the day. It is still important to gradually introduce the situations resulting in the behavior. When the days come where this cannot be avoided, the results can be disasterous if not taken care of early.

    I am just discussing my thoughts on this. In no way is this even close to an expert opinion. I am hoping getting in on the discussion will bring out some good ideas by others.

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