Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy "forget the IQ, deal with his behaviour" ???

Thank you everyone for your replies, I'll address some points:

Artana: I agree with you but I still find myself torn between "if I send him to this school it may cause more problems one way but if I homeschool I might be causing problems another way".

Dazed&Confused: I've spoke to quite a few people who homeschool their ASD/Asperger's children (gifted or not). They are success stories and I've reading accounts from parents with Asperger's who homeschool their Asperger children and remain adamant that kids with Asperger's should be homeschooled, as even the most supportive environment (like the school I have investigated) can still be a big trigger.

hkc75: we have only just started tackling the sensory issues (first OT session was today). His sensory problems are a massive factor in his behaviour in a classroom (running around/stimming, disruptive others, aggression, etc). He is starting a social skills group this week, I really hope it does some good but my son's psychologist said that because my son is so oppositional and uses his smarts to try and get around everything, the social skills group might not work We did trial a gymnastics class but he ran around the gym being disruptive, swinging the ropes which could have hurt someone and so on (most of the time he stayed in the foam ball pit). His social skills need so much work. He is a really social, friendly child who wants to make friends and play but he just goes about it all the wrong way and isolates children.

renie1: my son wouldn't be able to have a 1:1 aide enough to cover a school day including the recess times. But with our views on why we would homeschool, the mainstream schools around here are typical of the education system we so disagree with (which is why we were always going to homeschool our children). Some of the local schools claim to cater to gifted kids but all they do is give the child some extra work in class, and I don't agree with that.

BKD: I suspect the school principal and psychologist didn't realise just how 'gifted' my son is. My son's psychologist specialises in giftedness and from her observations she believes he is in the 'exceptionally gifted' category and at great risk of being failed by the education system. When I told the school my son is reading at a mid-primary school level (maybe even higher) they just said "yes, but how much does he comprehend about what he's reading?" Again, it was in the context of "forget the IQ, it's just a number".

I guess we can always just give it a go, assuming they offer us a place. Another thing the school said is that they are a boot camp when it comes to the children being expected to follow the rules. If children act inappropriately (such as hitting) they lose privileges such as cooking class or an excursion. Many parents (including me) really don't like this exclusionary approach, however the school argues that "it works, and pretty quickly too. The children learn very early on that if they step out of line there are consequences". They claim to have a really high success rate and I sincerely hope they know what they're doing... they also claim to help Aspie kids with anger management, control of emotions and so on. I hate the thought of my son being excluded from something because he has acted on impulse-- I have seen how much this damages his confidence.

He has the emotional sensitivities most gifted kids have. On top of that though, he has the magnified responses that Aspie kids often have I am concerned he would be 'punished' for acting in a way that he simply can't control at that point (damn, I forgot to ask the school about this).

Thank you all for your replies!

Can I ask why not? My DS attends a class with a 2E boy (Aspergers), has full-time aide in the classroom. (We are in Aus too)

I'm not aware at all of how the system works so really have no idea how they've managed to do that.

I hope you are able to find a solution

Hi tory, it's just what I was told by early intervention people and those "in the know". But regardless, we wouldn't send him to a mainstream school so we haven't further investigated.

Just a little update if anyone is still reading! I spoke to my son's psychologist about the school and she agreed that the "ignore the intellectual ability, treat the behaviour" is a concern but we can always do enough with him outside school hours and that he definitely does need the social side of things. The psych will be writing a letter to the school mentioning that my son is highly likely to be disruptive if he is not receiving work that suits his level of ability. So at least we will have one expert backing us up (my son's psych specialises in giftedness).

dagobbz,
I've seen this exclusionary approach in action and I do not think it helps children with Aspeger's or with ADHD. My older Aspie son really beats himself up when he realizes he did something wrong. If there is a punishment like that on the horizon, he spirals negatively until he can't pull himself out for a good 1/2 hour. The school tried it with him, and I stepped in and explained that the severity of the punishment has to be on par with the severity of the crime. Being put in the Principal's office works fairly well for him, because he talks about what he did with the Principal and Special Ed teacher and he calms down away from stimulus all at the same time.

I do not HS, so I have to be a warrior mom a lot. Still, I think it is doing a lot for my DS7 to be exposed to situations that are hard. He has the special ed teacher, me, and hopefully, next year will have a 1:1 aid. All of this helps him learn how to behave as he hits triggers. He also internalizes the triggers, doesn't react as much to certain ones, etc. So, I am definitely happy with the results.

Artana, again I agree with you and you have voiced my concern about the exclusionary approach not working with AS or AD/HD children. My son hits, kicks and spits during a meltdown and I hate the thought of him being punished for this in a way that may well trigger another episode of the same thing!

This is such hard stuff and I feel for you in trying to make these decisions. So much of it is a guess and it may just come down to the luck of the draw on the individual classroom teacher too.

I sense it isn't what you want to hear but I'll share...Probably a third of our local homeschooling group is made up of kids on the autistic spectrum most of them kids with AS or HFA. Nearly all these kids first went to public school and it didn't work out for a variety of reasons including sensory overload, lack of adequate intellectual challenge, punitive environment, and overwhelmingly negative social experiences. That isn't to say school won't work for your son, it may and it is great that you are investigating ways to try to make it successful. but I would encourage you not to permanently close any doors. Treat it as a year at a time decision and be ready to pull him if you need to.

dagobbz, I am by no means an OT. I found a ton of helpful info in these 2 books; "The Out-of-Sync Child" by Carol Kranowitz http://www.out-of-sync-child.com/ and "When the Labels don't fit" by Barbara Probst, MSW, LCSW http://www.amazon.com/When-Labels-Dont-Fit-Challenging/dp/B001EL6RK6.

What I have found is that basically every person has a flight/fright/fight response. When sensory overload occurs, one of these responses kick in. For my DS7 it is flight. If he cannot run away, he will create a diversion, usually some sort of misbehavior. He feels horrible afterwards and asks "why would I do that?" when he is in trouble which leads me to believe he really cannot help it. If you can find a teacher/aide who is aware of his sensory triggers or sense when his behavior starts to turn, then that person can remove him. I have found tremendous progress with my son just by helping him find his triggers and working with him on coping skills. It sounds like your son's primary response could be fight???? Could he be reacting by trying to push the stimuli away? HTH Those books are really good reads for anyone with a kiddo.

We were also told - deal with the behavior first and the intellect second - by the school and psychologist who advised schools (no bias there then).

Sounds like a bummer of a situation - though some of the suggestions already posted may help? Don't discount a public school that has one-on-one aid, and if they provide that despite your son achieving good academic scores all the better! (I don't think you mentioned to what extent the social behavior is damaging his academic record if at all?)

My husband read and used "The Myth of ADD" -by Thomas Armstrong this summer - which has at least 50 suggestions on how to make your home enrivonment more stable/less confusing etc. for the child. Assuming the Aspergers is not a mis-diagnosis - I should think some of the suggestions may help in the Aspergers home too. Your child sounds very bright and in need of the right kind of challenge intellectually.

Rather than view the "socialization" issue as a "myth" I still think we can stand to re-define what socialising really means and whether it's necessary for social skills to run perfectly smoothly or change straight away. I mean your son is only five and my own experience with schools made me personally feel entirely "crazed" over the whole social thing.

As many above have stated, generally if your child can share something intellectual or a shared passion/love for something with those around him - I would think that will go a long way in making him socially "acceptable". Maybe society needs to become more accepting of what it means to have an Asperbergers child? Sometimes I wonder, who am I trying to please via my child's behavior? Whose standards of beahvior are being applied? Is it even fair to expect the same standards of someone with Aspergbers?

Without knowing the specific issues of your child in public situations it's hard for me to comment without sounding unfair - but are you being too hard on yourself? I think you'll know fairly soon, whether the new school is helping, or still not challenging enough. I feel for you. Ignoring a budding intellect due to behavioral issues has been my son's entire experience at school too - and ignoring an IQ as high as your son's seems like a crime to me!

Good luck.

Yes - I have to back the others up here - punitive enviroment hasn't worked at school at all - made absolutley no difference - except worse behavior and lack of self-esteem / poor bad image. Gentle consistent time outs for compliance at home however, that's a diffrent thing.

School experience was so bad - that son started repeating the yelling /meltdown behavior with his dad this week when starting in on the currciulum for next year. After the tantrum and the realisation that it meant a return to school - he got back into "I love to learn" mode.

I'm actually surprsied the school is taking that appraoch with Aspie's. I thought there was tons of research to show that they are totally out of control and can't help a lot of their behavior - same as ADD kids. So why push them to conform to someone else's standards?

Hi,
It sounds like you have a lot to think about.....I wanted to recommend an excellent resource.

http://www.paulakluth.com/

There is a lot of wonderful information on the website itself, but I also just finished two of the books and I HIGHLY recommend them (A Land We Can Share and Just Give Him The Whale). They are extremely reader friendly and very effectively reframe the sometimes punitive/deficit focused thinking around instructing/responding to children who have autism. The viewpoint and the suggestions are both positive and realistic. Also, the suggestions are written in ways that would be very easy to share with a school or a teacher.