Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional test discrepancy

I've been lurking for a while, but I am interested in the opinion of you guys of these scores on WISC IV. one year apart.

Full scale IQ 119, verbal 130, Perceptual 121, working mem 110, processing 88

Full scale 119, GAI 133, verbal 144, perceptual 112, working mem 94, processing 94

subtest 1st time sim 16, voc 14 comp 15
block 15,picture concepts 8, matrix reasoning 17,picture comp 14
digit span 10, letter number 14, arith 13
coding 7 symbol search 9, cancellation 6

subtest second time sim 18, voc 16, comprehension 18, information 16, word reasoning 16
block design 13, picture concepts 13, matrix reasoning 10, picture completion 16
digit span 8, letter numbr 10, arithmetic 12
coding 9, symbol 9 cancellation 12

Her woodcock johnson scores are all over the place too, from 10th %tile in spelling to 91 %tile reading comp.

Her evaluator gave her diagnosis of gifted with and LD in written expression and math.

However she took SCAT above level testing. She had 95%tile in math and 83%tile in language for two grades above her grade.

because she has FSIQ of 119 she can't get into gifted programming. because she is not failing she can't get SPED or accomodations. she is frustrated in her current placement but its better this year than last year with a more understanding teacher and being changed to upper reading group from the lowest last year.

I would appreciate thoughts and recommendations. dottie are your daughter's scores all over like this? some of her subtests changed 5-7 points.

Hi Confused,
Welcome!
I have a question about the SCAT. If you still have her paperwork, check the little curves on the back of the page that show how the other gifted kids did on the test. Knowing how well she did against kids 2 years old gives you some information, but knowing how she did compared to other same-aged Gifted Kids is information I can really understand pretty clearly! That's a bell shaped curve also, with most of the kids right in the middle, and a few out on the tails.

You don't say how old your daughter is, or what grade level she is at, but I would suggest that you read the IOWA Acceleration Scale Manual just to help understand all the tests, and organize them in your mind. I would guess that the Above Level test is much stronger than her IQ scores would indicate. Did your tester give any advice or suggestions about what kind of educational interventions would be useful?

Smiles,
Trinity

Hi thanks for the kind responses.
she took the scat in third grade. she is now in 4th grade.
if i remember correctly she was btween 90 and 96th compared to gifted 3rd grade girls in math and in the top quartile in language.

With the wisc scores and her other stuff i am at a loss about "how gifted" she is and what level of expectations we should aim for. I am kind of frustrated that these test numbrs seem so arbitrary yet they mean so much to the educational-industrial complex. how can verbal reasoning vary almost a standard deviation and mean anything. and some of individual subtests are 50%tile or more different.

She reads very well and ravenously now. She did an SRI last year that was over 1150, but the school didn't tell us about it because her teacher thought it was a fluke. She read on her own at about 4-5 but stopped reading at all when she started K. However in every other way she fits a classic dylexic profile. Kind of like the stealth dyslexics the Eides describe.

the Ruf level you guys talk about I guess she is mostly 4s with 3s and 5 sometimes.
She had existential interests at a very young age. At three she wanted to know why God let people be born with severe handicaps and birth defects and why if he was all powerful he couldn't end suffering and if he could and wouldn't what reason could God have to want handicapped people to suffer.

Dottie her situation at school is way better this year. She is in a small private school.She had pretty profound dysgraphia last year and couldn't keep up with the work. Her teacher thought she was lazy not very bright and made her do classwork during recess most days and put her in the lowest groups for reading and math. Since we were new to the area, this really interferred with her social integration into the class and her self esteem. she was miserable and hated school.

After last years evaluation and the SCAT, school is much more sympathetic and she does EPGY for math so no more endless work sheets,timed drills and two-hour homework sessions. her handwriting suddenly improved this year though we have started working with keyboarding. her physical skill acqusition has been behind her age peers but comes all at once. she didn't ride a two wheel bike until 8. but immediately after she got the training wheels off,she just got on and rode off without another thought about it. Her handwriting is not as good as her bike riding but she can keep up in class most days, and if she trys, it is as legible as the other kids now - but slower.

the social things are more pressing this year. There are alot of group projects and her perfectionism runs over into the other kids work in her group. she can't understand why they don't want to correct their mistakes and do their best. the other kids sometimes think she is bossy and picking on them. She wants to get more in detail with science and social studies projects but this also puts her in conflict with the other kids.

that's why i looked into our local gifted program in public school. They do magnets and pullouts but she doesn't qualify for magnent. regular school with pullouts wouldn't help much - if they even let her have it. She'd just be in a bigger class and still not fit in and not get the EPGY math. Basically they don't want her in the gifted magnet because they don't want to deal with her LDs and they can use her average IQ as an excluder. there are way more kids than spaces and they can be choosy.

We are doing an og based program to remediate her spelling/dylexia issues. now that she is in a better classroom situation she doesn't really have ADD symptoms much any more so I doubt that diagnosis, but still keep it in mind.

As she gets older will her scores change? Are there other tests that might better show her intellectual abilities.

I just wish she could be around kids that want to talk about the complex kinds of things she likes to talk and think about. she lacks the maturity(sometimes) for gradeskip and i don't think shes academically ready either with her spelling and writing issues.
Her chosen companions are mostly younger and older and like complex fantasy and history stuff. but its hard to fit in play dates. Kriston I envy your homeschooling.

She knows she's smart but also feels "stupid" We've explained the LD stuff to her and she's read up on it on her own some too i think. but she says shes too smart and too stupid to fit in anywhere. I hate that she feels this way at her age--at any age.
other than telling her she does not have to completely fit in to enjoy and benifit from something or someplace and that sometimes you have to make your own place or make a place your own, I don't know how to help her in this.

So how gifted am i looking at? what can i do to help my dd not feel so alone in who she is? ie how do i find a peer group. Is she as unusual as i seem to be finding?

Confused,
I would guess that your daughter is definitly "gifted enough" but that until her LD's are accomidatable it will be hard to really know. Have your professional helpers been useful at all?

I will say that once she get to be 10 or so you can start having her take the SATs or ACTs. I do reccomend introducing her to learn to type software. I really believe that our LD/gifted have very unique contributions to make because they see the world so uniquely. Obviously building Character is key, and I think that you are doing just that as you are helping her know herself.

I wonder if she could be excused from group work, or placed with children who can handle her? the EPGY is a very good thing. Would the school try a suject acceleration, particularly in a subject that requires group work?

As for finding a peer group, have you contacted your state gifted association? Or does she have any interests that have Adult hobbyist groups, such as weather, geology or reptiles? It seems to me that her peers may be folks with similar interests who are much older, even adult, and that encouraging her in her areas of strength is going to be very important.

Best Wishes,
Trinity

thanks for your comments.

Mostly i don't really worry about how gifted. I just try to meet her where she is that day or that moment even. She can go from acting age three to 16 to 47 in lighting speed sometimes and she can worry about some of the wierdest things.
I'm lucky that she still talks to me about how she feels but I don't know how long that will last as she ages.

however all the talk about testing and scores and stuff on this board kind of got me thinking about what i might be missing or not providing for her. If she is more than a little gifted, am i doing it wrong? should i get more for her? require more from her?

She definitely has overexcitabilities that are almost overwhelmming to me and her.
Once when she was 4 I was hurrying her walking to get somewhere on time and she made me stop and look at the sunset It was gorgeous. I looked down and she was crying a little and i asked her why and she said i was because it was so beautiful and she got to share it. she told me it was nice to slow down and look at beauty and we didn't have to hurry so much...

I think alot of her asynchonous development is at least partly related to dealing with overexcitabilities. that is why i didn't readily accept the add diagnosis it was largely based on questionares from a teacher who didn't like her.

I am glad other peoples kids play with younger kids too. I was afraid it was an immaturity thing and that younger kids are easier to boss around. I can see that they are more likely to engage in imaginative play and that may be the appeal.

Trinity i don't think she will be ready for the SAT for a while. with the new writing component, she would freak out. and they won't score the test without it. She got accomodations for the scat with extra time ( she only used about 10 min extra, but it relieved the pressure of time) and a separate room for testing. Since it was on the computer the dysgraphia didn't enter into it. I don't think it is very easy to get use of keyboarding for the SAT.
the OG/Barton is helping with her phonemic awareness, but that will take a while to really be remediated.