Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources Young Scholars Program

Hi,

I'm new here and just learned about the young scholars program, and found this forum. From what I've read on this site and my internet research, it seems that all the children who are in the YSP have been accelerated, or are true child prodigies (winning national competitions in piano or equivalent feats). Our child meets the WISC-IV and WIAT-II criteria, but is in a public school with a regular second grade curriculum at age 7 (they don't have gifted programs at that age anyway - they believe in differentiation, not acceleration). I'd like to apply, as I believe that many of the problems in his first years of school could have been avoided or lessened with the help of the YSP, but we are not in the same boat as those of you whose children are so many years ahead in reading, writing and math.

I'd appreciate your sharing your experiences and knowledge.

Thank you so much!

We've applied to the DYS program recently and are waiting to see if dd has been accepted or not. She is also 7 and in 2nd grade, like your son. Based on everything I've read, and the response from the ladies here, the YSP sounds like an excellent program. DD also scored well on the WISC IV and is doing accelerated work in school. She isn't a child prodigy like you described (nat'l awards, piano, math etc) but there's no question that she's PG.

I think your son would benefit from the program, especially if he has no acceleration options.

Davidson runs 2 different programs that are easy to get confused even though they are different: the young scholars program (YSP) and the Davidson Fellows. The Fellows get awards for their prodigious accomplishments, whereas the YSP supports and nurtures highly/exceptionally/profoundly gifted kids who have great potential, but may or may not have accomplished at high levels. I remember getting these two progams confused when I was new to the website. It seems like the YSP would be good to apply to.

Thank you all for your replies. We actually had our son evaluated because the first grade teacher thought he'd have trouble with second grade!!! He hated school and hated the school work - and the educational psychologist stopped most of the tests once he reached the upper ranges b/c it didn't matter any more for our purposes. She said he'd test even higher if he was willing to go further, but he was tired and tired of the testing so she stopped when he went high enough for her to understand the source of his frustration in the classroom. Needless to say, his last school was an utter disaster. At least he's happy in the public school, but I realize that my role as an advocate is far from over - and I need some clout behind me.

Thanks again for your repsonses. I have to say that this is one of the most polite message boards I've ever seen.

Hi questions,
Welcome! Not all the YSP kids are accelerated, and my son is only accelerated by a single year, and that was just last year. He has made it quite clear that this is "just right" for him! Some of the kids are academic superstars and some are problem children and some are just nice normal appearing kids, particular from an adult view-point, if you don't have much experience with what normal children are truly like. Some kids go out of their way to fool their teachers and fit in, with elaberate stratagies for calibrating just how well then can do to get good grades and still fit in.

I would say that the number one concern of all the parents that I have talked to is about raising a decent human being. Profoundly gifted children have certian advantages and certian disadvantages on this path, and I've found it really helps to know what the other parents have discovered.

One of our jobs is to help our children understand themselves. Being around other parents of kids who scored similarly has really helped me know my child better, and be a better mirror for him to know himself. I don't see how I would have gotten that without the YSP.

Smiles,
Trinity

For those already in the YSP:

Were you able to find other parents in your area that you could talk with/meet or are the contacts purely online?

I ask because I live in a small little town but am just an hour away from the Davidson Academy. I sure would love to meet other parents and kids around here that we could talk with and meet.

(of course, we are still waiting on word on the YSP...hopefully we get the opportunity to be a part of it! Fingers crossed..we should know in a couple of weeks)

Thank you, Trinity. Your comments are helpful. We'll apply and see what happens.

I thought as homeschoolers we were reasonably well off without the YS program, but I eventually applied with the hope that I'd have some help with mapping out a plan for my unique children. Five years later, I am SO incredibly grateful to the Davidsons and their wonderful staff. I can see what a huge hole it would leave in my family's world if the program dissolved. The parent to parent contact is more amazing and helpful than I ever would have believed. The professional seminars are informative, the staff will do their best to answer off the wall questions and help with advocacy.

Most of all though, my kids now know what it is to be with true peers. I grew up feeling like a stranger in a strange land, and lonely as hell in the middle of a crowd. Nobody seemed to know the real me. I am thrilled that my kids have access to other "aliens" and will not have to journey through childhood trying to fit in and feeling like pretenders. They know that they are not alone after all.

Sorry to get so sentimental. If your child has the test scores, I encourage you to apply!

Tammiane,
Yes, the YSP definitely helps you find other families in the PG community. For our family that has been the greatest benefit of the YSP. We have what some would consider a large group in our area. We (the parents) plan a variety of activities that provide the kids and parents opportunities to interact.

Another benefit of the YSP is that they provide private bulletin boards and e-lists specific to different needs and stages of raising a pg child.

Summer

Tammiane,

I forgot to say good luck to you and your daughter! From the website, it looks like they respond in two weeks after the deadline - which is pretty amazing, considering what they are offering and how long the private schools around here take.

Good luck! Hope you get good news in the next few weeks.

We have 3 families with similar aged boys at the hour away mark, that we've gotten to know through YSP. My son "hit it off" with one a pair of brothers, and it's been amazing for me to see him interact with them in a totally different way than he interacts with me, or his cousins, or his other fiends.

The "Density" varies by area. But we have also learned about certain local events, such as MIT Splash, Beyond IQ Conference, and the Talent Search activities through YSP parents. Meeting Dottie and her son in real life has been so important, because as you know, my son's "adaptive" behaviors in the past have had us all wondering "what's wrong with him?" Dottie can vouch that he spends long hours at a time acting like a delightful young young man. When we were first in the YSP, I was desperate enough to drive to gatherings 6 hours away, just for my son to breath the same air as other YS kids. I am happy to report that I am much less desperate now, and have even turned down 3 hour trips.

Smiles,
Trinity

Hi,

It's Questions with questions again. I'm confused (sorry, Confused). I've been reading a lot of the other posts here and then I went back to look at the YSP criteria, and I'm not sure what Total Language is on the WIAT-II. Our son's substests were Reading Composite, Math Comp., Written Language Comp. and Oral Language Comp. Which one is the Total Language referenced on the YSP website? Now I"m wondering if I misread the qualifications - oral language is our child's strength - he has a fine motor delay and resultant writing issues. Is oral language the Total Language they're referring to? Of course, I could just call and ask... but you all seem so nice!

gee suddenly i don't feel so alone. everybody is me
but i also have questions, questions.
and dottie if you are confused at this point i don't feel so bad about being confused.

haha.....

I do like this forum. You are ALL so nice! In any event, thanks, Dottie - if it's oral language we're okay, as he has qualifying scores with the composite and one subtest, as well as the VCI on the WISC-IV. Now I'll have to go over to Test Discrepancy and see what you wrote...

Thanks, everyone - for the info and the laughs.

I'm glad you feel just like I do about finding this forum, questions! It has been so incredible for me to be able to talk about my dd like this. The women here (are there any men that post? ) are so helpful and encouraging. Feels like home!

Well questions
I'm sorry for hijacking your thread.
but you and dottie did invoke confusion.

I just read this thread aloud to my DH. Hilarious!

Well, I feel like I should change my name - maybe to "Answers?" or how about "Bossy?" Maybe "UnSpeller" would be better!

Big Giant Giggly Smile,
Trinity

You all don't know how many "Broadway Musicals" I've made up in my mind while waiting for the traffic to clear, about my life with you all in the Gifted Liberation Movement. I never remember them the next day. Now that we have Confused, Questions, and Incognito I feel more like I'm living "A Chourus Line" than ever before!!!

Yes, Trinity, but it is incogNEATo........see, a play on words....Kind of like I AM a lurker, but I am also kind of Neat!!! I know, not so funny, but it is the best my mommy-drain-brain can come up with lately.

Cheers!
Incog

OOOPs ,, I mean incogNEATO as in I am "neat-o", as in somewhat cool. My family will tell you I am most definately NOT neat!

So, who's on first?

I had zero imagination when I chose my screename! (laughing now!)

Although this thread has taken a very entertaining turn, which I totally love, in all seriousness I have to say how refreshing it is to have such meaningful, intelligent ADULT conversations. What a gold mine this place is! I wish we all lived close to each other...I can only imagine what a blast that get-together would be like!

I think I'd call Trinity "Wisdom." Her answers are always so much deeper and more useful than mere "Answers".



P.S. I'm also clearly without imagination. Maybe you and I could be "Without Imagination" Tammiane? Tee-hee!

well, I was looking for Answers over on the GT thread re: the Stanford Achievement Test. I guess I'll just have to remain confused with questions, and thankfully -- incognito (not so neat-o either).

by the way (or should I say btw), what does ROFL mean?

This thread has kept me laughing!

Wisdom is a perfect name for Trinity, I agree! Yes, Kristin, without imagination is totally appropriate...either that or I can just use Lame-name! Haha!

Dottie, coffee and munchies sound great..Im on my way!

But Tammy, Lame-name is sort of clever, no? Maybe we could call you Oxymoron then? (But *never* plain "moron"!)

And kcab, the thought of your using your sister's name and causing WWIII made me laugh out loud again! Oh, I so know how that works!

((blushing, but very pleased))
Thanks you all.

I was thinking a weekend gathering of us Gifted Issues Moms would really be the thing to do. As in, leave the kiddo's home and take the weekend off!

But of course then you would see that I'm an "unsnappy dresser" and snore, and talk too fast, and we could all get overstimulation headaches together! Actually that sounds fun!
Sophia

To take our OT conversation even one step further afield...

I am a regular on a site for healthy weight loss and have made some online friends there. I have often wondered about how real meetings with such virtual buddies would play out. How many of us are in life as we seem online?

I know I'm much less organized when I speak than I am when I write--I edit a lot when I write! I talk too much. Oh, and I snore, too.

It's nice to know your real name, Sophia, though it's hard to think of you as anything but Trinity now.

Come to think of it, to introduce a religious analogy befitting the name "Trinity," I think you, Dottie and Lorel are the "trinity" of the site guiding newbies like me along the "true path" and all that. Tee-hee!

It's funny because the entire time I've been posting here (which isn't long) I've been thinking, "I could be friends with these people in real life"! It's amazing how nice and helpful everyone is on this board.

Sophia is such a beautiful name. But I agree, it is hard to think of you as anything other than "Trinity". :-)

Sophia is NOT my real name! I urge everyone (except Lorel) to protect their children's anonymity here online.

5 points to anyone who got the joke "Sophia=Wisdom"

But I thought that signing my posts Wisdom was even worse than signing in "Trinity" ((gulp))

Too funny about unchecking the edit box! I do that once in a while too! Oh Vanity! Maybe I should change my name again.

Seriously, I love my screen name. It's after the Character in my favorite movie, "The Matrix" who brought her friend back to life with a determined kiss, something many of us have had to do for our own children. I do appologise to the folks who are uncomfortable with the religious connitations. I did dabble in Feminist Spirtuality as a College Student, so for me, at this moment, "The Trinity" is the Maiden,The Mother, and The Chrone. Again, appologies.

Smiles and Giggles and Love and More Love,
Trinity

Also,
Ug - here's a new thought that a bit obsure - but here goes:
Growing up Jewish in a Christian culture, there were many aspects of Christianity that I was aware of, but not "allowed" to even think or puzzle over. So I just realized that has left me with a "repressed Christian side." Well, maybe not a whole side, but at least a rib or two (humor alert)

Anyway, Being Trinity here is so much fun because it allows the part of me that is curious about all these things to run free, and it allow me to imagine what I would have been like if I had that extra cultural support of being part of the majority culture. LOL - I'm the majority culture here, aren't I? DS11 says that all things loop around to the origin. You are right again DS11!

Anyway - that does sound like a gifted person's perspective, doesn't it?

Trinity

Trinity, I know I use my real name here, but that's because I am not permitted to use a screen name over at bella. I figure if I am "out" there I might as well be out here. I still use pseudonyms for my kiddos though, FWIW.

Yes ladies, it is wise (see, Wisdom was right again!) to use caution online. You never know who is reading and taking notes.

take care-

KCab - LOL the edit! And here's your 5 points!
So brag on!

Oh Lorel - I excused you because I figured you were on your way to becoming a "Professional" in this field. If you are heading that way, I say "Yippee!" we need your wisdom.

Smiles,
Trinity

I totally missed the Sophia/Wisdom thing! Doh! Gifted, schmifted! LOL!

And I hope I didn't offend anyone with my decidedly Christian analogy. I'm not religious, but I'm a recovering English major with a philosophy & religion double-minor. You can't use the name Trinity and not have my mind go all "Father, Son & Holy Spirit" eventually! But I realized even as I wrote it that I was potentially opening a can of worms. Sometimes I'm too "clever" (sarcasm) for my own good... I offer my sincere apologies if I've been insensitive to anyone's feelings or beliefs.

I do like the idea of the three of you as "the big three" though! It makes me smile!

And really, if I didn't uncheck the "edited" box, nearly every post I make would have that note. It would be embarrassing. And that doesn't even tell you how much I edit BEFORE I click "submit"! Call it a grad school habit, I guess...or maybe a perfectionist habit! When I talk, stuff sort of tumbles out and I repeat myself a lot. When I write, I try to keep these annoyances to a minimum.

As for online security: I don't worry too much about giving out my first name online. But never my kids' names and never our last names or specific location. But I think most people are pretty much what they seem online, especially on a site like this one. You'd have to be a pretty patient predator to get any useful identifying info here...

My own OT soapbox: Frankly, I think people are much too paranoid these days, generally speaking. Child abusers tend to abuse their own children or kids they have easy access to (baseball coach/players, piano teacher/students, uncle/nieces & nephews, etc.), not random people's children from far away. (Especially if the kids themselves are not e-mailing the predator!) It's just too easy to make kids and too hard to steal someone else's! Nowadays we know about every Amber Alert from Maine to Hawaii, so we feel that our kids are under constant assault. The reality is that if your kids are going to be taken or assaulted, it's probably going to be a relative or close friend who does it. The VAST majority of the kids on the side of the milk carton were taken by their non-custodial parent in a custody battle. I think people waste a lot of time fearing strangers for no good reason. I think it is far more risky to keep kids constantly in your sight and teach them that all strangers are out to get them. Overprotected, fearful kids are not happy, healthy kids, and they become neurotic, unhappy adults.

Stepping down...

Kriston -
I think you should be proud to edit your posts. The main point is to get our ideas across to each other, and I am sure that editing help this. So I say thank you for taking the pains to be as clear and understandible as possible. You are going to want to role model for your children that some big efforts are worth making, and then patting oneself on the back over.

As for me, well, I use the spell and grammar checker when it's availible, but I decided here a while back that the dissonance between that Wisdom of my words and the total lack of spelling awareness might be a wonderful growing lesson for someone, somewhere out there. To me it's all about how easy it is for us to disregard our intelligence, any little flaw will send us off in circles of "i must not be so smart afterall." This isn't really useful, and keeping my folk spelling intact here has really helped me be less perturbable.

Smiles,
Trinity

As for Sophia, I just finished reading a fun link about one of my sheros - http://jwa.org/discover/infocus/comedy/tucker.html
Sophie Tucker!
Sophia

Trinity, I obviously didn't get the "Sophia" reference either. I guess my FOK is decidedly lacking!!! LOL!! Does that mean I lose a few IQ points??? (((giggling)))

And Kriston - as to online predators, well, I can say that last night DS was talking about his online team at his favorite online game.

"I made a pledge to use only correct english words with proper spelling for 24 hours."
Oh, did someone dare you?
"No I made it up myself."
I'm suprised, I thought your spelling was pretty good. It must be hard to mouse click and type at the same time.
"It sure is!"
They other players are probably much older. I've heard that the average age is 34. Do they know you are 11?
"Oh no. I only tell my state. Did you know that some of my Team Members are from Alaska?"
DH - Oh sure they are from Alaska! They are probably just from down the block.
"Yes, two are from Alaska, and one is an English Major in College, and one has been in jail the last 4 months, so he hasn't been able to participate much."

Well, Kriston, I read "Protecting the Gift" and usually take your position, but my heart definitly skipped a beat here.

((Prayers)) O brave new world, That has such people in't! � The Tempest, Act V, sc. i.

((shrugs))
Trinity

I am a bit embarrassed with being included in the big three talk! I've known Trinity and Dot for ages, but I am still a relative newbie on this site. Kind of makes me feel like Uhura elbowing her way into the original Star Trek frontline as "one of the big four". Can't she see she's just a minor character?

I don't post on many boards, only lurk. Because my spelling and grammer can often contain errors. But if i did editing it would take me an hour to proofread and decide its ok enough. Some boards make fun of poor spelling and grammer, but not here. it seems safe to be a gifted adult who can't or doesn't have time to spell correctly.


Of course if i edited more I wouldn't have so many run on sentences.

Well, Dot, my oldest is a bit older than your kids, but I didn't really get heavy into the research on g-ness until seven + years ago when looking for options for my 2nd child. The whole concept of levels was new to me, and I jumped in with both feet! It is so lonely to have a PG kid and not only not have the language for that sort of difference, but also to feel unable to discuss the trials and triumphs of every day life with people who will believe you and "get" it. The internet is such a blessing in this way.

Hi all,

Before now, I have never joined or participated in any online community in any way. I almost bypassed this one, except, I liked Trinity's screen name and immediately thought of the Matrix.

It felt a little unusual for me, starting to post and read replies. It has been immensely helpful to read all the posts, stories, advice and references.

So, thanks, Trinity, for your kind replies and support. It helped me overcome some of my cybershyness.

Thanks all for your kindness and wealth of knowlege.

Incog

Eeek! Yes, I'd be pretty nervous there, too. My kids are still too young for that kind of online interaction, so that may explain some of my attitude. When they get into interactive game playing and MySpace and such, I'll definitely be more...<ahem>...concerned...

I just see other moms at the park hovering, and I think, "Really, nobody wants your kid. And if someone did, there are 20 of us moms nearby ready to jump the guy and call 911. Sit down and relax, would you?"

Once there was a <gasp> dad <gasp> playing "good guy, bad guy" with his son, and all the other boys at the park joined in. The other moms heard "bad guy" and saw the running (never mind that the kids were chasing the man, not the other way around...) and FREAKED OUT. Seriously, it was like all reason had left their heads and they went into full-on child protection mode!

I tried to reason with them: he's being pretty obvious, what with all the running around DIRECTLY in front of us...don't you think he's just playing with the kids? They're laughing and chasing him...don't you think it's a game? etc. But until they had confirmation that one of the kids was his, all the moms were just nuts about him. It was the craziest thing.

Can you imagine a predator galloping around at full tilt like that? I still think it was completely ludicrous! And that seems to be the dominant mentality in this area at least: panic about kids' safety first; think...never!

Sorry. I won't keep posting about this. I know it's totally OT! It's just one of my personal issues.

I've never heard of "Protecting the Gift." What is it?

Oh, and Lorel:

I think it's less about how long you've been here than it is about how much "sophia" you have to share with us. Some of us mostly ask questions, others mostly answer them. The big three of answers are pretty clearly Trinity, Dottie and you.

That's not to say that others' contributions, suggestions and answers are less valuable or whatever. Not at all! I've personally gotten a lot of help here from a wide variety of people. But if the three of you took a powder from the site, we'd all suffer. I think that's pretty clear.

Uhura was one of my favorite Star Trek characters, right after Spock. And Scottie...I've always had a soft spot for engineers, since my dad, best friend through school and now my DH are all engineers... I wanted Uhura's skirts to be a bit longer than they were since she had to sit in them. But I always really liked her!

As I struggle with the YSP application and read more about gifted issues (including the book Genius Denied, and postings on various websites by parents with YSP children), it appears to me that Davidson may be most concerned with children who are years ahead of their peers in their academics, rather than those who have not yet maxed out or even reached their potential (and I understand this, as those are the children who otherwise may have nowhere to go). I was wondering what other criteria they consider, particularly with respect to a 2E child (after all, they say in capital letters that the test scores are the MINIMUM CRITERIA). And assuming he is not accepted, do they help refer unsuccessful applicants to local resources? We are still trying to figure out the appropriate school situation, and the gifted part of the equation has not been and is not being addressed at all (until now, and by me, that is.)

And of course, no matter what, we are applying - the ultimate reward is well worth the application. Just a bit intimidated by the accomplishments of all the children I've read about on this board and others, whether YSP or not.

Well Questions, my three YS kids are all diagnosed 2e. Despite their challenges, they all had the appropriate scores needed to get into the program. I don't think it will violate any confidentiality agreement to say that I am quite sure there are also other 2e kids in the YS program.

But I do sympathize with families whose 2e kids are clearly way "out there" intellectually, yet have not been able to break past that minimum threshold. I am friendly with some of these people, and I see them struggle; their children could benefit so much from the YSP. In some cases, one PG kid without any disability is not enrolled because the 2e sibling would not make the cutoff. It's a tough situation. But I also understand that Davidson has to draw the line somewhere, and they are offering all these amazing services for FREE!

My two cents: If you have test scores that are borderline, but milestones and work examples that shout PG, apply via the portfolio option, with any and all disabilities clearly noted.

good luck!

BTW, we initially got the "need more information" letter about my oldest son, who has Asperger's. Although DITD wishes to help as many PG kids as possible, they flagged his app due to the AS disclosure, and would not admit him until we talked at length about how the AS affects his behavior. I had to write a letter documenting that he has never become violent. The staff are very cautious about not accepting any child who may have a tendency to do harm to others. Some kids with AS DO get violent; I can well understand their concern.

Dottie, I am very glad that you did apply for your son!

Dottie and Lorel,

Thank you both. I actually find your posts encouraging. He has the test scores for both the WISC IV and the WIAT II in one area/composite only (the other relevant areas are high but not comparable). However, without acceleration to prove it, how do I demonstrate comprehension and verbal skills except by anecdotes and recommendations? (I suppose the answer has to be by anecdote and recommendation!) And the huge discrepancy between comprehension and academic skills is exactly the educational issue we are struggling with - what do you do with a first grader who tests at basically a twelfth grade level in terms of comprehension and vocabulary, but who is still learning to read, write and spell, and who wants all sorts of advanced material read to him, but doesn't want to take the time to sound out books at his reading level? At least now, I feel better about applying. Thanks again!

Hi,

I am new to this board. Wanted to thank you all as I have found some great information here. We recently applied to DYS program and are waiting to hear.

I have a 7.7 PG daughter. She is now attending a school for the highly gifted.

Anyway, hello

Hi Questions,
I also wanted to point out that sometimes our perspectives can be pretty skewed about how "out-there" our own kids can be. Much of my time as a parent is spent reminding DS to pick up his coat off the floor, chew with his mouth closed, and brush his teeth. These are not especially interesting or remarkable conversations. And when he is "being smart" then he us just behaving like I want him to--I enjoy it, but because it's just us having a conversation I don't think much of it.

In fact by the end of each summer, I've pretty much decided DS isn't gifed any more, and then a couple weeks in to school I run into one of his teachers and their jaws are on the floor, they are so amazed with his abilities.

So I guess I'm saying that I don't trust myself to have a clear perspective on what is "years ahead." And if you have a 2E kid, it might be even harder to "know" exactly how far ahead a kid is--but kids don't get scores over 145 on two tests (even it it's "just" subtests) just by sheer luck!

There are many people who have one child in the YS program and other children who are not in the program. I know many people who do not go to the trouble or expense of applying for more than one child. Many of the benefits you receive through the YS program such as the online community and resources can serve all your children even if only one is identified. The only reason I am considering having my second child tested is that the activities at the yearly gathering are open only to YSs.

It amazes me how different siblings can be. I feel that it is important to identify and develop each child's talent. If we can not value each person for his/her individual differences within our own families how can we expect our children to value the differences in people outside of our families.

Summer

Thanks, again, everyone! For the encouragement and the advice. What a wonderful supportive community.

Hi Q (Joke: John Delancey?)
I face this exact problem, although not as extreame, it think, but the essense when DS11 was in K-2. Afterschool, I read aloud to him, lots and lots. I also borrowed books on tape from the library, from the child, YA, and Adult session, and revisited some of my favorites. I also developed that habit to listening to audio presentations of college classes, "the great courses," and "the teaching company" and DS would occasionally listen along with me if he happened to be in the car.

On DVD there are certian classics, such as Standard Deviants, Cyberkids, and Magic School bus - depending on level, and the "Nature and Science" channels.

I go back over and over in my mind, asking myself what in the world would have worked for my DS, with this particular asynchrony.

a) with a teacher who "got" him, everything would have been easier.
b) one can just wait it out, hothousing in as fun a way as possible things like typing skill, Math facts, handwriting without tears, while afterschooling in the unschooling style 3/4 of the time to try and keep the spark alive.
c) homeschool, keep an eye out for "hi-low" materials, which are designed for struggling older students, as suppliment, not great, but at least not as insulting to child's dignity.
d) create a homeschool coop of some kind
e) enroll in a school which really, really gets him
f) let him suffer along, and learn some amazing life lessons, but perhaps at a high price.
g) Love him, love him, love him. It will seem like the whole world is out to get him, and he needs as many firm allies as possible. This aspect in particular, brought up the feeling of parenting a special needs kid, for us. In a way, he had a driving need to understand the world, but was cut off from information through normal channels, as if blind, and really overrelied on me to 'interperate' for him. High Urge, low ability. KWIM?


BTW - when we applied to YSP, we had test scores and very little else. He was clearly suffering, but not clearly achieving anything, as we went the option "f" route, out of ignorance. (Joke: Where is that big chart that tells you which of your mistakes will work out for the best, and which ones are just really bad mistakes?)

Smiles,
Trinity

Hello Back

Welcome, Bianca!

We seem to have a good number of seven year old girls on this board!

How is the gifted school working out for your daughter? Are you comfortable disclosing which one it is?

best wishes-

Trinity-

I got the Q reference! Have you seen the Star Trek references on my bellaonline board? ......

Texas Summer-

Yes, you are quite correct about many families feeling very comfortable having only one child in the program. It's all relative, I suppose. Even within families, there are differences. In my family, I think oldest DS wouldn't have minded not being in the program as he did not relish the social aspects of the gatherings. But it was very hard on my dd when she wasn't yet a YS and her older brothers were in the program. DS 11 and DD 7.5 are very close friends, and that made it difficult.

Hi Lorel,

My daughter Attends The Mirman School in Los Angeles, CA. So far the experience has been great. No social issues as all the kids are intellectual peers. This was my daughter's first school experience as she refused to attend pre-K and K. She had a wonderful first grade teacher and now adores her 2nd grade teacher. She is moved up for Math. Classes are small. The kids get specialists in art, music, languages, science and drama. Sarah also works with John Hopkins University for math during summer. That has also worked nicely.

I have a small issue with the school not having a math specialist and although they are working hard on diversity they still have a long way to go, but overall it has been great.

Has anyone used the mentor program with the YSP? This is the aspect of the program that interests me the most as my daughter is interested in science and math and I would like to find a good role model/mentor to keep fostering that aspect of my daughter's education/interests.

Looking forward to getting to know all of you better.

I just wanted to say Welcome Bianca! I also have a 7yr old dd. How wonderful that your dd is able to attend a school for gifted children. Its sounds like a perfect fit for her.

Thank you Tammy and Dottie. I have been reading a lot of the old postings and learning a lot.

Hi, Everyone,

I haven't had time to respond to all of your wonderful, personal, supportive posts, but thank you, thank you, thank you. When I can, I will. But in a nutshell, I can say that a big problem with my son and school was the school itself - no understanding (or belief, for that matter) of sensory issues, no accommodations with respect to fine motor issues, and no acknowledgement of his mental abilities because he just wasn't reading or writing like the other kids. (And we spent two or three years in Trinity's "f" - wish I could take it all back. As he said the other day, "I can't believe I wasted my childhood in a school I hated." - And those are the types of comments I used to get in trouble for at school. They'd say "no 3/4/5/6 yr. old child speaks like that. You've got to stop poisoning his attitude about school. Tell him it's fun."!!!!) And he's not Asberger's or NVLD, although I think that's what his teacher was thinking because he used such big words and wasn't like the other kids. His pediatrician's response: GET HIM OUT OF THERE! And he was right. Talk about learning a hard lesson...

Best to all,

Questions
(and no, I did not get the reference. Even after I googled it, I did not recognize "Q". Now, if you were alluding to Q in James Bond movies, I'd know. Used to love all those gadgets as a kid.)

Q is only one of the most entertaining villains of all-time! So fun! Combine a god and a 2yo with no impulse-control and you get Q.

Q,

Q is a character in Star Trek Next Generation, played by John Delancy. He's sort of a Loki type... very powerful and enjoys toying with humans.

good luck!

Ooooh! I love the Loki reference! Good one! Totally on point. And it's right up my Viking-novel-writing alley.

Oh my!
You should have seen the tantrum DS had when he finally learned to ride a 2 wheeled bike! Totally melt down, and "I've wasted so many years by not learning sooner. The fun I could have been having."

It is odd to be hearing that out of a child's mouth. But these children ARE like this and deserve respect. I just have to roll my eyes at the "Tell him it's Fun" part, and I've been there many, many, many times. Sad to say. It is really beyond my understanding.

((shrug))
Trinity

Kriston-

Please tell me more about your novel writing! We're big mythology buffs here, and though Greek is a favorite source of mythos, we do enjoy Norse tales as well.

See my thread on mythology too!

I just posted there! DS6 loves mythology!

Thanks for your interest in the book. I wasn't advertising or anything. It's not done yet, so I have nothing to sell. But I do have a draft that I'm revising whenever life and home schooling don't get in the way. (Which means not very often this year!)

It's an historical novel from the POV of Eirik the Red's wife, Thjodhild (or the best I can spell that without Norse symbols...). I got interested in her, but found that while we have loads of more-or-less historically accurate tales about her family--DH, DSs, even a DD!--we know almost nothing about her. Just her parentage, her birthplace...and that she refused to sleep with her DH until he converted to Christianity...so he built her a church!

When I heard that story, I had to find out more. What an amazing woman, right?

When my research turned up no historical info or further sagas including her, I looked for fiction about her. I didn't even find any of that, though many people have written about her daughter-in-law. I realized that if I wanted to know more about her, I was going to have to be the one to write the book.

So here I am, the last person I'd have expected to write a book--writing a book! A series, in fact, spanning 3 generations and three lands! (Maybe 4, if I do a prequel about Eirik in Norway before he left for Iceland...) I'm hoping to publish, but I really feel like even if no one publishes it, I've got to keep writing. I finally found my passion. Now if only I had time to pursue it!

Editing is much less fun than writing. That's part of my problem!

Anyway, thanks for your interest. It's nice to get to talk about a true love.

Kriston-

That sounds like something I'd enjoy reading. I love historical fiction. I really enjoyed Geraldine Brooks' Year of Wonders, for instance. I just finished a thomas Hardy novel this morning, though I think he wrote about his own time period?

It is interesting that we hear so little about women of the Viking culture. I've wondered about the lack of data myself. Were the women really so insignificant?

Good luck with the writing and editing, and I hope you do find a good publisher.

Actually, the Norse were pretty darn progressive in the areas of women's rights. That's one of the reasons this topic/character appealed so strongly to me. The Icelandic Norse in particular were really ahead of their time in a surprising number of ways given the way most people think of them these days.

Women could divorce their not-so-DHs for a fairly extensive list of reasons (including abuse). Women could own and/or inherit property. Women were completely in charge of the farms when the men went abroad for pillaging, war, exploration, or banishment (the typical way to deal with crimes and feuds), and were mostly in charge of the farms when they were aroud. The women were the "keyholders" for the household, which meant they were in charge of the resources for the farms. In a time when there was a deadly famine every 20 years, preserving and then doling out the food was perhaps the most important job there was!

I could go on and on, so I'll stop. I always warn people not to ask me about my book unless they really want to know because I'll tell them! But Norse history is absolutely fascinating. Surprisingly modern in many ways, but with a twist of violence and desperation, too. Hopefully it will make for a good read!

From my fingers to some willing publisher's ears...

Hi Bianca,

I am in the process of applying to Mirman but am in desperate need of a parent's viewpoint. What do you NOT like about Mirman and what made you choose it over schools? Also, what other schools did you look at? Any input would be greatly appreciated. As it is now, I have spent more time on this than choosing a grad school ( not sure whether to laugh or cry)

Christine

Hi Christine,

This is my daughter's second year at Mirman. She is absolutely happy there. We tried the public schools for K and it lasted approximately one week and then she refused to go. When I picked up my DD from Mirman on her first day there, I swear she was almost flying with happiness. She truly has found a place where she is valued and she belongs.

We also applied to SEEDS UES (The UCLA elementary school) and PEGASUS (Newport Beach). Academically, I don't believe UES would have been able to meet my dd needs. I have a friend who has a daughter at PEGASUS and she also loves it.

I really cannot say anything bad about Mirman as it has been a great match for us. The school is very small (which my dd loves), their art, music, drama and science departments are great.

All that said, Mirman is highly structured and academically rigorous. A lot is expected from the children, but the teachers are great at giving them the tools they need. The room one teachers are specially great. The pace is faster and the material shown in more depth than it would be in a regular classroom. One of my favorite things is that room one kids are paired with a room four child (buddy system). The room four children come to the room one children's classroom once a week and read to them or show them how to make things, answer questions and just plain become a "buddy" to the younger children. The upper school kids have a similar program with the room four children.

My daughter knows she is HG, but the great thing about attending Mirman is that she doesn't have to hide it or apologize for it. She is free to be herself. She is challenged by both the teachers and her peers. It is amazing to me that with all those HG children around the level of competiveness amongst the students is actually really low. The kids cheer each other up and are very loving and caring towards each other. Last year when my dd was in room one, I was picking her up from one of her after school classes and found her playing ball in the play yard with a child who was in 4th grade and one that was in upper school (7th grade). All three of them were just three kids having fun. The age difference didn't seem to bother any of them.

The only complaint I had so far was with my dd math work. My daughter is EG in math. Since room one, she has been going up one grade in math. However, even there she wasn't being challenged. The school wasn't very receptive about moving her up another grade. However, after a few meetings they have agreed to an IEP for her in math and the upper school math teacher is helping her with more challenging work.

There is another family that started Mirman this year from Long Beach. It is a long drive!!

Good luck with your application. I know what you mean about how difficult it is to choose the right school. I am just happy I don't have to worry about it until high school!!!

Has anyone received their decision letter from YSP? Just curious if they have processed Dec. applications yet.

Nope. Last group heard around the first week of December, so assuming at least a week delay for the DITD vacation over the holidays, I figure nothing until at least the week after next. Good luck!

I have enjoyed the wait long enough Dottie....We are ready for the decision.

We actually applied in Nov and received a letter in Dec. asking us to test dd on the WISC-IV. We sent the test results and re-applied for Dec.

I guess I mispoke. We actually only had to submit the new test results not the whole application. It still has been a long wait. I have never been a very patient person

Not yet ... waiting ...

I spoke to the folks at YSP today. The Dec. applications are still "under review". I was told the decision letters were going out next week.

Good, then I can stop checking the mailbox this week ... I just want to know one way or the other!

Check your mailboxes today!! Davidson just told me the letters were mailed on Friday.
Good luck everyone.

I'm so excited for all of you who are waiting! Good luck!

I hope others got better news than us.
We didn't receive much feedback other than the WPPSI score of 146 did not meet their criteria, (although they encouraged us to apply with that score initially). They told us we can reapply in 6 months, if we get another IQ test that meets their criteria.
Curious to hear how it went for others.

Zia's mom,

I can relate; DD7 is on the cusp, I don't think her achievement scores are going to be what they need to, I'll get the hard copy of the report from the tester in a few days.
It's hard because we can all use the resources and support. There are places to find the support for as a parent, online, like here. No matter what, I'm glad I've found this forum and I hope you are too.

I

Thanks,
I am glad to have found the forum! I find the advocacy advice invaluable and the general knowledge and the ability to compare to other similar kids is so important. I am always telling my husband about something I read here.

And to Dottie's comment about "coming out", it is easy since I know my son is PG. He is a high 4, low 5 on Ruf's scale and having the right numbers on the test for Davidson doesn't change that.

I must admit though that it definitely smarts getting that rejection letter. It is human nature to wonder if we are imagining his extraordinary intelligence like we also thought he was the cutest baby in the world. Looking back on the pictures now, we know we were so biased!! He wasn't really that cute as a newborn.

So, I will take just a moment here to brag about my son, since this is the only place I can do this without fear of criticism. And like the Ben and Jerry's I am getting ready to eat, it will make me feel so much better. Even if nobody reads it.

Yesterday my adorable 5 year old played in a local chess tournament. He has been called a prodigy by most of the "experts" he encounters in chess, having played in tournaments since he was 4. He asked if for this particular tournament he could pick the division he would play in. He said he wanted really tough competition so he decided to play in the K-8 division, which would be made up of 6-8 graders. He is only Pre-K.
He won all 5 of his games and took the 1st place trophy, much to the disappointment of his opponents who did not like losing to the 5 year old. He then came home and composed and sent a few emails, telling family of his accomplishments, and then finished the night off with a few more chapters of Tom Sawyer. Best of all though, he woke up this morning and cuddled in bed with me for thirty minutes. How great is it that he can have the mind of someone almost twice his age but emotionally he can still be my little baby.
Okay, time to eat the ice cream out of the container.

I had the identical feeling when we got the letter from the YSP that said dd was not accepted (they have asked for achievement testing, which we don't have just yet). You are not alone!

In regards to your ds's chess win; thanks for sharing such an amazing accomplishment! You must be so proud!

I'm sorry his scores didn't make. He is a really smart kid and his chess achievements are amazing (I used to play competitive chess). May be WISC IV when he turns 6 will give him the scores he needs. 146 is so close.

I had to laugh when I read about the baby pictures. We were the same way.

Zia - that is such a sweet story. DS7 is still a cuddler too, I absolutely dread the day he isn't. You must be so proud of him! He's obviously a very bright, amazing little guy. Enjoy that ice cream!

My DS would LOVE to find a chess club/group.

Hi,

Got my letter today. My dd is now a
Davidson Young Scholar!!

Dottie, thank you so much for all your advice and encouragement.

Zia, I am sorry about your son, but he is very young and he seems brilliant. I would definitely re-apply when he is a bit older.

Zia's Mom, I'm so sorry you didn't get the news you were looking for today. Your son sounds incredible - I can't believe he's in first grade at 4! (That is what I read, isn't it?) I can't imagine his next test wouldn't place him where he needs to be, and quite frankly, he sounds years ahead of my very own DS (who I absolutely have to admit, was a beautiful baby, too!)

And bianc850a, a huge congratulations to you. Seemed to me you knew it was coming, and I imagine your DD must have some great scores to go with her academic success. All the best to you both. I'm sure it's a relief.

As for DS, just to show the full range of possible responses, we're one of the need more info recipients, and quite frankly, I'm not at all surprised. As I lamented earlier in this thread (at least I think it was this thread), how do I prove comprehension other than by anecdotes and recommendations? Well, the answer turns out to be by hard objective evidence. So on to part two of the application process.

Now I believe I started this thread with my first visit to this board. So let me thank all of you who have helped me learn about the YSP program and issues related to gifted children. I have to say that I read about what all of you have done with your children and how you stood up for them from the start, recognized their intelligence, and made school decisions with awe and jealousy. I wish I had known then what I know now, and I admire you for your knowledge and conviction. Thank you.

questions: I'm with you!
Bianca: Awesome!! Congrats!!

Zia's mom: Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really think you should follow the letter's suggestion and have your son re-tested in 6 months.

I

Hi Questions,

We were one of the need more info recipients last month. We were asked for additional testing. the fact that they are asking fro more info means that they feel your DS is a strong candidate.

Thanks so much for saying that, bianc850a. You don't know how much I needed to hear that!

Congratulations bianc850a on your daughter's acceptance!
And thanks to everyone who has offered kind words and encouragement, even though we didn't get in.

Just to clarify for questions, my son is actually homeschooled now. We say that loosely though since he is not of eligible age for K in the public schools, the homeschool is unofficial at this point. He was accepted to start 1st grade at a gifted school this past fall (at 4), with pullouts for reading and math to a higher grade, but we identified some serious problems with the school based on so much of what I learned here that the night before school was to begin we cancelled. I posted about this experience when it happened.
That was by far the best thing we have done for our child to date and I am so grateful for how quickly I was able to learn about the issues facing these kids and identify some serious problems at the school, looking beyond their own label that they are "a school for the highly gifted". These included unsupportive teachers, administrators who wanted to make decisions based on a child's size and handwriting, etc.
This is a good opportunity to say thanks again to everyone who weighed in and helped us make the right decision.

I meet so many parents through chess that have lived what many of you have in that it has taken them years and so many scenarios to find a tolerable solution for their child's education. They are always commenting on how great it is that I am keyed into these concerns while my son is still so young and how they wished they had known more and would have done things sooner/differently. That is the gift of this forum for many of us with younger kids.

Zia's Mom- Sorry to hear about DYS. Your son sounds amazing.

Bianca- Congrats! I am glad that sending in more information paid off for you.

Questions- Good luck on round 2!

FWIW, Zia's Mom, DS and I would trade places with you and your DS in an instant. Accomidated from age 4, with Gifted Issues Discussion board beats unaccomidated until age 10 with YSP every time. I could get jealous of Dottie, but she had two to learn from first.

DS was doing some "Other Directed Perfectionism" last night on my handling of his early years, when we actually discouraged his academic growth for fear of 'infecting him' with our 'weirdness,' and 'ruining the school experience' for him. I did try to explain that 'everything happens for a reason, and it's our job to make do with what he have, and I am so much more grateful for what we have than dissapointed over the 6ml missing from the glass.

I'm not a big fan of being blamed, but at least I know that I'm doing my pennance HERE, but standing on the hidden rocks and waving my flashlights wildly! I know that I can't go back for my own son, but I feel much, much, better that I can light the way for you and yours!

Love and More Love,
Grinty