Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Want to play "Let's wildly speculate.."

Hi all we are still waiting on our first grade ds's test results and meeting for possible grade skip and/or differentiation.

Last night I realized we have 3 more weeks of school left I had not received any further mention on the test DS was to be given or subsquent meeting. I decided emails and phone calls weren't working so I woke-up early in the morning to go in and chat with the teacher. While walking my son to class I ran into the principal, who was on her way to a faculty meeting. She told me I was on her to-do list. Since she was in a hurry and I obviously wasn't going to be able to check in with the teacher I asked if DS was tested, using what and who would be at the meeting?

Answers:
DS was tested.
DS was given end of the 2nd grade year exam she didn't name the test any idea what test that could be? and STAR math/reading.
At meeting will be her, teacher, me, dh and hopefully the GATE coordinator.

I didn't come right out and ask the results but she did say we would like to bring in the GATE coordinator to determine if he is a high acheiver or gifted. Now I must have looked incredulous at the statement, not that I am convinced that he is gifted but because those tests can't possibly determine between the two. Can they?

I ended up saying I would welcome a chance to speak with the GATE coordinator and get her professional opinion. I also hoped that there would be options available for ds once we determine that he is a high acheiver or gifted, especially if they don't recommend a grade skip. *side note* dh and I have not asked for the grade skip and have been hesitant. It was put on the table as a possible answer 6 months ago.* It was her turn to be taken by suprise, she ended up saying that they would provide something even if a grade skip would take place. But that public schools aren't well equipped to educate high acheivers. Teacher's are taught how to reach under acheivers when getting their degree and once they are in the classroom they are given various resources to help those under acheivers. High acheivers just aren't given the differentiation they need. I wanted to say No doubt, that is why I am still trying to get the accomodation's that ds needs *insert sarcastic duh smiley face here* but I only smiled and thanked her for her time.

We aren't moving any time soon. The town we live in is very small in a rural area with only title one schools. I have no choice but to continure to be a thorn in the district's side to get the accomodations ds needs. To further complicate the matters, I also have a degree in Elementary Education and hope to sub there next year while our youngest son goes to part-time preschool. If all goes well I hope to apply for a position the following year.

So any thoughts? Care to speculate on what will happen or what she means by some of her comments.

They will bend over backwards to please and demonstrate a clear understanding of gt literature. They will ask inviting questions. They will openly admit they don't have lots of students like this and will want to enlist your support. They will say your child will get a year's growth for a year's time - and they really will mean it.

Oh excuse me a minute, "hey you there, I said on the rocks - top shelf - and keep'em coming". Now where was I? :-)

LOL

Thanks for making me laugh.

I sure can sympathize with your position. We are in the exact same spot with our DD7 this year who is in 1st, but who spend 1/2 day in 2nd. We requested the grade skip for her next year to be placed into 3rd. They have never done one at the school with that faculty, there are no guidelines in place with the district, it is just up to the principal. We do have IQ testing done for her which has been shared with them so she was able to start the 1/2 day in 2nd this year.

Our school just gave her the end of year testing for 2nd grade. What this means at our school is that it is some test developed by the district to show that the children have learned all that is required of them for that grade level by the state and the district. It does not have a "formal name" as it is just used locally. I don't know much about the STAR testing. Our school also uses the SAT10 testing for all 1st and 2nd graders and she was given that as well for 1st grade. Perhaps your school was meaning they could use these tests as some sort of screening to see if addditional testing would need to be done to qualify for the gifted program. I would think that all actual gifted testing would need to be individual based versus group type testing.

As a sidenote, the speculation has been driving me crazy, as our school year is ending soon and I want answers before it is over. If there is anyway you can wait until the meeting to get your answers, it may save you some ulcers.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Cross some spare fingers for us, too, please. DD4 will be taking an end-of-K test in a couple weeks to hopefully skip K and start grade 1 in the fall.

I told her future teacher that her reading is probably above grade 1. She said "Uh-huh. We'll see."

Uh-huh.

I'm estimating her level is grade 2 right now (Nate the Great, 2nd grade textbook), but, boy, does she advance in a hurry. I see differences from week to week lately. DH hadn't read with her for 2-3 weeks until the other night, and was amazed at the difference. I presume this rate of learning is seen with others out there?

Val

I ran into the high achiever vs. gifted issue with DD7's school. When I mentioned it to the private assessor, he asked a good question.
"Why can't she be a high achiever and gifted?"

I was also going to wildly speculate that it was some sort of district developed end of year test...the kind that has none of those pesky norms to deal with.

I think certainly you can be gifted and a lower-achiever or low-achiever so why not gifted and high-achiever? After all, that's what they are testing for by giving an achievement test.

Yes. We call it first born here :-) And when I coached debate we knew there were the kids with talent, the kids who worked hard, and the talented who worked hard. Talent and hard work went head to head. Talent with hard work - untouchable. Frustrating advice we got at that point was to find activities to distract her from learning anything more. Like what? blackbox theater with no scripts?

What is seriously frustrating to me about your post is this constant looking for the weak spot, the problem, the loop hole to services. Some days I think an army of crazy and overly proud parents tried to convience schools their traditional students needed x, y, and z, and the schools all got burned. As it still seems exciting to me to be a school with that kind of opportunity. Yikes, my soapbox just split a little - time for a choir singing diet of 20 characters or less per post :-)

Sorry, I swallowed extra sassy syrup with breakfast today.

I guess it all boils down to the fact that we're fighting human nature as much as anything else. It's hard to believe in something you've never learned about, experienced, or seen. The rarity of these kids means that most individual teachers haven't encountered a HG+ child. Plus, as far as I know, schools of education don't focus a lot on giftedness.

It's possible that entire faculty at a small school may have no experience with even one child like this, much less multiple kids, which of course you need to understand individual variation. And even if someone does, how does one teacher know which colleague is familiar with high LOGs in the absence of a list somewhere?

People rely on experience to inform their opinions. So when you say "My preschooler can read at a second grade level," the likely response is skepticism. Especially from someone who's been in the business for many years, who has a ton of experience in general, but maybe no experience with someone who's ~3+ SDs above the norm.

Now don't ask me why they don't just give the kid a book and let her read it to see if the parents are making stuff up. This must hit some other area of human nature that I prefer to not consider just now.

Val

(Guess I ate too much philosophical syrup this morning.)

Hugs xoxo!

This demonstrates my idea that it's hard talking to schools because they use the same words we do, for the most part, and mean totally different things. Remember that 'Gifted' has no agreeded on definition. 'High Achiever' neither. So be very careful when you talk to ask lots of questions and take lots of notes, and ask for specific examples of what they mean by that. This is the great appeal of full grade skips:After the decision has been made, no one has to do anything new! Also, for HG and PG kids, it's the first step in getting 'credentialed' as having real educational needs that are way above the norm.

The fact that there IS a Gifted Coordinator is a good thing. We didn't have that, coming from a 'all our children are gifted'area. Try to remember that 'when you've seen one gifted child, you've seen one gifted child' and keep the conversation on what your particular child needs. The more humble districts are often more willing to listen to parents, as they have less ego to defend, but of course, not always.

Figure out with you DH in advance what you think would help your child. Partial homeschooling? Grade skip? Grade skip PLUS subject acceleration? Paricipation in the GATE pull out with older Gifted kids? Write it down in advance. After the meeting, send an email around to everyone saying what you heard them agree to. Sadly, I've walked out of happy meetings, sent the email, and gotten the response: 'Oh no, we can't actually do all that, we were just brain storming about what might help.'

Grade skips definitly have their downsides, but that don't wear me out as much as trying to 'modify' the existing system, KWIM?

Best Wishes,
Grinity

My DD6 is gifted and is a middle achiever she blends right in with the high norm on achievement test.
This made me and my DD 1st grade teacher doubt her giftedness. Her K teacher saw otherwise and convinced me to allow testing. Boy was she ever right!
I agree with Grinity that it is a good sign that they want to bring in a gifted coordinator & to take lots of notes.

Good luck!
I believe kickball is right,
she must have had a vision to see your future so clearly!

Exactly!
I think that's why we've always been lucky with DS6 (clear back when he was DS2) having his reading acknowledged--we just let people figure it out for themselves. At the preschool, when we were registering him, we said "he can read anything" and as we were doing the paperwork he was wandering around the office reading everything out loud, and by the time we got done, everybody was convinced--and going out to drag other people in to watch him read, too! He just sells it himself. If you have a kid who doesn't read everything he sees out loud, it's probably harder. It's always cracked me up when a new neighbor comes along and says "did you know he can read anything?" because he's been over meeting them and reading everything they have. LOL!

If you've got a gifted AND a high achieving child then I reckon you've one the lottery!!! Coz boy, that would make my life so much easier with my girls...

But... a child could only be high achieving if they're being appropriately challenged at school, yes? Otherwise, how would they know?

I suspect that like many school administrators they think there's a difference between someone that is truly, genuinely gifted (on their scale a child prodigy) and someone that is just bright. I would be VERY cautious of the terminology they use because it could be hiding some deep-seated philosophies about the school's real attitude to G&T kids...

jojo

...and maybe some of it is because learned underachievement is so pervasive

Thanks for the comments everyone. This board is an amazing resource and very supportive. I am still waiting on the date and time for the meeting. If I haven't heard anything by next week I will go camp out in the office till we can get one arranged.

I definiitely needed your opinions on the high acheiving and gifted comment. Honestly they haven't met my ds's needs since starting school. I was very cautious when she said it because I am not quite sure what she meant. It almost seems like she thinks he catches on quicker than other kids and understands more but wouldn't that be a postive thing? The teacher has not taught him anything at all especially since she won't offer him more than cursory work because I kept asking how and what they are teaching him.

The more I turn it around in my head the more I think they will be offering the grade skip and hoping that I won't ask for any more differentiation. We are going to embrace the grade skip if they offer it especially if I get teacher approval. I was hesitant but the more I contemplate it the more I realize they truly can't meet his needs until we can get him to more challenging work. Not sure it will be enough but better then the nothing he is getting now. I am also going to try to tap into the GATE coordinator resources. I am hoping she offers more comprehensive testing but not holding my breath.

Is there anything I am missing that I should ask for? I don't want to put me homeschooling him half days on the table yet, even though I can see this being an option in the future. I would like them to step-up and offer my son an education. I was talking to another parent about how she feels they have dumbed down expectations and how fustrated she is with it. Her daughter tried out and got on the dance team as a freshman in high school and they only expect them to keep a 2.0 average to be eligible. She was shocked and appalled at the low expectations. In our community we are told how important it is that our children do well on standardized tests so the school can get money but they don't challenge them at all because of it.

*oops* got off on a tangent. Back to my original thought. Is there anthing else I should consider asking for that I haven't thought of?

I agree Dottie I would prefer them to do some actual testing of his IQ but I am getting the distinct impression that it isn't an option to be done before the meeting. We would get independant testing ourselves but can't because of financial reason's at the moment.

The GATE coordinator talked with ds's long term sub earlier this year about how to teach him and what strategies to use here is a link to the detailed post. http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....News_and_update_about_our.html#Post31538. As far as I know she hasn't done any testing even though the principal and I glossed over it at that meeting. I might be pleasantly suprised though but when I asked about what tests were given no IQ type tests were mentioned. Ds say's he hasn't taken any tests with anybody but his teacher.

He hasn't been offered the GATE pull out program cause they don't test for GATE until recommended in 2nd grade, the grade he will be skipping. I was going to ask that he be tested for the program but wasn't sure a grade skip was or is in the cards. In essence I was waiting for this meeting to discuss it. I am flying by the seat of my pants. The principal has given at least two grade skips to students in the past three years. She is the one that instigated it. When I asked the procedure for a grade skip she has said that they give him the end of the year test that he would skip (2nd grade) then have a meeting to discuss the results including her, us parents, his current teacher and maybe the GATE coordinator.

Looking forward to your wisdom and advice Dottie. Thanks again everyone for discussing.

I TOTALLY agree. The advice here is invaluable! The thing that I realized most over the year is that I have to try not to focus on what other people think my daughter can't do. I remember leaving first grade orientatiofirst almost in tears because it seemed like her teacher didn't believe me when I told her she could read as well as she can. By the end of the first month, my girl was the class "go-to" person if the teacher was in reading or math group with others and they couldn't read a word. I know now that no matter what anyone says, if I just sit back, she'll prove herself.

[quote=Dottie]

1. Add stuff that challenges your child
2. Remove stuff that "insults" your child

[quote=Dottie]

LOVE this and will definitely keep it in mind when we have our first IEP next year!