Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional gifted scores and severe processing speed issues

hi everyone
i'm new. My DS, age 7 was diagnosed PDD-NOS at age 2 and i had the shock of my life when he had a WISC-IV that showed his FSIQ increased over 50 points from two years ago. And instead of a mix of scores in the 8 to 9 range and a FSIQ of 89, he now has:

GAI: 138
FSIQ: 119
VCI: 132
PRI: 131
WMI: 99
PSI: 83


Subtests were

block design: 12
Similarities: 13
Picture Concepts: 19 (!)
Vocabulary: 15
Matrix Reas. 14
Comprehension 18
Digit Span: 10
Symbol Search: 10
Coding: 4 (!)

The psychologist told me he suspects no PDD. He has no issues with social skills and is doing well in school with exception of math computation which is very frustrating. He has almost all the characteristics of gifted children, mostly displayed in the more "positive" way. For example, he dances ballet and plays all sports, loves music and museums, and sings on stage..

I suspect highly he is Visual-Spatial and am looking at that angle. The pysch used the term "Twice Exceptional" but admits he's not sure what the exact disability is that goes with the "gifted" piece. He is a specialist in gifted kids that i use for my Daughter who is uniformly gifted with FSIQ 147 and no history of any developmental issues. He also has a profoundly gifted grandfather and several other HG in the extended family.

Are these scores similar to what anyone out there is dealing with or can anyone think of anything that might point me to what is going on or how i can help him more (especially the processing speed).

thanks in advance

irene

First of all, I don't know anything. Some people on here do and I'm sure they'll chime in to give you real advice. In the meantime, though, I'm looking at your coding score combined with "trouble with math." Now, my son's coding was 1/2 visual and 1/2 auditory. His relatively low score surprised me because I've always thought of him as very visually-oriented. Now, I'm trying to learn about dyslexia to rule that out! You never know where this stuff's going to take you.

Could you child have SPD or an auditory or visual problem? What makes you think he's visual-spatial for example? Also, what is your child's behavior like? Attention issues, sensory seeking/avoiding, hyper, anything ringing a bell?

You're missing one subtest - Letter Number Sequence?

My son had a similar range though not quite as extreme as your son's. His lowest scores were Coding 8, SS 8, DS 7 with his top scores 18.

He is very slow processing but not as slow as his sister who has severe auditory processing problems. Math is really hard for her. It can take her up to 4 minutes to answer a 2 step math problem like 2*2*2. Talk about frustrated. Is this similar to your son's performance?

This is likely to become more of an issue for your son as gets older and you may want to ask for special ed assessment if he is already struggling with math.

What level math is he doing - multiplication and division?

Patricia

hi,
thanks everyone for taking time to reply.

here is more info.

He has no sensory issues, but very emoitional. For example, he started taking ballet after he caught me watching a pbs special on rudolf nuryev and was in tears. I asked "why are you crying" expecting him to say he wanted me to change the channel. Instead he said "i think i will never be able to dance like Rudolf". He now has several "passions" over different subject areas.

On math, he is great at the big picture but miserable at learnign his math facts, which he has spent the entire YEAR doing- just addition and subtraction.

Last week i came across a description of the Visual Spatial LEarner and "upside down brilliance" and was up all night reading as it fit him to a T. ***But I'm not sure if that means he is disabled??? or is it a learning STYLE.

His weaknesses are
-can't seem to memorize simple math computation
-has no concept of time
-disorganized
-distracted by things he sees
-hates schedules -everything has to be spontaneous.
-no interest in workbooks of any kind- even the ones they used in preschool for phonics that the other typical kids llked and the PDD kids loved
-can be overly emotional


His strenghts are
-science and social studies
-reading (went from K level to 5th grade level on acheivement test in about 8 months with no end in sight). No early reading or interest in letters.
-music and dance
-sports- can hit a baseball with pitching machine and plays in little league.

Also I am wondering if the CODING Subtest score has more to do with the CODING then the SPEED .He does meaningful things like comprehension questions very very quickly. But can't do the nonsense stuff.

any other input or suggestions appreciated.

i forgot to mention back to Patricia. Yes, I think 2*2*2 would be tough. also he gets special ed for his (possibly misdiagnosed) PDD-NOS so he gets extra time on all tests. But its just the math that it shows up on. The other ones he can be done in typical timeframe. It really bothers me because he is starting to hate math at school but loves the things we do at home.

Some of the things on your list of weaknesses (emotionality, preference for spontaneity, impatience with rote work like workbooks) I associate with giftedness and would not see as weaknesses. Rather I would see them as differences that may be advantageous or not depending on the setting.

Taking the long view, these traits are, in my opinion, advantageous. They just make him not fit in well in elementary and middle school. The older he gets the more "positive" these traits will be and as an adult they will be highly valued.

Other things you listed as weakness sound like executive function problems. Weaknesses in EF are associated with many different neurological conditions including ADHD, ASD, psychiatric conditions like early onset bipolar and dyspraxia/motor planning. It can also be developmental and he just needs time to "grow into" the skills he needs, like being organized.

Children with these difficulties tend to "grow into" their disability as they progress in school if they are not developmental artifacts. The skills associated with good executive function become more important to their academic success especially once they reach middle school and that is often the first time they are clearly identified as having problems.

Whether it's a disability or not - well from an academic point of view it is. You can see how his constellation of strengths and weaknesses are causing him problems with basic math. It may well cause him problems with reading too once he progresses to middle school.

Your observation about coding may be right on the nose. The problem with not being able to do tasks involving unfamiliar or nonsense information is that you need to be able to make sense of this kind of information when you read higher level textbooks and do math. Think about how your brain works when you see a word you don't know, especially a complex one like deoxyribonucleic acid all spelled out or a complex math problem that includes square roots and scientific notation. Or think of geometry - it has a huge amount of vocabulary to understand and recall - all the different kinds of shapes and angles. First step is to make sense of "nonsense" information - which may be very difficult for someone with the kind of problems you describe. Between needing to hold the novel information in memory while the brain searches for related information to "hook" the new info to and his slower processing speed - this becomes a very difficult task.

My son has similar problems but definitely has slow processing too. His latest psychoed eval said he had difficulty accessing material that is overlearned by most students. As I understand it, this means he does not automatically recognize and make sense of very basic information like letters and numbers. He has to go through a mechanical sort of process in his head when he sees letters and numbers to make sense of it so coping with novel information like complex new words is very difficult.

I'm not sure if this is like your son's problems but I think my advice to you would be to take the long view. I suspect that your son is going to really struggle with math facts of all kinds and, like my daughter, may never get them down. But once he gets to the level of high school his ability to see the big picture will serve him well and he can use a calculator for the basic stuff. I would make sure that his IEP calls for direct instruction in math from special ed ASAP if it is not already set up that way.

One reason for this is that you may need several years of documentation of his inability to overlearn this information despite remedial instruction in order to get accommodations and modifications like use of a calculator on high stakes testing at the high school level.

If he has problems recalling or executing multiple step directions - at school that might be division problems - then you may be looking at a language processing issue that needs speech therapy or intensive special ed support to help him learn to retain and follow directions. My daughter struggles with this and I've been told this is because of her severe auditory processing issues.

Sorry I'm so long-winded. I think I was born that way.

Good luck,

Patricia

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but when I read this, I think of a right-brain, visual-spatial learner with left-brain, sequential weaknesses. On the division, I was wondering whether you may have tried Silverman's suggestion (see page 2 of this article http://www.visualspatial.org/Articles/mthstrat.pdf )

I was wondering how effective this suggestion might be. My dd is getting to a point soon where she'll want to learn long division and I'm afraid the steps are going to be a problem.

Additionally, if steps are an an executive function task, is executive function a left-brain thing? Just thinking out loud.

Executive function is a frontal lobe thing It does not fit well within the "left vs right" brain paradigm as far as I can tell.

We have tried many different approaches and so far none have really "worked" any better than any other. And there are some things like math facts that just cannot be done any way but memorization.

Understanding, remembering and following directions/steps is a complex skill that can fail for many different reasons. EF issues is just one possible area of difficulty that may result in problems following multiple step directions. In my daughter's case the problem is auditory processing and extremely slow processing speed. These could be seen as partially EF problems but really have more to do with other aspects of cognitive function.

EF problems are difficulties with attention, control and metacognition - switching attention when you want to or need to, focusing attention for extended periods regardless of the novelty of the stimulus, controlling emotional reactions to situations, creating and maintaining order at the informational and physical level, having insight into your own mental processes. These skills develop along with the frontal lobe myelination and development as children grow up. That's why problems with EF may not become apparent until middle school when most neurotypical children's frontal lobes have developed to the point that they can do these things easily and reliably.

thanks everyone these response are intense and wonderful! lots of things to think about. The EF piece is just something i haven't come acrsoss on my own. I feel i have kind of a dumb question after all this. If he was your kid, would you push for enrichment services. Is he gifted? The gifted services become available next year, though i am unclear how kids qualify exactly. He seems to have such a thirst for higher level knowledge, however, I am afraid that his weaknesses may make it very difficult for him to keep up with the other kids and it would backfire.

also, does anyone have any idea what types of real life tasks would be associated with a very high score on picture concepts?
i'd love to have an example of types of things he could really ace.. he got a 19 (but really a 21 when i looked up his raw score in extended scale).


irene

This is from Sattler/Dumont, Assessment of Children: WISC IV and WPPSI III supplement, 2004:

"Picture concepts, a core Perceptual reasoning subtest, requires the child to look at two or three rows of pictures and then select from each row one picture that best goes together with the other selection(s) to form a concept. The task is to find a common element in the pictures that forms a category, concept, or classification... Picture concepts appears to measure abstract, categorial reasoning based on perceptual recognition processes. The task is to scan an array of pictures and determine which pictures have a common characteristics. The child first must recognize or identify each picture and then determine a quality that picture in one row shares with a picture in another row."

Not sure what that really says, but... a description of the subtest.

i'm rereading and came across this from rlsnights..

"Children with these difficulties tend to "grow into" their disability as they progress in school if they are not developmental artifacts."

can you tell me more what you mean. I am not sure if he's been "therapied" out of his PDD-NOS or if he was misdiagnosed. Is this what you are getting at.

sorry thought of this after i posted the last entry..

Does anyone have any thoughts about the fact that my DS scores are so different then 2 years ago when he was five and took the WPSSI. At that point he did not stand out in any subtest. They were all clustered in the 8 to 10 range.. with FSIQ= 89, Verbal 93, Performance 90. IS this highly unusual (see scores on my first post in the topic). or expected with kids with developmental "history"? I am thinking they should be very very interesting in two more years...

Whoa, we have many similarities. I also have a DS, age 6, who has a really low coding score, but other scores at the ceiling of the test. He also has an HG, uniformly gifted older sister. We are also in the thick of it, so I don't know if I have any great advice to share, but here is what I have so far.

DS had a WPPSI at age four with some surprisingly low scores (although not as low as yours). The psych we saw recommended having him evaluated by an OT and she diagnosed dyspraxia and fine motor issues. We did therapy for about a year, which did seem to help in many ways, but DS still has serious writing issues.

This year we had DS evaluated again and got score similar to yours. Some of the PRI and VRI scores were at the ceiling of the test, working memory was good but not gifted and processing speed, especially coding..... ouch.

The psych we worked with, someone who specializes in 2e, thought all his scores were somewhat suppressed due to the fact that DS was unwilling to really exert himself on many of the tasks, but functionally it was the best he was capable of at this time. In other words, he was capable of better, but refused to do it. She diagnosed ADHD and suspects dyslexia. She thinks that the fine motor problems contributed to the low coding score and that he might also have a visual problem, maybe convergence insufficiency. Our next step is to confirm or deny the visual problem with an evaluation by a developmental optometrist.

Here is where I am at with the placement issue. I believe that my son is gifted and also learning disabled. That means that although he has output issues, he has all the social and emotional needs of the gifted and will benefit from an academic placement that acknowledges those needs. If he was a child of average intelligence, there is no question that he would be in a regular classroom with his intellectual peers and also receiving special services for his areas of weakness. Because my son is gifted, I see no problem with him being in a gifted classroom with his intellectual peers receiving special services for his areas of weakness. The problem is getting the school to see it that way!

I guess a lot depends on the type of gifted programing offered in your area, too. If gifted services are mostly extra work sheets, then it may not be beneficial to your son. If they are offering more complex material and the opportunity to socialize with other gifted children, it might be worthwhile to pursue.

Good luck! Post if you find out anything new. It might be helpful to us since we are in a similar situation.

I was specifically talking about EF deficits which become more apparent as the child gets older.

If the psychologist thinks he's not PDD then maybe you should look at taking him back for re-assessment. Is he followed by a clinic or doctor for this?

Another option would be to look into having him participate in ASD research. That may be a way for you to get a fresh set of eyes looking at his issues.

Re: placement - I think you are wise to be cautious. Have you visited the classroom your child would be in if he were accepted into the gifted program? If not, you may want to start there and see what you think about the pace of the class, the way the teacher manages the class, and try to get a sense for whether your son would fit in OK or not.

You could also talk to the teacher about whether there are other 2E kids in her class and how they are accommodated. Perhaps he could be pulled out for math and have accommodations on homework or other aspects of class if needed without having to abandon gifted options entirely.

If there is a parent group associated with the gifted program, attend a meeting or two and chat with other parents. You may get a more realistic picture of the workload and methods/philosophy of the program this way.

ncmom2 thank you for letting me know all this about your experiences and how similar they are to mine. this board is great..i'm addicted! also i am rushing to google "convergence insufficiency" to see if it rings any other bells.

My psych did not officially diagnose anything - which we all as we feel a diagnosis made without 100% confidence would not help.. But he feels he has a combination of (unspecified) learning disability and giftedness and possible ADD. His teacher said he will have more time on teh qualifying test for the gifted program and she seems "on board" but unfortunately he gets a new teacher every year and we have to get everyone "convinced" he's bright so they will treat him that way.

His old PDD-NOS label, though it opens doors to lots of extra help, is not great because everyone at the school seems to think kids with PDD have some type of shallow/artifical intelligence and not truly gifted. We will probably pursue removing the PDD label when we have a better idea what is actually going on.

irene

irene

My ds has similar scores, and issues with basic math fact regurgitation, especially when timed. This may be somewhat a result of being 'beyond' 3+6. 2nd grade timed sheets on this were reaaaalllly frustrating. Now he's in 3rd, and we had him doing 'timezattack' on his own, he liked it, learned it and is doing great on all these worksheets. We also try to show how the comkutation part of math is just part of a larger very fun subject. So for him it has to be a combo of interest, not too much repetition, and self confidence. Math is again his favorite subject.

hey all
thansk for all the input

Last night i gave my son a bunch of montessori materials and gave him a four digit addition problem (that involved carry over) and no pen and paper. He is not anywhere near up to that in school - he is on single digit addition and subtraction!.. Well he worked on it for over an hour, smiling the whole time. And came up with the RIGHT ANSWER. When the carry over part came into play he just stared for a while and then regrouped.. He was so satisfied with himself.

I am very very happpy i finally figured this out- but also feel its going to get tough over the years to come...


irene

So we had a visit to the developmental optometrist. DS has a convergence issue that is so acute, his eyes actually were crossing when he was reading by the end of the exam. Perhaps that accounts, at least partially, for his low coding score. Don't know if this is any help to you, but for us, the next step is vision therapy, see if that clears some of the attention issues and dyslexia symptoms up.

I am hoping that my insurance will pay for a neuropsychological assessment because I think it might tell us if my son has processing speed issues and we will have more pieces of the puzzle. He has never had one of these before, he only an individual achievement test given to him by an educational psychologist almost four years ago.

My son with motor dyspraxia and handwriting issues is almost eleven and still can't write quickly and when I had him do dictation recently, he made a p backwards. I worry that this might cause him some embarrassment if he ever does this in front of other kids. He just does it once in a while, maybe one out of 50 times. I wonder if it is because he has the motor memory problems and the p is similar to a 9. I think he is still having to really think about how each letter is made when he writes and it slows him down. His cursive writing is still not as fast as printing because he has only been doing cursive for a year but I am hoping it will get faster. His cursive, actually a mix of printed capital letters and the rest cursive, looks more legible to me than his printing.

I think my son might have dysgraphia and one doctor agreed after looking at his writing sample, but he has never had OT for handwriting because in the six sessions he had over a year ago with the OT, she didn't think the handwriting was as much of an issue as his sensory issues and she wanted to work on those first. Our insurance wouldn't authorize any more OT because they won't pay for anything educational related--they say the school should pay for it--but my son can't go to the school because he is twice exceptional and there is no law requiring an appropriate education for him. So I just do the best I can do to help him, and try not to get wrapped up in how unfair this is to my child. Getting mad only takes the energy away from me that I need to help my child.

I try not to think about the therapy that everyone else seems to be able to get that my son couldn't get because we couldn't get insurance to pay and we couldn't afford it on our own.

I do feel like I continue to get better at jumping through hoops to get what he needs (although it will take months to get it) and my son and I are learning to do this together. I think learning to jump through hoops might be a better skill than some of the physical ones he needs to learn so maybe there is some good that will come from this. But my son told me my overexcitabilities become more apparent when I am hoop jumping.

There were about 5 multiplication facts that my son would sometimes miss on timed tests on the computer when he didn't practice for a while. He would sometimes go for weeks without doing math and he would have to relearn what we called his mental block math facts.

I remember memorizing charts and things like that for tests. I could keep it in my memory long enough to be able to recreate it on the test, but my son would never do this because it involves writing. He would rather use what I think is a combination of different types of memory to recall math facts and formulas and to write as little as possible. He learns so differently from me and it has been challenging for me to step back and let him figure how to do things the way that is easiest for him.

Have you ever taken your DS to a Neurobehavioral Optometrist? www.covd.org Visual perceptual issues make writing and visual memory difficult. Just a thought.

We should start a "code 5 club" for all of us with DSs with a 5 in coding and really high GAIs since there seems to be a bunch of us

Maybe this guy can cure the dysgraphia. My DS's fine motor skills, while not great, seem to be within the normal range at this point, yet he still refuses to write or draw.

Does anyone know if convergence insufficiency suppresses any subtests outside of processing speed? 15 points on the FSIQ seems like a lot to promise, but who knows.

We have managed to get OT and part of a recent psycho-edu assessment covered by our insurance. I will have to start negotiating the vision therapy next. Apparently my insurance is unwilling to pay for that, but according to the doctor's office, some of their clients are getting some coverage.

It is unfair. Unfair that we can't get testing and therapy. Unfair that our kids can't get appropriate educational accommodations.

I thought negotiating for my HG DD was difficult, but at least with her, everyone agreed that she was gifted. Her FSIQ reflected, at least somewhat, her true abilities. With DS, I am having trouble getting him accepted into the good gifted program his sis attends because of the affect the low processing speed has on his FSIQ. But this kid has more of the typical gifted social and emotional needs than his older sib and could benefit hugely from the environment there. Sigh.

So we homeschool, which is unfair to me too, because I don't actually want to homeschool. Oh well, at least we are financially able to swing it and have found a wonderful community of homeschoolers to hang out with, and for that I am grateful.

hi, i am the one who started the thread. The responses are complex and interesting. I am trying to find some common denominators.

but one thing is bothering me. I thought i was onto something when i saw the silverman "upside down brilliance" theory of the visual/spatial learner. These kids can't do math facts. And prefer the big picture. Sounds like my son. However i can't find anything to suggest that CODING in particular would be a weak subtest for them. Also it says spelling should be difficult, but he is a pretty good speller (but not great).

So then there is the visual convergence theory that seems to come with poor visual memory. "Master of None" mentioned that her son's Visual Memory tasks were poor but non-visual were ok. Does anyone know what subtests test the non-visual memory? i always thought of my son as being weak with audio processing but strong with visual perception (he got a 19 on picture concepts). Would this rule out the convergence/visual memory theory or support it somehow?

Do any of the moms with kids with low coding scores see their children as visual/spatial learners as well? Visual/Spatials seem to have the following two things in common with our "code 5 club" kids:
a) bad handwriting and writing skills
b) poor memorization of math facts

so just trying to tie some things together. the experience with this board has far surpassed my expectations. thanks

irene

my son is also a very very good reader, both comprehension, word recognition, and speed. So sounds very much like your DS, master of none. I also am not totally sold on the VSL for my DS. Fits most but not all. Actually it fits him more and more every year if i look backwards upon his development. He was diagnosed "on the spectrum" very young. Development very uneven at first, then a huge surge from age 4 to 6. One of the characteristic that silverman lists for the gifted VSL is "late bloomer" so that fits. But i think he hasn't quite "bloomed" at 7 into the full profile that fits a gifted VSL..including his block design score was not particularly high (12).. or alternatively he has some type group of LDs involving convergence, dysgraphia (his handerwriting was very slow to get started but is not that bad now), etc as described by a few of you on the board. His social skills are remarkably typical. He has always had social interest but lacked social skills. but once learned they stick. his eye contact is slow to get going and then fine or even very intense because he is so interested in "everything". Does anyone out there have a good article with a checklist of characteristic to help differentiate highly gifted from Aspergers/Autism? I would like to show it to his teacher.

irene

Verbal memory is working memory as well as sequencing. My son did well on that subtest, in the superior range.

My son definitely has convergence insufficiency, but he hit the ceiling on matrix reasoning subtest and came close on block design. His picture concepts is not as high, but still really good. I think convergence insufficiency affects how the eye team together when they are moving, i.e. reading or marking boxes on a coding test. It is probably less of a problem when they only have to look at a single picture at a time. Also, DS scored in the 80th percentile on the reading achievement test, and this is a kid whose eyes actually cross when he attempts to read long lines of type, so don't discount how well they can compensate for their deficits. They can look like they are doing "great" in a certain area compared to their age peers and still have serious issues. That is what I have found to be so tricky about this 2e thing.

I see my son as a visual-spatial and kinesthetic learner, but I have always thought there was something beyond learning style going on there. In addition to the convergence problem, he stutters and has issues with verbal fluency. His attention is not great, even outside of tasks involving visual-motor integration. So DS has issues beyond the convergence problem.

A poster on another board I read puts it this way, Learning style is a preference. You prefer to learn in a certain way, but can adapt to other styles when necessary. LD is when you can't learn in other styles. And a code 5 indicates something more serious than learning style issues to me.

On edit: I am going to put posters in this thread on my buddy list so I can check your posts and progress in the future, see if they are applicable to my DS

My son fits the VSL to a T. He has poor reading in a sequence, especially the little words that have no pictures (a, the, and, etc) He "sees" the words without all the letters (cuddle would be cddl) He says the vowels don't have any meaning, he can still read the word without them so why are they even there. His letters are incorrect more often than right "b" and "d" especially so he capitalizes them to make sure people understand. He pictures all his math in his head. He does not memorize anything. His teachers, almost of them, said he "thinks outside the box". His handwriting is fine when copying and getting better otherwise. He does have visual tracking problems which could account for all of the above.

master of none- i think you got everything on your list of qualities for these guys. The dysgraphia might be partially a fit for my DS but we've worked a lot on handwriting and its about average at this point for a boy his age. His picture drawing is very good and he does it often. He does not seem to struggle enough with pencil tasks for it to fit, but it might be part of the puzzle. Ditto on the convergence. He should not be a great reader if he has it, so i'm doubting that.

NCMom2- thank you for tracking us wiht your buddy list.

What i did find, and i've struggled whether to post this.. I googled "low coding wechsler diagnosis" and came up with an article on Scitzophrenia (sp??). Seems low coding scores is correlated (weakly but significantly) with this disorder. I'm not great with statistics so if anyone out there who has the background and is interested, pls let us know how strong the correlation is- i did not understand all the notation...While after reading and reading and reading other studies, staying up late into the night, worrying myself sick, and about the disorder in general, my fears are assuaged a bit. Since my son possibly fit the PDD spectrum early in life, i feel that is where the connection lies, as some elements of autism mimic pieces of schitzophrenia (like self-talk, which he used to do) and it does not at all mean he will get anything else later on. I also found the high IQ is rare with Schitzophrenics so that would be a good sign for our group of smarties..Also they tend to decline cognitively, especially from age 4 to 7 , which does not seem to fit our kids at all...mine had a huge IQ gain during that time.and there is a huge environmental influence/impact of negative family situations that i dont' think fits us at all either.

But why I do post this is that these articles contain a lot of really good information on what the coding subtest is measuring. I can't exactly surmise, but its not a simple skill, and Patricia's explanation of the role of "executive function" seems to be right on.

But again, if anyone knows about this connection, and can shed some light on any of this , pls help.

irene

thank you dottie, i am going to continue to look for some links. I'd heard that too (about ADHD) but could not find any studies, not that they're not out there.

Master of none, my tester said, if I understood correctly, that ADHD would probably clip IQ scores across the board. She said my DS did very well on subtests that interested him, but things he didn't like he resisted mightily. I chose a tester familiar with 2e, and she recognized what he was doing and pressed him as hard as the test would allow, but still, a number of the subtests are probably an underestimate of his true abilities, according to her. How far under, she can't tell.

My DS also got 120ish on working memory. However, he does have symptoms of ADHD. I think we need to get his visual processing issues cleared up before we can make a final decision on that. DS is inattentive a lot of the time, but maybe within normal boundaries for a high-spirited, gifted boy. His oppositional behavior and inattentiveness are only off the chart when he deals with written work. I suspect the vision training will help with that.

Renie, my DS also talks himself through tasks. During the most recent testing, the psych particularly noted this. She thought it was interesting that he talked himself through even the most complex non-verbal tasks.

I have read online that low coding score *may* indicate ADHD IF other factors are also present. My friend's DD who is ADHD and gifted, had a very low coding score w/ GAI of about 146.

Hi,
I have just joined this forum because I can't believe what I'm reading.

I have an 11 year old boy (is that DS11?) who is in a gifted program and doesn't write unless there is absolutely no other option. Also, he never did timed tests for addition or multiplication although he has no problem with the concepts and has now learned his facts because he's doing much more advanced math. He was a preemie, born at 25 weeks, no current medical conditions except poor eating habits, tested into the gifted program in 2nd grade, a voracious reader, a sponge for information of any kind, very immature for his age both physically & socially, funny as all ... But, his output isn't there.

Two years ago on the WISC-IV he had a coding score of 5, with an overall processing speed index of 83 (13th percentile). His working Memory Index is more in range (86th percentile) but is comprised of the Digit Span (98th percentile) and letter number sequencing (50th). VCI is high across the board. The psychologist who administered the test said that the mere fact of having such large discrepancies of scores would not only be extremely frustrating for him, but is an LD in and of itself. At that time she also diagnosed dysgraphia and ADHD, with a provisional diagnosis of Adjustment Disorder with Anxiety. We got a 504 plan for the dysgraphia to get the teacher off his back. She had turned him into the "bad" kid in a school with very few bad kids.

The dysgraphia doesn't exactly fit because he can form his letters really well, is naturally a good speller,but he does not even come close to expressing himself in writing the way he does verbally. A psychiatrist we saw to discuss ADHD went with Anxiety as primary diagnosis and he went on anti-anxiety meds. This helped a lot with emotional issues at school (shutting down, frustration, giving up). Then 4th grade, new teacher, better writing, but still not even close to his verbal abilities.

Now in 5th grade, at the gifted magnet school full time, the writing still isn't happening and I'm immersed in looking for the right "label"? for want of a better word. He's now on meds for ADHD but I don't see these helping much and will probably discontinue.

You've given me tons to look at: convergence insufficiency, non-sequential learner, visual spacial learner, motor planning. I can't even keep track of it all right now. But I had to write to join the club of "coding 5".

Writing back to state that our ds8 has so many of these characteristics, it is astounding to read these descriptions. Also, I wanted to post a bit about what ds' tester/psychologist has concluded.
Ds' coding was 7, not 5, but he fits this picture you guys are describing:
great speller on tests (98% on WJ Spelling subtest), doesn't pay as much attention when spelling in written work. Doesn't like to write at length, though verbal ability is supposed to be a strength. Loves to draw, does so often and well.
Not a regular Joe when it comes to interests, has to work to like what the other kids like, and definitely has to work to be liked. GAI on wisc - 95th percentile, PSI - 21st percentile.

I posted on another thread some of this. After a thorough psychoeducational assessment the Dr stated that ds is capable of very high abstract understanding, but has processing speed deficiencies which will begin to affect his ability to perform in the classroom and most especially on timed tests and that a plan to accomodate this issue must be set up with the school. He stated that some of this processing speed problem is very likely related to depression - yes this was a real shocker to us. Ds' has social issues, part of why we were there. He hates that he isn't making friends as quickly and smoothly as he wants and is ending up directing his frustrations at himself; he also has anxiety over some school stuff. Benny's post is the only one I've read where the dr mentions anxiety.
Our dr never mentioned dysgraphia, but I will state that ds' did a pegboard test which times left and right hands. His left was slightly faster than his right, although the right hand was still average. The doctor asked about left handedness in our family. Dh and I are both lefties; Dr said there are about 25% of lefties who don't have language strictly on one side of the brain, but rather on both sides (true lefties don't always write with their left hands). I don't want to go too far down this path cause it gets really fuzzy, but he said that this would indicate other subtle differences are likely in the brain as well. Great, interesting differences, but differences nonetheless. Lefties in the family anyone?
Back to the main issue - depression and anxiety over social issues. Dr recommends focused professional social skills training, and continuing to assess ds mood to make sure it is improving. If not improving after a couple months, broader therapy is recommended. Also, he has given Dh and Ds a prescription for Boy Scouts . (a place to get one on one and with groups of other kids to practice new learned social skills and to make friends). Improvement in social outlook should equal improvement in mood and general outlook for ds, and has a good possibility of alleviating some of the processing slowness.

Hope all this is of help or at least of interest.

if it helps, non-sequential = spatial, at least according to Silverman. For motor planning I'd look at OT for SPD. And of course for convergence insufficiency, see www.covd.org for some info and an optometrist who does vision therapy. Also, ocular motor problems are another subset of SPD.

Has he tried keyboarding instead of writing? Good luck!

Yes he's been doing keyboarding at school, but he hasn't really got it yet. Our older son (now 15) had terrible handwriting but really took off on his writing when he learned to keyboard - about the end of 4th grade. He wrote a book for an independent project in 6th grade and has never stopped.
My husband is a great writer and both kids have the imagination and the love of stories to do whatever they want with this. This summer we will be gone for a good portion of time (we're both teachers) and will write stories, draw pictures, swim, hike and explore. I think it is going to be exactly what we need, to get aware from the social and writing pressure of school.

I looked at convergence insufficiency and I don't think that fits. Part of SPD fit, but not enough. The spatial learner matches a lot.

I'm in a quandry right now. 11 yr old is in a gifted magnet school, about 100 kids grades 5-8. We've been in and talked to principal, two primary teachers, band teacher, about anxiety, self-esteem, dysgraphia and have had lots of support, except for the woman who teaches math. I think she's not convinced he belongs at the school. Anyway, a field trip is happening next week that involves two nights spent in a college dormitory. I'm going as a chaperone and so I have seen the room assignments. My son has been put in a room by himself - joining another room with two boys through the bathroom. An odd number of kids led to this. I hate to be the "my kid's different" kind of mom, but I think it entirely inappropriate that they chose the boy who is worried about not having friends, has anxiety, is less mature than the others, to put alone. I talked to son about it (even though the assignments are supposed to be top secret) and I think it will be okay. I just don't know if I should say more to this teacher (who was part of assigning rooms). In 5 weeks he's done with her as a teacher, but it seems so obvious to me that part of her job at a gifted school would be watching out for the kids who are "at risk" and all of these issues definitely put our son in the at risk category. My husband, high school teacher, thinks the rooming decision is inexcusable. My friends who know our son agree. How much stink do I make?

Objective opinions anyone?

benny

BTW Chris,
I think you are right on with the boy scout prescription. I teach ESL and I know that for language learning to happen, the affective filter needs to be down. I think getting your son into a social situation where he feels more successful is THE most important thing to do for a gifted kit. A lot of the other stuff will come (i believe).

And yes, your comments are of help, and of interest.

Master of none, I am beginning to feel irritable and offended when I hear words from teachers like "just needs to try harder."

I read a book this spring called "The myth of underachievement" which was very interesting, though like so much didn't tell me what to do The author made the point that no child "chooses" to fail. I know my son often chooses not to do his work but I am convinced it is because the other "choice," doing it, is more painful on some level. (and this is not done at a conscious level, if it were it would be much easier to get around.) Anxiety? overwhelmed? control? He's not just flipping off the teacher when he doesn't do well. Understanding this doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me, but a lot of teachers continue to think that he's just not paying attention, or is just stubborn.

BTW, what does a 504 for dysgraphia and anxiety look like for your son? And is the anxiety piece a part of it? We had a 504 for one year for dysgraphia and he was given some tests orally. We let it drop when he had a great teacher who accommodated naturally, painlessly, oh to go back to her! We may need to implement this again. Decisions.

Yes, I think I am seeing in your descriptions what the doctor must mean in terms of ds running into issues in school. So far so good, but it will be really hard on ds to go from straight A's because in part he has a really understanding and cool teacher who 'gets' him, to a situation where everytime he forgets something it's a big horrible deal (1st grade, 2nd grade).

We are focusing on the social skills right now, but I don't want to ignore the anxiety which I think springs from several different things. I am reading 'The Anxiety Cure for kids', it is a guide for parents and uses a metaphor of a dragon (anxiety) and a wizard which overcomes this dragon - only read a bit so far but it seems good so far.

Benny - I would absolutely make a stink about the room assignments- they should be alphabetical or something that is completely NOT related to personality/preference of the kids.
If it's a large group probably at least one child will end up not showing so that might help, but I would not count on that to happen.

This is a good question - how to approach assignments, I think I am probably thinking in terms of young kids, and working together. Sleeping overnight might need more input from the kids. Older kids I guess this figures in more. I googled on this idea, there seem to be some articles on partnering in the classroom, this was a good one:
http://www.proteacher.org/c/988_Choosing_Partners.html

And I found some articles on doing profiles for students or team mates who would room together longer term, but I really couldn't find anything for short overnight stays/younger kids...

Thanks for the link. I like the ideas for assignment partners and wish this teacher would do a little more of that.

For the trip, the kids all got to write down names of people they would like to room with (confidentially) and then two teachers did the assignments. I think they put a fair amount of thought into it. My son wrote down two girls' names. I think the teacher thought this inappropriate (duh) and told me that he didn't give her a lot of options. I pointed out to her that he may not have put boys names down because he didn't think anyone would want to room with him and it's too risky to write a name. Again, this doesn't take a lot of imagination on my part, but it seems to be too much for her.

I've told my son to take the mattress from his bunk and put it on the floor in the other room and just say "hey guys I'm bunking in here." He thinks that would be weird. I've told him it would be really normal. Apparently the adult in the next room really gets these kids, so I'm going to ask him if he can be sure that this happens. A neighbor/parent knows the two kids in the next room and says they are really nice.

So, I'm okay, my son seems okay, but I still think it's a really bad idea. The neighbor whose son is 6th grade, same school, said that he would not be able to sleep in the room alone. No way. I don't know.

Benny

hi all
i am just catching up on all the new posts. I started the thread. I wanted to add that my son also has some anxiety.. but not enought to explain "everything" just tends to hate preassure, does worse if he knows its a rush, will yell "stop rushing me" at the slightest hint of pressure.

so these are the qualities that most of the kids on this thread seem to share.

low coding score
gifted range for VCI and/or PCI
poor handwriting but not necessarily dysgraphia
poor computation skills
dislike of writing
ok with spelling (but not great, but certainly not bad enough for dysgraphia)
excellent reading and comprehension
anxiety
social awkward at times, but not enough for a Pervasive disorder (autism)
motor skills ok
possible visual/spatial learner (but not 100% fit)
speed on "strength area" tests just fine, like reading or math concepts.
distractibility (but by external stimuli, not own "stims")

are any of your kids also very interested in music and/or dance? excellent tone?
also he is extremely interested in science and history. For a first grader, these are the only real "content" subjects so i think this is interesting. Does it ring any bells?

irene

also forgot to add

how many of these kids would be described as "late bloomers".. mine had FSIQ of 89 at 4...

renie1
Yes those all fit my 11 year old except that his handwriting is neat, just labored and almost nonexistent. And he is unbelievably interested in science. History yes, but not so passionate.

Benny

I am a homeschool mom and I feel so guilty that I have said these words to my 11 year old son with motor dyspraxia, hypotonia and SPD out of frustration--"Just try harder" even though I know he is trying. He included this little phrase in a parody of me and one of our typical homeschool days. His big sister, his dad and I were at a pizza restaurant and his sister asked him how our homeschooling was going and having never been a kid to answer with only a few cliche words, he immediately went into an improv performance to show her. Afterwards, his sister told him it was really, really good and I had to agree and he definitely pointed out some problems we are having in a humorous way.

In his parody he included an imitation of me on the message board asking him questions even though I told him he could take a break--it went something like this: DS: Mom, You have to see this YouTube video I just found, its really good. Me: I'll have to look at it later. Look at this--another kid not coloring in the lines but reading chapter books in Kindergarten, I have to say something about this, What do you think about it? DS: Mom, I thought it was my break time. I would really like to enjoy my break. Me: But it will just take a minute, just tell me what you think..... He also included a scene with me criticizing his appearance and eavesdropping on a conversation with his sister and making an excuse for walking into the room when they are sharing secrets.

It was so good that he had me laughing. He has my mannerisms and typical phrases that I might use down perfectly.

The words "Just try harder" tend to come out of my mouth when I am worn down from trying to get him to finish things that are motor related--things like handwriting or piano or even getting ready to go somewhere.

My son has enough people already telling him to just try harder because he doesn't look or sound like a kid that would have these problems. For years I have been aware that he sounds smarter than I do when he speaks. If you could compare a written transcript of what he says in conversation about almost any subject and what I say, you would see that he is much more articulate than I am and you would think he is more well read than I am--but I am right there with him when he is reading a lot of what he read or watching the educational shows with him. I would wonder how he could retain so much more information and be able to come up with some really good analogies that I would have never thought of. People, especially older kids, would ask us his IQ and I didn't know because he hasn't had an IQ test, but I would say "It has to be higher than mine, and they would nod their heads in agreement."

My son would take forever to write one paragraph, but if allowed enough time, he can write in cursive legibly and he uses correct spelling and punctuation. Because he can write legibly if he does it slowly I am not sure my son still has dysgraphia. If he prints or tries to write quickly or has to write more than a paragraph, then it sure looks like dysgraphia. I don't know how I am supposed to know if he has dysgraphia or not when one doctor says he has it and the OT says handwriting is low normal, and then he has days where he can do things better than others and he is not consistent so maybe my son has dysgraphia some days and not others. I really need help to figure this out and I think we are finally going to get some answers when he is tested next month.

I think never knowing if he will be able to do some physical thing that other kids do so easily causes my son anxiety. A few years ago the doctor noticed that his heart rate went up when she said he needed to learn to ride a bicycle. I think anxiety causes his heart to beat faster. For me, this anxiety happens if I am asked to speak in front of a group. I had what may have been selective mutism as a child so I have lived with some anxiety my entire life. I want my son to overcome this anxiety that he gets any time he is asked to do anything physical.

My son hates being in a room by himself and this causes some anxiety, especially at night. He has trouble sleeping, so I sometimes worry that he will keep the other kids awake. He had a sleepover Saturday night but he didn't sleep until the next morning. Luckily one of his friends is the same way so it wasn't a problem.

My son really likes music and often finds piano music online that he wants to play, often Japanese anime music. He always picks out challenging pieces and his piano teacher lets him work on these even though they are grade levels above where he is now. It might take him longer than the average kid to learn these because of his motor learning disability, but he will keep trying until he gets it because he wants to do this and he is being given the support necessary to allow him to do this. I wish all teachers were like my son's piano teacher.

He always liked singing in musical theater but dancing was always a problem because of his motor learning disability but he was always willing to work on the dances until he got it, even though the musical theater teacher made rude comments about his dancing ability in front of the other kids. As someone with lifelong social anxiety issues, this ability to keep trying amazed me. Because he wanted to do this, he could tolerate the comments from his teacher and continue to do his best and ignore her, but I think the friends he had in the group provided the support he needed to deal with her.

My son loves science and history and chose another history encyclopedia for his birthday. We have plenty of science encyclopedias and books already. We are doing a decade study and one of his books has a lot of info about the science discoveries that were made each year and we often look up more information when the book only leaves my son with more questions. He chose a science encyclopedia for his reading book in our first year of homeschooling when he was six and I had another homeschool mom look at me like I was crazy when I told her about this so I learned to not say anything to anyone about what we were using, except to my special ed teacher friend and mom of two of my son's best friends.

"Because he can write legibly if he does it slowly I am not sure my son still has dysgraphia."

Lori, This has been the issue I have had with my son,11. When he was diagnosed with dysgraphia at 9 I was confused because his handwriting is not messy; he's just slow and "refuses" to write. He says it's hard, but when I ask him why he reverts to "I don't know." At the time of the diagnosis the psychologist said that dysgraphia is not always just handwriting. It is something in the process of getting the words to the paper. Now going back and looking at the report from 2 years ago it makes more sense to me, but I haven't found literature to explain this aspect of dysgraphia. The paragaph my son wrote yesterday about the myth of the contellation Cancer, was what I would consider 2nd grade level (except with good spelling). If I ask him to tell me the story he can go on in great detail, as I'm sure you can imagine. So, it doesn't seem to involve short term memory, he just doesn't write. Does this ring true with you?

BTW - I think if YOU tell your son to try harder, that's different than a teacher telling a parent that the child is not trying hard. How does she know how hard something is for him? I do try to say things like, just keep focusing a little longer, or don't stop trying yet, to acknowledge that there is and has been effort.

That sounds similar to my son. At Cub Scouts when he was still in Webelos earlier this year, he had to fill out worksheets and I watched all the other boys quickly filling out the sheets with no problem but I couldn't see what they said or anything else, just that they were writing a lot more than my son. My son looked like he was trying to hide his writing and when I looked at it he used very short phrases to answer the questions with as few words as possible. He printed instead of using cursive because that was what all the other kids were doing and his handwriting looked like that of a much younger child, so they let me act as a scribe for him and let him finish at home when most of the other kids were able to finish in the hour they had. There were no lines on the paper and his handwriting and his handwriting is worse without lined paper. This would definitely be a problem for him if he were in school. He can type but there is no way he can carry a computer around with him everywhere. Even when he is allowed to type he doesn't want to write and I haven't tried to force him to write more than just a paragraph or two in emails to his sister or to friends. I am not sure what to do about it. I have him practice handwriting a little even during the summer months and that hasn't helped with speed or the amount of writing he can do. I know this causes some anxiety for my son and I wish I knew what to do about it. I am hoping to find some answers when my son is tested next month.

My son's memory, with the exception of motor memory, has always been very good. Definitely better than mine. He watches educational videos and takes online tests and he always does very well on these. If he takes a multiple choice test over what he reads, he always does very well. I remember watching him play some typing and spelling game where a word or phrase were flashed on the screen and he had to type the word using correct spelling from memory. I don't think he had seen some of the words before but he could spell them correctly or get close without having had time to really think about it. So his memory for words is excellent and he is better than I am on the brain age games involving quick number memorization. He and his dad are both really good at this.

What if you could find something that transcribed what you said into little ribbons of paper with sticky backs? That would help with worksheets.

I imagine you could find a bluetooth enabled ribbon printer and then write an iphone app to use VR technology to drive the printer.

Maybe this is a bunny trail, maybe not.

Ds8 loves science, social studies is his favorite some of the time, some of the time it's math - despite the math fact issues he's had in the past. He takes dance class, has since he was 4. He quit dance one year but came back to it after seeing the Nutcracker when he was 6 or so.
As far as content subjects, contextless/rote work is sort of a non-starter with ds - subjects where you really do stuff or see things in action or apply ideas are much more his cup of tea. I have heard this referred to as 'meaningful work'.

At six, my scores on sections of that test ranged from 140 to 18, so I understand this issue. OT did help a lot, and my lowest scores have risen over the last ten years. One thing you should watch out for is teachers who think that a "smart kid" who has trouble with some things isn't trying. Sometimes well meaning teachers, especially older ones who don�t believe in or weren�t trained to deal with LD and things of that ilk, can be dangerous to twice exceptional kids. I had one of those when I was six. She had the best of intentions, but she decided I was just lazy when I couldn�t learn to read and write. She pushed me until I broke. I became the only first grader in my school depressed to the point of being suicidal.

I have learned more on this message board than from the doctors we saw. The inconsistent written work is what I saw with my son and this is probably why one doctor said dysgraphia but another said low normal. But then I think motor dyspraxia is the same way, causing inconsistent performance in motor related activities like writing or piano or dance. All I was told by the developmental pediatrician was that if I made him practice enough my son could grow new neural connections and he would improve. He did improve a little but it has always been lots of work for just a little improvement and I was left feeling like it was my fault when he didn't improve as much as I thought he should and this led to more anxiety for both of us. I hated when he asked me if I even liked him. He thought I was looking at him like he was a big mix of problems that I needed to fix when I should just accept his differences. But I had "forming new neural connections" stuck in my mind and couldn't let go. I found motor dyspraxia and dysgraphia hard to explain to teachers and scout leaders. I felt they didn't believe me sometimes and thought I was just making excuses for him. I don't have anything in writing from a doctor explaining my son's difficulties. The developmental pediatrician we saw didn't seem to have any experience with kids like mine. So we decided to wait for months to see a doctor at a child study center and since the doctor also teaches other doctors and is supposed to be an expert in some of my son's issues I think we might finally get answers.

I always thought it was unfair to give kids with dysgraphia timed pencil and paper tests. My son would make a much higher score on any test he takes on the computer. Does he suddenly become smarter when he's taking tests on the computer? I don't think so. But on paper his mild disability might make him appear to be less smart, like on the spelling portion of the WIAT where he had to write the words and he quit when his hands got tired. That score reflected not his actual spelling level but his motor ability, yet he was stuck with that score. The tester said he thought he would have scored even higher than several grade levels ahead on the math portion if he would have used a pencil and paper instead of trying to do everything with mental math, but the dysgraphia made him reluctant to use pencil and paper. I made my son spend a lot of time trying to get to the point where he write out the multi-digit long division problems and keep those columns straight even though he got math concepts quickly and easily and was able to come up with his own way of getting the answers with less writing. I finally let him use a calculator, while continuing to use mental math on educational computer games, and I should have let him do this a long time ago. I don't use a pencil and paper to figure out 9854.85 divided by 23.8. I grab a calculator. But I thought I needed to make him do this by hand because he would have to do this if he ever went back to our public school. My anxiety over this got in the way of my common sense. I finally told my husband if something happened to me, he would have to take over homeschooling.

That is so sad and it makes me angry. I think too many teachers at our public school have this attitude toward twice exceptional kids. I am thankful to the first grade teacher who made me understand that sending my son to our public school would almost be like child abuse and that I would have to homeschool. She didn't really even know me. She had no way of knowing if I could homeschool my child. She told me I could and I had to do it and I did.

I know I was impatient with my son a few times and told him to just try harder, but he knows I am trying to help him and most of the time we have fun learning together and that makes up for the bad times.

I applaud you for jumping in! When he was 6, I thought homeschooling would be impossible, and a bad idea for us. Now at 11, I can see we may be there by next year. My job outside the home may make the situation unusual, but then we have an unusual situation!


Sometimes I wonder if I try to intervene too much and then your comments remind me of why I'm doing this! Thanks for sharing. Please, keep talking and educating people about this! I don't think a lot of people really believe that a six year old could feel that depressed.

And master of none - [/b]Disorder of Written Expression![b] Those are the words I've been searching for!

One more comment - on another thread I started on VLBW babies I posted this link. For those interested, it discusses the effect of pain in early childhood on the development of the brain. I don't know how many of your kids had multiple medical interventions, but this really helps explain what I think my son is experiencing. Disorder of Written Expression, ADHD, and then add in what seem to be "overreaction" to any perceived threat of discomfort and/or pain.

http://www.nature.com/jp/journal/v23/n8/full/7211010a.html

Thanks everyone! This has been quite a week of research for me! I'll still be around, but probably a little less obsessive for a while.

Benny

Someone was kind enough to refer me to this old thread, and I would now like to revive it. The profile on the first two pages of this thread fits my ds7 perfectly. It would seem that NCmom2 and I have the same child.

If any of the OP's would be willing to share what has transpired in the two years since this thread was started, I would very much appreciate it.

Were any (new) diagnoses made after this time? Any therapies or techniques discovered that you found especially helpful? Have your child's issues improved, worsened, stayed the same, or morphed into something new?

TIA

Mom: Check out my thread on Kinetic Konnections.

BTW, I worked at a charter school for a couple of years - every kid I tested for sped was gifted with low processing speed. A very fustrating learning disability. One of the recommendations I always make is "Have the student focus on improving the quality of shorter assignments."

Good thing I clicked the "watch topic" button on this thread. It was funny getting a notification on posts from several years ago

My DS is doing well. We did vision therapy for a year at great expense and effort. It did seem to help some. I don't see a date stamp on the original thread, so I don't totally remember where we were in DS's educational timeline at that point. We homeschooled for K, then sent him to a charter school for 1st. He just started 3rd at the same school and seems happy and reasonably challenged.

The school we ended up sending him to is based on an experiential educational philosophy. They do lots of hands on learning, PE, drama and music. The classrooms are multi-age and all academic subjects are ability grouped. The philosophy is very focused on seeing the whole child, seeing the individual child. DS has an IEP for his reading and writing, sees the OT once a week and has a two year grade skip for math. He plays trumpet in the school band and had a speaking part in last years play. I think he is happy. I have his sister in a serious full day gifted program. I occasionally wonder about moving him over there, but I think the output demands are too high. I did finally make them accept the his GAI scores and offer him a spot last year. But it was the PRINCIPAL of the thing. He is just as gifted as his sis, he just expresses it differently. I think they were relieved when I declined the spot.

We started meds for the ADHD last spring and they really, really help. I felt we had done behavior modification and therapy out the wazoo and he was still not really reading and having behavior problems nearly every day at school. After the meds, he never got another red or yellow on the behavior log and his reading jumped a year or maybe a year and half. Dunno if it was the meds, or if he was ready to make the leap, but he was suddenly a much happier, successful student. He has no side effects on the meds. He is the same vibrant, creative boy he always was, just able to focus better. They worked so well I am considering trying them.

So it is good. It has been hard work getting him to where he is, for both him and me. But I feel like we are in a good place for now.

How is it going for you DS? Is he at a regular school or do you homeschool?

Thanks for that input. We homeschool and that's what we've always done, but in January when he was re-tested, the psych really wanted us to push him to do more at one sitting. I questioned this since it was working for us, but he really thought we should push him more, but only a little at a time... stretch him in small increments, I guess.



Sorry for chopping your message to bits, NCmom2. Thanks so much for that reply. It really sounds as if you've done the hard work and that it's paying off. Your son's school sounds great. I'm really glad to hear that he's settling in and that he's happy.

I suspected that my ds had convergence insufficiency when he started covering one eye while reading. (I have it,too, so it jumped out at me.) He started wearing glasses two weeks ago, and we're trying some at-home vision therapy. I hope we see some improvement. The eye doc said, "He is really smart. He's compensated so well." I didn't get into the particulars of his smartness, but that compensating thing is what concerns me all the way around. I can see how excellent he is at compensating in all kinds of things. So far it seems as if this is going to work in his favor, but it has also hidden things from us that have caused a lot of strain and stress in the earlier years.

We do homeschool and I'm thankful for that. I'm just trying to figure out how to compact his curriculum right now, as we pull our own materials together because of issues with asynchrony and other glitches. These little glitches that pop up as we continue to school are so tiring because there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to them much of the time. That's what I was so excited to read the first few pages of this thread. Another huge issue for us that we are geographically isolated and do not have easy access to doctors, services, and activities. So, I spend hours online trying to mine information from others, and then I experiment and see if it's going to work for us.

In the past few months I've seen changes in my ds that make me think that things are taking a turn for the better; your post gives me hope that we'll get this figured out. Thanks!

No new diagnosis here, my ds didn't have a super high gai when tested a few years back, but the descriptions fit him, and of course many of the frustrations of being able to understand tons of stuff but only spew things back at fairly slow speeds.

One major thing we tried was just bypassing the math curriculum which was massively repetitive and disastrously discouraging for him. We did online algebra last year with him, and while he wasn't over the moon about it, he didn't fight tooth and nail when I asked him to do a few lessons. He REALLY appreciated how quickly he could move through the coursework, do a few problems and move onto another new concept. I appreciated how it sort of helped clarify for him that he is more than capable in that area, and way more capable than the school could see.

I'm glad to hear this. I tried doing this with our regular curriculum by skipping over the things that I knew were too repetitive. It helped a bit, but not a lot. I noticed that he liked doing Khan Academy when we played around with it, so I just started an online program with him. It's way too early to tell, but he immediately loved the idea that he could work on a concept, master it quickly, and move on. We'll see.

I just found this thread. I am having many of the same issues with my DS (age 6, just finishing kindergarten)... His coding score was 4 on the WISC!!!

I am exploring dysgraphia (he is reading above grade level and scored "average" on spelling and is above grade level in math too. But I am concerned is smart enough to compensate - I think he is hiding a disability and I fear it will catch up to him and I think it is possibly surpressing his WISC scores). I am getting further tests done by a pediatric neuropsych... I am not sure how good she is but she accepts our insurance, has good credientials and DS likes here so we went with her.... She came up with a battery of tests to specifically test for dysgraphia. I am also taking him for a developmental eye exam ( i suspect he may need vision therapy and have for well-over a year now) . We'll see what these results yield.


I am really concerned for my son... I think he is gifted but *something* is wrong ... I am really hoping it is something that (a) we figure out soon and (b) is easily addressed/treated,ect . I am really worried about him and feel lost.

I hope that some of the stuff you read in this thread sounded like your son. Hopefully as the vision issues clear he'll bounce ahead.

Welcome Marytheres! Pull up a cozy chair...gifted comes in all shapes and flavors. Good luck with the eval!

Smiles,
Grinity

The neuropsych is a great place to start. It was a huge help for us. Just understanding a bit of what DS's challenges are helped the entire family dynamic. DS is nine now. He is doing really, really well. His MAP achievement scores were through the roof this year, 99th percentile in reading and off the charts for math. He still struggles with writing, both the physical and the mental, but other than that appears to be compensating well and happily for many of his issues. He is such a changed kid that I am considering having a second round of testing this fall to determine what we should do for middle school.

I felt really lost and confused starting out too. But I learned a lot from reading books and articles, from interacting online with other parents having the same issues and from teachers, doctors and therapists who help my child. Hope the testing gives you some answers!

Thanks for the warm welcome! NCmom2 - so glad to hear that your DS is doing well and is happy! Gives me hope that this will all turn out okay for us too!