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    #4584 11/17/07 02:07 PM
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    cym Offline OP
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    I've been debating about whether to ask this or not, but decided to see what your opinions are. DS11 is a nice kid...possibly too nice. He worries about "making waves" and opts not to voice concerns. When offered a ride home, he politely declines because he doesn't want to impose (and then rides the city bus--long trip). He will go and hang out with the neighbor kids even though he doesn't want to because he's afraid of offending them. I don't know if this is going to be his grownup personality, but I worry about him. Anyone ever deal with this?

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    If he's being mistreated or imposed upon, will he speak up for himself, or is he a complete doormat?

    Not wanting to put others out isn't so bad (though it's certainly worth a conversation or two given how far he's going with this...); allowing himself to be abused is something else entirely. A lot more serious!


    Kriston
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    I understand your concerns and I think they are valid.

    At the risk of sounding cynical, I have come to realize that many other parents do not work to instill the same values into their kids as we do. I am not referring to religious beliefs or political opinions. I am referring to the general attributes of a strong character including honesty, responsibly, concern for others, and standing up for what is right, even when it is uncomfortable to do so (integrity).

    DS11 often stands alone.

    We are acquainted with parents who make no apologies for the fact that they are teaching their sons (and daughters) to be aggressive, to posture themselves physically or verbally in a group so as to achieve dominance. DS is just assertive enough to threaten kids like that. They are smart, but ds is highly gifted. They are strong athletes, but ds is almost as good or comparable. They are mean to ds, but he tries to brush it off or asks for an explanation for their actions. If they happen to redirect their inappropriate aggression towards someone else, he will feel compelled to intervene.

    So I�ve made him out to be a martyr. He�s not a saint, but I do wonder if his strong character (I can write that with a straight face) will impede his success in life given that so many people value power, position, influence, wealth (or in some cases, the appearance of wealth) over high moral reasoning.


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    acs Offline
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    I know some adults who have these traits. An extreme example is a gentleman we invited to Thanksgiving dinner--he brought a cheese ball and apple cider to contribute to the meal and then that was all he ate!! He said he knew we wanted leftovers and he didn't want to diminish the number we had. I have no idea what caused him to be this way and whether he was that way as kid. I certainly don't know what his parents could have done to help him.

    But I will just mention what I want to tell my friends who have these tendencies and maybe it is something that you could mention to your child. Our culture does emphasize independence and we often are able to do things by ourselves (like taking the bus instead of accepting a ride), but people enjoy helping other people. The experience of everyday give-and-take connects them to each other and creates a functioning community. People who cannot receive help, but only give it, are unable to fully participate in the interconnection of the world.

    As I wrote this I thought of some questions that might be helpful to think about:
    Is there some reason he might not want to ride with certain people and by saying no to *all* of them avoids having to take a ride from *some* of them?
    Is there something in the family dynamics that makes him want to assert his independence--want to prove he can do it without help?
    Does he feel that "nice" things usually come with strings attached? When he accepts a gift does he think he will be asked to do something he doesn't like in return?
    Does he feel like he is worthy to receive a gift? Does he worry that he will be unable to reciprocate, even if he wants to?

    These at least are some of the questions I wonder about in my adult friends; although i have never had the nerve to actually ask them!!

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    cym Offline OP
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    Thank you all for your input and comments.

    Dottie, perhaps DS does lack assertiveness or maybe he wants everyone to like him. I don't know if I understand him entirely, but I do think he's very sensitive. At birth, the nurse who helped deliver him called him an "old soul" which I recall when I've had a conversation with him that seems like I'm talking to a grown up friend rather than my 11 yr old. Great wit, sophisticated insight.

    Maybe it's what delbows says--he has integrity (I really never thought of it that way, but it's such an intriguing concept, and I agree it's a rarity these days). He wants everyone to be happy, tries to stop any mean-spiritness at school to other children, worries about them, but is torn about alienating the teasers. No one is mean to him--he's very popular, always picked first for teams, voted representative for the class, etc...but he often will tell me small injustices that happen to other children (teasing or a kid being rebuked for not handing in work) that bother him. My other kids would never report these details, or would never be concerned because they weren't involved. DS11 comes home with homework because he spent class time helping other kids ""who would never have been able to do it." Does this sound healthy to you?

    I guess I've been a little worried about the "doormat" Kriston. I don't want to squelch his caring for others, but I don't want him to lose sight of himself in the mix. At home he doesn't have any problem standing up to his younger brothers (dominating) but he definitely can be submissive to DS13.

    acs, you ask great questions and I actually asked him about the ride home. He explained that he wanted to save up that favor for when he really needed it, instead of just any old time. He doesn't have anything against the 2 moms who have offered rides and in fact their kids are his favorite friends. The second question about family dynamics is interesting to me because I always joke about how, as a 3 yr old he'd climb on stools, opening cabinets to fix his own sandwich rather than accept my offer to do it. He didn't speak until late-- about 3 yrs old actually--so maybe his independence was from not being able to communicate. (Needless to say, we were pleasantly surprised when he scored very high on IQ test at age 5)

    DH says DS is still the same as he was as a baby--his brother would repeatedly push him over and he'd lay on the ground smiling.

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    acs Offline
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    It's odd because the men I know who are "too nice" are highly gifted and also come from families with a lot of boys. I don't know if that is cooincidence or not. I wonder if it is some combination of very high empathy levels and self-protective "pack" behavior. It's better to not upset the alpha-male, better to not ask for help, better to roll over and laugh than fight back. And being very empathic, they over-respond to the hierarchical situation. How's that for unsubstantiated pop-sociology?!

    DH is much like this, actually, and I benefit from it all the time--he is very accomadating. But sometimes it takes its toll on him emotionally. Based just on him, I would say that it wouldn't hurt to help teach him how to accept favors (not just give give give) all the time, learn to trust other people, and practice saying no to unreasonable requests.

    #4631 11/19/07 08:37 AM
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    True confessions time: even as an adult, I sometimes still debate with myself about whether to accept favors or not. I once ticked off my boss (unintentionally) because she wanted to use her AAA membership to help me when my car conked out and I refused. Then there's the question of strings attached or not. I don't like to owe people anything.

    Maybe this is a more common concern than might be obvious at first...especially for the GT crowd...


    Kriston
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    Wow, oh wow, oh wow!!! I never thought about this as being part of being gifted!! LOL!!!! I never like to accept anything from anyone as I always want to "do it myself". I always see potential strings that I might not want, or I don't want to impose, or as Dottie said, I feel "unworthy". It's like when I was back in school and people wanted to be my partner because I would get everything done and they could just coast on my coat tails. I learned to not like partnerships and would just rather do it myself. Very interesting. I came on here to learn about my child and I'm learning all kinds of stuff about me!!! :-)

    #4646 11/19/07 11:17 AM
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    I've read somewhere that the GT tend to be hyperaware of this sort of social obligation thing.

    It's funny because in other social news, I don't "speak" passive-aggressive at all--I seem to have some sort of missing neurons or something so that I don't realize passive-aggressive behavior until it's too late and the person is FURIOUS. Since p-a is the complete M.O. of my parents, this failing on my part makes for some serious problems!

    But come to think of it, maybe that's why I avoid those social debts in the first place. No obligations, less chance of unintentionally angering someone...


    Kriston

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