Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy I ticked off the teacher. What do I do now?

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I think one of my biggest fears (with regards to dd's education) is not having a teacher recognize dd's giftedness. So I can relate to you feeling uncomfortable at the teachers reactions to your concerns at that initial meeting. You know what he's capable of and what an uphill battle to feel like you have to "prove" it to a teacher.

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with addressing issues that are of concern to you. You should be able to tell his teacher that your son isn't challenged, is bored, etc. And I think the teacher should take those concerns seriously, not personally.

As far as the math is concerned; It is good that the teacher makes him show his work and catches ds's careless calculation errors. I wonder if your son is making those errors because a) its boring him and he doesn't care or b) he is going quickly and its not concerned with "how" he got his answer. Either way the teacher should not degrade him for it but I do agree that he should be correcting ds's errors.

There is no way I would stand for a teacher making a demeaning remark to my child. They're supposed to be the adult and its inexcusable. I would definately address that with him and the principal. As frustrated as your son is, even as his dislike is showing, it never excuses a teacher from making such a response TO your child.

Maybe others here will have some other suggestions as to how to handle this but IMO I would not let it lie as it is. Your son is unhappy and frustrated and you certainly don't want him to turn away from learning and from school in general.

Wow! I'm sorry that this has happened to you. That teacher was way out of line saying that your son isn't that bright.

I am a math teacher (gifted high school), and I would say that the teacher is partly right about the math. I don't know what kinds of mistakes your DS is making, but it's VERY important to be able to communicate mathematically. This includes showing (via some steps) or explaining how one arrives at an answer. Many people think that math is just about arriving at an answer, but math is a process that combines logic with verbal skills, too. Proving theorems, for instance, requires effective communication. I'm not saying that proof writing is the focus here; I'm just trying to illustrate a point. Even an engineer must be able to justify/explain why his/her bridge design is better than another. A statistician must be able to interpret a p-value. This involves mathematical communication.

In light of this, I still think the teacher was way out of line and should be trying to encourage (not discourage) your son. It's the teacher's responsibility to convey to your son WHY he needs to show more work or use correct units. An effective teacher can do this without making a student feel as though he's being treated unfairly or that he's not smart.

Some teachers enjoy GT kids.

Some are exasperated by them, but appreciate their academic curiosity and drive.
(My son had/has some great teachers who fit this category.)

Some tolerate them with no recognition of their aptitude.

Some cut them down verbally.

Some abuse their power by manipulating grades so a kid appears deficient in some area/s
This may include:
Inequitable nit picking
Unexpected heavy weight assigned for whatever the child performed poorly on
Ignoring established parameters (such as end of grading period)
Changing the �rules� mid-stream
With-holding pertinent information
Lying about �missing� work to lower over-all average
Unknown or convoluted grading matrixes

If there has been a CHANGE (since your conversation) in the way this teacher grades all the math tests, or if he only deducts points for missing $ signs on your son�s tests, then you are probably dealing with the last example. A pattern in behavior is the best indicator.

BTW, my work involves defining and identifying work-place disparate treatment (which really isn�t as subjective as most people imagine) and recommending best practices to reduce actual or perceived discrimination. Kids can be especially vunerable to "bad apple" teachers.

Unfortunately, parents often do not address the innappropriate actions for fear of reprisal which is a very real possibility with a true "bully" teacher.

If you are afraid (for your son) to confront the teacher or principle, just record the occurence in case the situation continues of escalates. There is a possibily that the teacher will realize his angry reaction and stop it. I wouldn't hold my breath for an appology though.

Hi CFK,
I don't know what to reccomend, but urge you to keep dis-ignoring! It's important for children to learn to show process, and that won't happen until they are learning material where there is a legitimate need to do this - if they are a big picture thinker and "just have" to do things for a reason. Apparently there are many many people for whom "because I said so" is plenty enough reason, but this type of attitude never stops amazing me.

Are you ready to homeschool him, at least until the end of the year? I think you can use this as an excuse to do what is in your heart, if in fact, that is what is in your heart.

((hugs))
Trinity

Thanks for your logical post, delbows! That really clarifies things, doesn't it? This is another one I'm saving for later...

Dear CFK,

I feel very strongly about your situation because it sounds like what recently happened to my DS9. DS9 is very mathematically able, knowing his times tables at 3, and everything in between. At 7, his IEP said he'd have Algebra; then again at 8. The teacher, who I really adore and respect, said he was pushing the limits of her math ability. It has always been OK because he had another math whiz in his class, they'd work together, and go through accelerated math and ALEKS. This year the boy skipped a grade to middle school and DS9 was teamed with the next best kid in the class. He started coming home with 80's and once a 50, all due to complete carelessness. I KNEW he knew the material (I've heard high IQ kids actually start Un-learning after too much repetition) but his sole goal was to get it done before the end of school so he didn't have to take it home. Plus he was disgusted, bored, etc. I met with the teacher with full chronology about all the guarantees in IEPs from yrs ago and told her specifically (and probably too emotionally) that I wanted him to be using the high school Alg 1 book. She said she'd request it. The district denied it--they're worried what they'll be able to do in HS I think. DS continued to be careless and I recently signed him up for AoPS Algebra course (Art of Problem Solving). I'm also working with my DS11 on Algebra who is PG, but the difference was AMAZING. DS9 grasps everything. He completely gets it. Much faster and thoroughly and with tremendous accuracy than his older brothers. He's so much happier and can go through the in-class stuff they do to prepare for grade-level state testing without complaint and with much fewer errors.

Long story to say that I believe your son is bored and you should take it into your own hands, if the guy doesn't recognize it and accelerate (maybe ask him to try giving him advanced work as an experiment). I'm trying to get the middle school where DS will go next year to let him take an online course at school during math time--maybe that's something for your DS?

On a side issue, I think proofs are important in math--we've all done them--but the requirements I've seen are completely inappropriate for highly gifted+ students. I feel like school has "trained" my DS9 like a puppet with showing his work, so that instead of instant answers to complex problems he was able to do a couple years ago, it takes him 5 minutes to go through all the steps and write it all down. I HATE it. Talk about stamping out drive and talent. I agree with Dottie--it's overkill. IEPs for PG kids should all have something about minimizing (or eliminating) repetition of lessons, and only a minimal amount of proofs (1 in 10?).

My guess is that no matter how technically perfect your son becomes in this class, this teacher will still find something to nitpick. Ordinarily your comments at the meeting probably would not have been offensive but this teacher was already primed to be offended.

I've come to realize that what I say or do is unlikely to change people's preconceived ideas.

Cathy

If your DS feels like he's doing busy work, then there's a bigger problem than just a rude teacher. That teacher needs to find a way to give your DS more challenging problems that require real thought. You've really got a fight on your hands. Good luck.

Some teachers are touchy about giftedness regardless of how you approach it with them.

My gut feeling in this case would be to address the issues with teacher. I'd give in on the $ sign, but carelessness can be indicative of lack of challenge. Introducing rigor might show a reduction in those errors.

If you think it's overkill, then something's wrong with the way it's being taught. Math is about so much more than getting the right answer and getting it fast. It's a way of thinking, and it's not accomplished through repetition. Real proof (which most people don't see until college/grad school) requires creativity, logic, and innovation. Each problem is different, so when taught correctly, repetition should not be an issue. It sounds like you have a mediocre teacher.

See, that's the kind of instruction your kid needs. I'm so glad that you've found someone who can challenge him. Math competition problems are really great, too, and there are so many resources out there for that.

Wow. That's particularly impressive in that he hasn't been exposed to this material at all. Good for him, and good for you for making this happen. Sounds like the Tutor is a good apple.

I've seen the same thing in my son. It has something to do with a 'sense of justice' that is common in gifted. They just can't fake it sometimes.
Best Wishes,
Trinity

CFK,
I too have been in the "ticked off the teacher" situation with my 8 year old. Like your son, over the course of school, DS had lost any eagerness or trust that school was a place to learn new and interesting things. Instead his perception was that it was basically a torture session of unreasonable, antagonistic teachers that were basically out to get him. The work was mind numbingly boring (hence alot of basic math and grammar errors) and had no relevance.

His situation actually deteriorated to the point that we had to change his school this year. In retrospect the biggest thing I would have done differently was let DS know that he had our support 100%. Instead, we tried to balance his needs with the 100% accuracy first attitude of his teacher. It was a huge error on our part. Our son has been in counceling now for 6 months both individual and family to work through alot of the issues caused by the horrendous school placement for grades 1 and 2. Telling him he had our support didn't do a whole lot. Given him honest but level appropriate feedback on how we felt about his teacher, did help him to realize that that she was unfair to him and that he could do much more than she saw/allowed. For eg, we told him that her actions toward him were inappropriate for a teacher and gave him specifics. However, that did not mean that he was allowed to act inappropriately towards her. It really came down to learning that the world isn't fair but that we were in his corner. He would have to do his part to complete the work and knock off his attitude, but in return, we would provide alot more afterschooling opportunities (like your tutoring) and lighten up on the minor stuff.

Nothing we could do, changed his teacher's attitude. Since his teacher was also the owner of the school that led to a complete change in his education. Knowing that we weren't going to be able to change it, we focused on how to make it possible for DS to get through it until the end of the term. I hope that you are able to make some progress with your son's teacher, but from the phrasing of your post, it sounds like he is one of the 100% accuracy must be a "perfect" student to be considered smart. It is also likely that he has never seen a student like your son before and has no training on how to teach him to his level and needs. It is therefore easier to say to your son that he isn't as smart as "they" say than to figure out what is really going on. Some teachers just can't accept that the highly gifted really do learn differently. Just curious if you have heard the ADD/ADHD suggestion yet?

One other thought, can you advocate with the principal to have some in service training at the school on how gifted children present in the classroom? Something geared to helping all the teachers maybe find those children that might otherwise fall through the cracks? I'm not in the education field, but after his new school found out about DS (and the nightmare that he was coming from), they did a half day in service seminar on at risk students and identifying traits. Part of it focused on gifted and in particular how many present as careless, unmotivated, and similar to ADHD.
I certainly wish you the best and hope that your son's situation improves! Seeing the light dim in my son's eyes at the thought of going to school was heartbreaking.

CFK - I really think that even my outspoken boy was compliant and cooperative for years before starting to act out. I think they just have so much tolerance to insult and disrespect, and then "no more."

Is there anyway you can have him bring the Math book home and cheat? You type it for him? You type up a cheat sheet and he copies it? He does it but with the TV on? His brother take turns and do half of each sheet? make a party out of it in some way? Use a calculator?

Just wondering...
Trinity

DS and I were wondering why L'Engle has the Mrses steal sheets in the begining of the book, when they are supposed to be pure good. Can this be related? ((wink))
Trin

Nope. That's not cheating, that's survival!

Oh, CFK, that is wonderful news! And it must feel great to send your child off knowing that he isn't going into hostile territory every morning. I love the feeling I get when I'm having "issues" with someone and then get them resolved, especially when I feel like it's been a win on all sides. I hope you can enjoy the feeling and give thanks with enthusiasm tomorrow!!

Woo-hoo!

Go CFK!
I say "Ditto Dottie" - stashing the doubts and presenting a united front, (even if it's only yourself, LOL) is key. Even trying something that doesn't work is better than leaving a bad situation to fester, because then you learn from your mistakes, and are in a better position to fashion your next best guess. Then you can come here and "jello out!" Every parent needs to do that sometimes!
Trinity

CFK,
That is wonderful news! I hope that both your son and his teacher are better able to work together now. I have an IEP meeting on 11/29. I have to remember to be more absolute in my statements of DS's abilities rather than my usual hedging style. Our situation this year is much better than the last 2 years. Hopefully after the IEP meeting, we will be able to finally meet some of DS's needs. The school so far has been as proactive as I could expect (not quite at my wish list level but ...:)) and at P/T conference last week, the teacher really seemed to "get" DS. So many of her comments were right on to my perceptions of him and she was extremely open and honest about how she could meet some of his needs but not all in the mainstream classroom.

That's wonderful news Elh0706! A tearcher who "gets" the child can make such a wonderful difference.
Smiles,
Trinity

Ah, so true!

I love tutors who get it. My son's Bass Guitar teacher does the same thing.

I'm glad your Math tutor is working out. Not sure if it's fortunate or unfortunate, just glad your boy is happy!
Trinity