Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy DS6 wants to quit piano

This is just another example of his already underacheiving personality. I honestly don't want him to quit but his mind is made up. It's truly is sad since he seems to be a natural at the piano.

He began taking lessons in October with a wonderful teacher. Within 2 weeks he was reading music and playing short songs with chords. He is currrently on his 9th or 10th scale, reads music, can play some basic classical pieces. The teacher really keeps things interesting for him. His lessons seems fun. Usually they do scales, a duet song, a more complicated song, and review the 1-2 pages he completed in the workbook.

The biggest problem is that he HATES practicing lately. When he does practice he rushes through it. When he doesn't practice it really shows at his lessons and he gets upset and defensive. For the first few months DS6 didn't really need to practice every day but as he learns more and more he really does need at least 10-15 minutes a day to practice.

Any BTDT advice??

For those of you who haven't followed our story we are waiting out the end of a bad year in PS. DS6 no longer reads for pleasure, does advanced math or anything academic in his spare time. He HATES school and recently told me that he is no longer smart. Piano was the last thing that he seemed to still enjoy doing at an advanced level (well besides video games!! )

Oh, crisc! This makes me so sad. I'm really sorry!

Can you make a game out of it, maybe? Clearly he's a kid who needs to find the fun again. Could you ask him what might make it fun to do again?

Maybe you could make it about "leveling up," like a video game? With some nothing little reward (like a gold medal or a worthless point accumulation) for achievement in the game? I'm just thinking that following his interests might be your best hope.

I'll keep thinking...

hi crisc,
I have seen DD interest wane recently in piano (specifically having to practice everyday). We (the teacher and I) are having her do piano exams and competitions in the hope that seeing a slightly more tangible end result (certificates, accolades) will enthuse her. So far it seems to be working, she has a goal and wants to attain it ..

hth

WOW Crisc our DS's could be a match, mine is also 6.
Although my DS is also good at piano and reading music, I just don't think music is his thing. Heartbreaking for my DH who plays guitar. He also reads less and does less math and I believe video games are the culprit. They are sucking his brain and we need to do detox quick!

What if you asked him to compose a special piece? Something that is his very own to play. My DS doesn't like to play the songs in the book at all but loves to make up his own.

Make a whole production out of it. Record the music, have him write out the notes or ask his piano teacher to help. You can even go so far as to have his finished piece copyrighted. If his piano teacher gives recitals, you can ask that he be allowed to be identified as a composer and play his own piece. Worth a try!

Good Luck Crisc!

DD4 is angry because she wants violin (they told her she needed a year of piano).

But I am finding that her abilities are so strong. (Another mother whose child is before her heard her practicing in the next room made comments)

And she said she wanted lessons -- I am continuing. If she wants something, I make sure she is consistent in her commitment, which is not easy.

First, the lessons really impact IQ. Secondly, her nature to be ADHD (not diagnosed, just behaviorily similar) it is great for her to be able to focus and do the lessons.

This is a tough decision. She is so young. But she shows ability. Now that we started, I want to contiue. I wish she was 6 or 7. Then it would be want I did, her father did.

But she started just after she turned 4, because they pushed it and we finally agreed. So we continue.

It is a better lesson to stick with something once you decided.

Ren

The practice is a bi**h. But I happen to see a video at the library, Marsalis and YoYo Mac talking about practice and everyone hates it.

But I make DD4 practice. I am very disciplined. This is something she needs as so much comes early and the practice sessions are hard. Also, the piano teacher gives all these pieces and expects me to teach her.

I do not want DD to become a musician but this is part of the left brain and she is visual spatial. If it works to do this, then I make the commitment.

Ren

We went through this last December with DS7. It got to the point where we actually entertained the idea of letting him quit. He's an amazing pianist and it saddened us so much that he wanted to give up playing.

I talked with his teacher and she started to incorporate more duets. She also asked him to bring along his recorder that he was learning in music class at school - they finished the recorder book from school in only a few lessons so she found recorder duets. She just tried new things to keep him interested.

We recently started cyber schooling and he *asks* if he can go ahead and practice early in the day, which blows me away! I really think when he was in PS he didn't get home until 4, had to do homework, eat dinner, practice...he didn't feel like he had any free time. Now that he's schooling at home, he seems to realize he has that extra time. I know how frustrating it can feel though. Hopefully you can hang in there and his interest will pick up again!

Ha ha, I thought I was the only one using piano as a form of therapy for my VSLs. A former piano teacher told me she thinks it requires the left and right brains to work together. I think there are aspects for each half of the brain.

Oddly enough, my one who is the least visual-spatial (or more balanced, with both right and left brain strengths, as far as I can tell) has the most trouble with piano - the fattest fingers with the least dexterity, the most trouble learning to read music, and with his underachieving/perfectionist tendencies thrown in, he really hates to practice because it requires him to turn on his brain. But I'm making him continue (even if I have to sometimes drag him kicking and screaming to the piano to practice) because I think it's good for (a) his brain development, (b) his motor development, and (c) his perfectionist tendency to avoid things that are hard for him. It's hard to know what he gets away with at school in terms of avoiding hard work (I know his teacher works on this) but I know that piano is real work for him. Plus he gets to see that he really *can* do it if he tries. Basically, in a manner of speaking, it being hard for him is the very reason I think he needs it.

I keep practice pretty short (not that I have to persuade him to stop lol). He likes to negotiate on the number of times he plays the piece. The shorter we keep practice, the easier it is to get him to do it on a daily basis. Sometimes that leads to him spending more than one week on the same piece. He'll never be a concert pianist, but that's fine by me. We're in no hurry. I'm hoping to keep this up for another couple of years at least, just for the therapeutic benefits for all three of my kids who are old enough to play (even though they each have different weaknesses, piano seems to be good for all those things). By then, the younger ones will start.

How about taking a break till the end of summer and reevaluating then? Or let him take a break but ask him to go back to piano in September?

DS4 and DS6 both started in September. It's quite obvious that DS6 isn't in it as much as he was. It's no longer as easy as it used to be and he doesn't get to fly through the songs like before. Fortunately practicing is not an issue and he does want to keep taking piano. Our music school offers lessons during the summer and both of the boys opted out. I am glad. DS6 needs a break and I need a break from practicing with DS4.

I hope your son will come back to piano if not now then may be a year or two from now.

I'm so sorry! DS8 (2nd grade) has been taking piano for about 3 years. He started Suzuki method as a preschooler. So this is a subject near and dear to our heart.

A few things are critical for us
1) consistency about time - we practice in the morning generally before we do anything else. When he was going to school, we practiced before school (we had a 9:15 school start). I know another family that practices right before bedtime every night as a wind down.
2) I generally work with him and practice with him. I sit down with him, applaud, make incentive games (right now he can earn 7 stickers practicing for 20 bonus computer minutes)
3) Contests, recitals, talent shows, and other performance opportunities are important motivation. We had to change from a teacher who only had 1 recital a year and nothing else.
4) Piano is a non-negotiable. We've set an expectation that he will be taking piano for some time to come. We let him pick the instrument but then it became mandatory.

It is really obvious when he performs or picks out a new piece (most recently some music from the Harry Potter movies!) he loves it. He starts drooling when he sees a piano somewhere. I think through piano he really "gets" how to learn incrementally. It has helped him in many areas. His piano teacher just raved about him this afternoon.

DD4 started violin this past fall. I jump through a lot of hoops to get 15 minutes of practice from her. Lately, we choose a book, read a page, do 2 violin tasks, read another page, do 2 more, etc etc etc. She's trucking along well for her age. I set much shorter term goals for her.

I think setting some goals and incentives out there that are very particular to the personality of the child can go a long way! Good luck! Keep us posted.

We've had a similar experience with homeschooling. DS has just exploded in his piano ability homeschooling this year. He regularly practices for 45-60 minutes a day and won all sorts of awards and accolades this year. He just has more energy and interest.

I think it is hard for young kids sitting in school all day to want to come home and work at the piano. Last year was definitely a harder year for us with the bad school year on top of it. So you totally have my sympathy crisc!

DD13 was the same way at age 10, but she is really enjoying it now. Try to see if your child would like composing- that's what really got her excited, she has written a lot of incredible pieces now. So if you child is persistent, tell him to wait a little longer, as that little longer is what saved DD from missing out on her favorite activity!

I've been recently trying to get Miss 7 to take responsibility for her own practice (eek!) After her weekly lesson, I write up a chart with all the things she needs to practice with a convenient little check box next to it. Once I hear that she's checked everything off the list, I sign off on her practice - the same way as I do for her homework at school. The extra incentive I've used to get into this habit is pocket-money. If she does her practice 6 times a week, she gets $6 on Sunday (she has to give $1 for charity). What I've found is that the more she practices, the more she enjoys playing! If she misses a practice session during the week, she almost always does double on the weekend to make up for it. I've also been taking her down to the nursing home to play for her great-grandmother which has been our version of having a "concert". And I gotta say, this has really worked for us. And for Miss 4 too. I hope that the link between piano and pocket-money wont last long. It feels like too much of a "carrot" to me, but it's certainly helped us get into the routine of practising. And has encouraged Miss 7 to do her practice before school rather than leaving it to the last minute... jojo

My dd7 started violin at 4 and around 6 she really lost her enthusiasm. She's always loved music, but it isn't something that comes easily to her as so having to practice to see progress has been really good for her. When she lost interest I came up with a token system to bribe her. She earned a token for each practice session (usually about 15-20 min) and the tokens could be turned in for a half-hour of screen time. She really didn't like having to practice but wanted to play Webkinz or watch tv enough that it kept her doing it. Fast forward 9 months and she's loving it again and she actually asks to practice.

I think Ruby's point is a great one. I find that DS8 goes in waves on piano too now that we've been at this over 3 years. Sometimes he is highly motivated. Sometimes we have to find something to get us over a hump.

I just let my DS6 stop doing guitar. He did it for a year, but towards the end was resisting practicing. I felt that at his age, I didn't want him to feel pushed into music, because it might inhibit him wanting to try again when he has more self-motivation. He also ended up wanting to explore martial arts, and is loving that, so I feel that it was a good decision.

I think there is definitely a balancing act that you have to do as a parent in these types of situation. You can't make a kid love to play an instrument and as in eema's case, forcing kids to keep playing if they hate it can crush their love and enjoyment in music.

But for some kids, if you let them quit something when it becomes as challenge, they don't learn to meet challenges and grow from the experience. In my dd case, she still loved music but it started to get to the level of playing where she couldn't memorize the song the first/second time through, there were more elements she had to do all at once (more complicated bowings, new finger positions, more difficult rhythms and new types of notation in the music) and it was no longer 'easy' for her to play a piece well the first few times through. She had to break down the pieces and practice just a few measures at a time and I could see her frustration when she couldn't get it right away.

My husband thought we should just let her stop. But I felt really strongly that with a school situation that was completely not meeting her academic needs, she needed something that she would have to work at to see improvement. It took a lot of trial and error to find a system that worked for us, but by finding a reward system that encouraged (not forced) her to practice, she learned a valuable lesson and I don't just mean about playing the violin.

Ruby - I was about to post the same thing. There is a difference between a kid fundamentally hating the whole music lesson scene, and a child that enjoys music and/or performing, but doesn't want to put the work into practice. You really have to know your child. And your own motivation and level of commitment as a parent too. We are on our 3rd piano teacher. A good fit with a teacher or program/philosophy is important. But private music lessons are sure not a necessity for every child. The lessons learned here can be learned in other ways.

We have been lucky that neither of our kids have ever asked to quit. They don't want to practice every day, but they generally enjoy it. Today my daughter wanted to practice violin outside. Which was fine with me and made it much more fun and interesting for her. She's 4, so it's very much just working on building a habit. Even if it's only 15 minutes a day and we don't actually do much productive.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. I really hope that DS6 will want to take lessons again someday since he seems to be such a natural at it. I tried to suggest a reward system yesterday if he would stick with it but he wanted no part of it. He calmly told me that he did not want to practice and play piano anymore. I'll admit it--I am sad. I feel guilty since his school situation probably isn't helping this situation at all. Is it summer yet?

I am currently teaching DS7 piano. I made sure that the practice is light (about 5-10 mins a day). I also made the pace pretty slow because he has many things to do after school. DS gets used to the idea that he needs to practice everyday.

I think your DS just need a break. Keep in mind he is not going to lose what he learn in piano. One day, he may want to learn some other instruments and he will bring this knowledge with him. He will advance very fast.

Or maybe he just want to compose one day, or even learn to play by ear. He will still need the knowledge he learned from piano.

I had piano lessons for 12 1/2 years. At the end, I was so tired of practicing. After I stopped the lessons, I learned to make up chord and played by ear, which I had never learned from my piano teacher. I enjoy the randomness of putting notes together to make a piece of good sounding music.

He will take what he learned from piano one day, and he will learn something different and make it better. I don't think you should be sad. Quitting doesn't mean he is quitting for life. It only means he wants a little break or to change direction.

Maybe he will try something else later. There are many art forms, and many instruments out there. Anything can happen. I showed no interest in music until age twelve and then became a tuba player litterally overnight. Maybe he has lost interest for good, but it is equally possible that he will one day tell you he has found the love of his life in the form of the hammer dulcimer, contralto clarinet, or euphonium.

just a quick update..DD did well (superior/highest rating) in the category at the piano exams.
She seems no more /no less motivated than before even after having looked at the certificate, the pin, the report card that says nice things and the pleased teacher!
She seems more excited about the promised gift (wii outdoor challenge!)
sigh! so much for enrolling kids into exams for a motivational tool !

Congrats, shaangi's DD, on the piano exams! I have absolutely no problem with bribery if it gets the intended results.
We used to pay DD11 to practice violin, and she did so grudgingly. Then, we bought her an expensive violin and told her the "repayment" was practice. She's been pretty motivated since then.

One thing I have learned now that my daughter is a teen is that the kids need to know that ultimately the parents are deciding what is in their best interests. If young kids decide that, then parents will be in trouble when the kids hit their older years and don't want to do anything (or at least anything in which they do not have innate talent).

I have decreased lesson time and other things, but I want her to know that experience (parents) is an issue also.

Being highly intelligent does not equate adult experiences.

Re: motivation - I heard an interesting anecdote about Wynton Marsalis. He first started playing trumpet at age 6, but he really didn't like to practice. His first recital was at age 12, and supposedly he butchered the piece he played. From then on, he started practicing for hours every day.

I guess some kids are motivated by success, others by failure.