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    #4266 - 11/09/07 06:20 AM How common is VIQ/NVIQ discrepancy?
    pinkpanther Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/19/07
    Posts: 175
    My DD was just screened for GATE for the second time (both times referred by her teacher). She did not pass either screening and was given the NNAT both times. My DD is highly verbal, although she's never been given a full IQ test. Her weakness is definitely visual-spatial. She is in advanced reading and math and is still bored in school. She is only 1 point away (on the state's matrix of multiple criteria) from qualifying for full testing through the school, scoring very high in areas of performance and characteristics. Although her NNAT scores are only average (110 the first time and 99 the second time), I know that she could not achieve at the level she does with an average IQ. Her teachers have said the same thing. Is this common? Can a high/aciever or gifted kid have an average NVIQ?

    I will have more insight on this when she takes the OLSAT in the spring.

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    #4270 - 11/09/07 07:45 AM Re: How common is VIQ/NVIQ discrepancy? [Re: Dottie]
    pinkpanther Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/19/07
    Posts: 175
    I agree with you. After DD's first experience with the NNAT, I did some informal research on the NNAT (via the internet and polling of GT teachers) and I found that the NNAT is not well received in some circles. One GT teacher told me that they've seen kids score in the 80th percentile or lower on the NNAT and in the 99th percentile on the OLSAT.

    We were shocked that DD did not qualify for services, and so were her teachers. She scores high on achievement tests (SAT, DIBELS, STAR reading, etc.) and scored high on her creativity assessment this year, too. I would guess that her IQ is in the 120-130 range, although her VIQ could be much higher than that. The NNAT has left us discouraged and confused. In AL, the GATE program serves gifted kids and also high achievers who may not have IQ's in the gifted range but who score high enough in other areas to qualify. They use a point system, and 17 out of 20 points qualifies a kid for services, and 14/20 points qualifies a kid for individual testing. DD scored 9/10 points in performance and 4/5 points in gifted characteristics. She got 0 points for aptitude. An OLSAT/NNAT score of at least 124 would qualify her with the other scores she has now. An OLSAT/NNAT score of 115 would qualify her for an individual IQ test. She will take the OLSAT in the spring with the rest of the 3rd graders (as part of achievement testing). Does all of this make sense? Do you see how close we are???



    Edited by pinkpanther (11/09/07 07:48 AM)

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    #4271 - 11/09/07 07:46 AM Re: How common is VIQ/NVIQ discrepancy? [Re: Dottie]
    pinkpanther Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/19/07
    Posts: 175
    Yes, it would make sense that gifted kids would have a higher frequency of score discrepancies. In fact, I think I read that somewhere, but I don't remember the numbers.

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    #4272 - 11/09/07 09:10 AM Re: How common is VIQ/NVIQ discrepancy? [Re: pinkpanther]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Oh PP!
    It can be so frustrating!
    How is your DD doing? Is she happy? Is she learning to learn? Can she wait for the OLSAT's? Are the teachers willing to work with her without the label? Sometimes one can suggest a "trial" in the GT program and get in through the cracks....

    In the meanwhile, you can sign her up for some "above level" tests through the talent searches, and pretty inexpensivly get some other data.

    If you go the private testing route, will the school honor the report?

    Best Wishes,
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #4273 - 11/09/07 09:58 AM Re: How common is VIQ/NVIQ discrepancy? [Re: Grinity]
    pinkpanther Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/19/07
    Posts: 175
    DD is frustrated. She knows who's in the program already. Some of them are also in her reading class (the kids are grouped by ability for reading). DD feels that she has equal (and in some cases higher) abilities compared to many in the program. She feels that they are her intellectual peers. She outperforms many of them in the classroom, and it comes very easily for her. Socially, she's fine. She has friends, and she's a leader in the class/school. She's one of those kids with high ability, personality, and drive--a good combo for success. She's also one of those kids that teachers love, and the fact that two teachers have referred her for GT testing has put her on their radar. The GT teacher said that they keep and eye on those "close" kids and are continually gathering data on them to try to get them in.

    She is currently being given math enrichment exercises through the math resource teacher, and she's in an advanced reading class. That's the best we can do right now, I guess.

    What above level tests would you suggest? I don't know how willing she would be at this point. She's rather discouraged. The school will only take private testing as a referral. I really want the data, but I don't know if I want to put her through it right now. It would be easier if she were younger, but at nearly 9 she's so aware of the process and its implications. She was very nervous about taking the NNAT again, which is probably why her score went down.

    Our other DD is 6, and we're starting the process earlier with her. We're requesting screening this year for her.

    We live in an area with great public schools, but I still feel guilty for taking my DD's out of private school. The girls really thrived there, and they were challenged intellectually. We just couldn't afford it anymore. For instance, we haven't taken a family vacation in 4 years. We made the tough decision in an effort to strike a balance.

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