Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy How to help my 6 yo... (newbie post with serious "vent warning")

We just moved to PA recently from another state. My son has entered first grade and has expressed an interest in going to some sort of real brick-and-mortar school rather than homeschool.

HOWEVER...one month in and still the teacher has not challenged him appropriately. She is noncommunicative--I emailed her and followed up with repeated phone messages to call me because I want to get an impression of what her plan was and how she structured her classes. NO answer. (She claims the email bounced , but I have informed her that my phone is in good working condition.)

In the meantime, my son (who is not G/T by the standard in his old district but reads chapterbooks and does, with me, 4 digit math/early algebra concepts and moves form concept to concept VERY rapidly) has been complaining that it is "too easy" and "miserable" (his words) and that he really wants someone to teach him something new. Almost a month in and no one has taught him anything! The only things I have seen in his folder are coloring pages, drawings and exercises in which they must place the word "the" in a sentence by cutting and pasting.

It wasn't until my husband had to retrieve my son from school that we even knew what his teacher looked like and she mentioned that if I really felt the need to meet with her before the one month open house, then I could drop by in the morning any day. So... we went there at 7 am with the 2 year old and 6 year old in tow. Eventually, when she came out of a meeting with the staff, we were able to meet with her. She interpreted our meeting as an attack from the beginning! She offered us about 20 minutes of excuses and justifications for keeping him in the same program with all the other kids. She insisted on being rigid...that until her testing phase was over she would not have a feel for the kids and so WOULD NOT consider adding any supplemental materials to at least help him feel challenged over the course of a day. She actually told me that it was my job to pick up the slack for the school's inadequacy by teaching him "extra things" in the evening. when he is no longer able to focus on anything, let alone actually explore and play/share time with his sister. (Major WTF!)

This is creating behavior problems at home because after sitting through mind-numbing "lessons" in phonics and coloring, he has a hard time focusing or listening. (The equivalent of making an adult watch Barney for 6 hours--positively excruciating for the poor kid!) I ask him...after 3 weeks...whether he got a chance to read. "Not today, but the teacher did." I ask him if he did any math. "Only little bit on the computer, but it is too easy still." (The computer game apparently gets progressively harder.) There have been no books checked out from the library...no communication with parents about what they will be learning this month or next month or even over the course of a year.

I have a message outstanding with the principal today to address the possibility of getting him into gifted and talented and possibly into a different classroom. The only thing keeping me from using the online charter school at this point or homeschooling him outright is that he has expressed a desire to go to school and fit in with other kids...even now. Unfortunately he is starting to interpret the lack of attention at school as a kind of rejection...that there is something wrong with him.

I am floudnering here. Praying for greater wisdom...asking advice if you have any to offer for dealing with this joke of a school in PA.

Anne

As the parent of a 14 yr old, I can say "been there". Our son moved to 3rd grade in the middle of his 1st grade year. The work was more interesting for him, but as your teacher recommended, we did provide a lot of enrichment at home. He started piano at five and played baseball and basketball. He also read constantly. He's now taking AP Calculus and other classes beyond his grade level. He's extremely well-adjusted, funny and kind. If I could offer anything, having been through it, I would say relax. Provide the best enrichment you can outside of class. We live in Central PA (I grew up in Penn Hills, right next to Woodland Hills), the school districts are what they are.

One thing that really helped all through elementary school was to get in-depth books on the topics they are covering in school and let your child go further into the topic. You will drive yourself crazy trying to make teachers do what you want. Every once in a while you will find a gem, but ultimately it will be up to you. Our house looks like a book store and a music store. We also take trips to museums, etc., and our kids see us always reading and learning new things so we set the "lifelong learning" example at home. Good luck.
Amy

Hi Anne,

I am in the exact same position that you are currently. My son, who just turned 6 and misses the birthdate cutoff by 1 day has just started Kindergarten at an elite private school (supposedly the best w/in an 90 minutes of our area). He has been dying to go to a normal type school and have lots of friends and peers, however it has been 3 weeks and he brings home the exact same work and has told me "I'm so sad because I LOVE the school but I'm probably going to have to find a new one in 2007 because the I already know everything and most of the kids in my class think it's hard". I have been trying to contact the 'learning specialist' at the school (she is responsible for all acceleration, etc.) and although I have sent all his records and test scores she tells me that she has to complete her own tests before we can discuss anything. My son told me that they have met twice for approx. 10 minutes each and that she had him read 2 books, answer basic questions related to the books and played one mind/memory game. He also said that the books were super easy but he didn't want to hurt her feelings so he didn't say anything. Needless to say it is week 3 and she still has NOT gotten back to me....so I am getting upset and distressed just imaging what the next step is going to be like (hoping that I will finally hear back from her so that we can discuss some options---I'm already getting the feeling that she's probably thinking I'm a pain in the neck that thinks my son is so great). It will also be interesting to hear her feedback after spending a total of 20 minutes with my son reading EASY books, no math, etc......Please let me know how things are proceeding with you and if anyone else has wisdom, hope, or recommendations I would love to hear it. Thanks!!

Dale

Hello Anne and others:

We fell into the "afterschool enrichment" trap and found it to be a disaster. Our second grade DD had never been challenged, except in EPGY math. We did so much enrichment that there was no free time. At that point we decided to homeschool. It was so much better than school, then afterschool.

Acceleration the next year proved to be the answer for us, at that time. Now, school at least a bit more challenging. Who knows what will come next year! Maybe Davidson Academy!

Susan in Reno

Anne--this is my first post of any kind about anything--so I'll give it a shot. We live in PA as well but have had a very different experience. If you request in writing that your child be tested and request a GIEP (gifted individualized educational plan) the school must respond. We did so, thanks to my husband who has done extensive research. As a result and some assertiveness on his part, both of our children have been accelerated a grade and have individualized programs that accelerate them further. Our daughter, who is the one in the Young Scholar program so far, has been taking an on-line pre algebra and algebra course through Johns Hopkins. She is now 10 years old and in sixth grade working on Algebra. We're in the process of putting the rest of her curriculum together, but so far the school has responded to what we've requested. The law in PA is, as far as I know, that the school is required to respond to your requests. So good luck. And by the way, both kids are doing fine having skipped a grade. They're socially okay, despite what people worry about.

Wow - drooling in CT - Good luck Anne
Smiles,
Trinity

Hello landjsmom - I'm the mom from earlier with the 14 yr old son. We are in Shippensburg, PA and have had the same experience as you. Our son has a GIEP, was grade-skipped, the district provided EPGY math classes in elementary school and Johns Hopkins classes in math and writing in middle school. They also allowed him to do independent study in math so he covered Algebra II and PreCalc in a single year. What was harder to get was actual differentiation of the curriculum in other classes like science and social studies because the teachers simply have too much to do already. We have huge differences in ability within the classroom and I really began to feel I was simply asking too much. This is where bookstores and the library came in handy and our son just went deeper into topics on his own.

I still believe very strongly in outside enrichment. Music, especially, but also sports and travel. My son still seems to have plenty of "sitting around playing video games" time. I never considered homeschooling personally because my experience in school was so much fun. I can't imagine my kids missing the typical American childhood. They are thriving participating in marching band, sports, plays, etc. I know when they are adults they will look back and remember great friendships, the excitement of Friday night football games, nerves before quiz bowl competitions and a lot of silliness.
Amy

Hi again--it sounds like we've been down the same path. We too have more or less backed off when it came to science and social studies, although everything's not in place yet this year. Laura will probably be doing extra independent study on topics the class is covering. She did this in elem. school and it worked out okay. I agree with the "typical American childhood" too. I can't imagine homeschooling, although that seems to work for a lot of families. It wouldn't work for us. Interestingly, our school district is a city, very ethnically mixed, without a lot of tax money. However, this has turned out to be an advantage--most of the teachers are either young and idealistic and energetic or older and very dedicated. We had planned to leave the city when the kids reached school age, but now are committed to staying because other districts won't even begin to continue what we've started here in Lebanon.
Anne

Thanks folks for all your kind replies.

It has been an uphill battle just to get him assessed...but the way his present school district interprets his IEP would be in terms of providing enrichment once a week in addition to his current classwork.

This is so aggravating.

I think I had better buy myself a punching bag. Catharsis needed.

Dear F-T-T,

We have found that a single grade skip can really help. Even if the kid has mastered work beyond one grade above, they have some challenge getting used to new teacher, classmates, etc. It really has been a good answer for my kids (or at least a start to an answer).

Also what I have found is that no solution is perfect and you need to take a look at it each month or two. Maybe at some point adding distance learning like EPGY or JHU.

Our enrichment these days is self-guided. Sports, music, nature hikes, cubscouts, community programs, theater, speakers, reading (books and lots of different magazines), even things like bowling and county fairs. It takes a lot of energy and devotion on the parents' part, but if it ignites something in the kid, it's great. I live in a small town, but it seems we can make any outing educational. As they get older, I also rely on media, such as classic movies and musicals--they're little sponges and if you expose them to different things, they'll make more out of it than you'd think. We have to travel 3-4 hours each way to see some prominent speakers that come to the area, but if one son expresses interest, we try to accommodate (we're getting Mikhail Gorbachov in Midland and Ben Stein in Hobbs in the next couple months).

Thanks all:

We have made the decision to flip him to an online charter school which in part utilizes the Calvert curriculum.

HA! Update:

So much for the promise to be more flexible.

I received the curriculum box and went through it with a fine toothed comb, I determined that 90% of it was already covered 2 years ago (math) or is way under his current reading level. I got really excited when I saw the social studies readings in one book...until I realized that the parent is supposed to read them to the kid.

So. I told my teacher/advisor that we were going to have to switch things up a bit and please forward a placement test or two so that we know which books to request.

I got the following email today:
"I just talked your situation over with our head teacher and she and I feel that because of his age, it is best to stick with the standard first grade curriculum. We will of course be supplementing with other material which is more challenging."

HEllo? That was the reason we pulled him from school #1!!

I am going to talk to his assigned counselor and several others at the school and explain in some detail why this will not quite work. This should prove interesting.

[Since when is supplementing the standard busywork with more busywork considered an appropriate GIEP for someone who is 6 years old? They tried this tactic with me at his other school here. I also fail to understand how a child who is essentially being HOMESCHOOLED needs to follow a non customized curriculum.]

FTT -
I hope you keep posting, because I so what to hear how this turns out. It seems to me that your word alone should be enough that they can trust that if you say he can do it, then he can do it.

Does the teacher ever meet with your son F2F? If not, I would send her a camcorder of your son reading the history text and discussing it. That should help.

Can you just give him the last test in the book and send it in for their perusal?

"Gifted is as gifted does" say Trinity - i.e. if he can do the work of an age + 2 (or 3 or 4) person, then that's what he should be allowed to do.

Amazon and other sites sell used book pretty cheaply sometimes. If you can't find an older hild using this system to borrow the books from to show them what he can do, then maybe $10 on a above level text book will be a good investment.

Keep fighting - you're so close!
Trinity

Update:

So much for flexibility.

I just got off the phone with the assistant principal.

Apparently if I want textbooks that are more advanced, I am going to have to make him go through the entire prepackaged first year curriculum. (like heck I will!) After that, she is willing to consider acceleration, but not more than one grade level, or providing suitable materials.

As of this moment, I am pushing for his rights under Chapter 16...becuse as far as I can see it, these are my options:

(1) homeschool him 100%. I am not in great health and the continuous demand to come up with lesson plans, etc. even while taking care of a 2 year old is a more than a bit hard on me. (I have been improvising for a few weeks now--I should know.)

(2) find a private school that will work (hard enough) and try to get financial aid (not likely this late in the year).

(3) Force the issue of obtaining a GIEP now with the cyberschool in the hope that I can corner them into providing more suitable course materials rather than mere "enrichment" in addition to the early readers and rubber ball counting and eventually (next year) take that GIEP to another school.

This whole situation is so surreal! Problem: I have a stack of textbooks next to my chair and I cannot use the majority of them. This package is worth hundreds of dollars and was purchased for us by the state. The company who supplied the materials in the first place encourages parents to use placement tests and mix & match as needed. NO ONE will tell me how or where to return the package. NO ONE is willing to provide books that we CAN use.

My God! Do these people have to be so rigid?!?

If the boy is doing 3rd grade math, why in the heck should I make him go through an entire courseload of busywork (excruciating for him--I pulled him from the public school because it was creating behavior problems at home).

Becuse this is a cyberschool, we are talking about keystrokes! Mere keystrokes and he could be taking challenging and fun courses.

I have been told by the asst. principal (messages to the principal and guidance coun. are out already) that completing the entire courseload (including arts & crafts and fluff activities) was the only thing she would accept as proof of his ability. She was not willing to do any other kind of assessment. If she does not bend on that, I am getting a lawyer. I will not torture my son for 6 months for anyone's amusement.

In the meantime, I am going to start referring to the cyberschool, PALO, by name because it seems to me others should be aware of their inadequacies (in spite of the promises they make prior to enrollment).

I am so angry right now, I am literally this color -->

Wow FFT -
Have you called your congressperson? (Or at least threatend to?)

I like the hire a lawyer idea. If that's too expensive, can you hire a neighbor child to do the busy work for your child? ((Only joking if you need me to be.))

This whole thing is so weird!!

Is there a higher up person at the cyber charter you can talk to ?

Ouch!

Trinity

Trinity:

It is truly a bizarre situation because as far as I can tell, it is just about the books. I honestly don't care if they accelerate him--just want him challenged with the material. I am perfectly happy if he stays in first grade if the resources are adequate. He is, after all, pretty much a homeschool kid right now.

And the conversation was weird...like she was digging in her heels and didn't want to hear anything else from me.

I asked her at one point if she would make a third grader start with the first grade curriculum.
Answer: no, of course not.
Me: Then why make my son start there, since he is capable of so much more already and WANTS to do more.
Answer: but he IS in first grade.
Me: If that is a problem, let's accelerate him. Answer: NO. Not until he completes the first grade curriculum.
Me: Why?
Answer: Because that is what we do.
Me: Why can't we be more flexible and adapt just a bit? We are just talking about the books, you know. Calvert actually encourages parents to mix and match a bit and they even use their own placement tests to determine what books to order.
Answer: Because that is not what we do.
ME: Why is that not "what we do"? Isn't there another answer that is possible here?
answer: You can't expect us to take your word for it, can you?
Me: No, of course not--let's assess his current skill level, give him a test or two. I would be happy to take him out there to the unit so someone else can administer any placement or skill test you would like...
Answer: No. Not until he completes the first grade curriculum.
Me: What if I just have him demonstrate by taking the tests that he has been there and has seen the waterfall? Would that work for you?
Answer: No. That is not what we do.
Me: Then it would appear I need to speak with a few other people, because that is not even a compromise and what you are suggesting is absolutely insufficient and unacceptable.

It was like talking to a robot from a 50s B movie and it was all I could do just to keep my cool.

It was as if through the whole conversation, she was drawing a line in the sand and telling me that she was unwilling to help. When I suggested that I should just request a GIEP and get it over with, she said, "well, you know those can take a long time too..." (in a sinister tone to suggest she intends to take even longer than necessary) and besides, we would NEVER consider accelerating a child more than one grade level and told me that if I didn't like any part of this, I could go forth and homeschool my child.

This is the same thing we were going through with his previous school except in this case it is...more blatantly rigid and I would suggest lazy.

I really can't afford much in the way of a lawyer, unfortunately. My husband is only a neuroscience post doc and that hardly pays much. On top of having a mortgage to nurse, I have health problems and another kid too (who will probably be leading me through a similar merry dance in about 3-4 years).

I may just contact a congressman (and a newsguy or two that I know) if I don't start getting movement.

They haven't really even seen any work from him yet. There has been no assessment. There has been no effort at all on their part.

But when I add up the cost to the state.

use of a laptop computer and a brand new inkjet scanner/printer...
staff/teachers...
textbooks that have not been used...
they are paying my internet bill
free tech support...

All of this starts to really reek to me.

Anyway...sorry about the ranting (Ha--can ya tell I'm still P.O.'d??)

It isn't just me, is it?...this is...nuttso, right? Calvert (the company from which they ordered the books) has a standing policy of encouraging parents to mix and match to suit the kid. They are willing to accept the return of the books for exchange.

I have a call out to the principal and one to the counselor (to request the GIEP).

I will let you know what happens on Monday, if anything.

Hi Anne,

I got your email and you mentioned that you're going through the AppliedGiftedEd website. The website should answer most of the questions you have about PA's Gifted Ed regulations and how they apply to a gifted kid's situation.

I can answer some of your questions briefly, but I've got a large project due soon and need to put some time in on that ... again, the website addresses most of the general issues you raise.


The short answer is this:

Your school district gets, basically, three months before they have to do *anything* with a gifted kid who is in the process of being identified gifted.

That's just the bureaucracy. You can *ask* for expedited identification, but the district is under no obligation to move faster than the timeline which is sixty school days.

It doesn't matter if Bob and Jan Davidson fly in with the combined testing staffs of Johns Hopkins and Carnegie Mellon to vouch for the kid to your director of pupil services - the district gets to do its own testing using its own people.

The GIEP process will sort itself out once you get the Gifted Written Report taken care of. You *should* write up a parent's exhibit/input form for the Gifted Written Report. You can use your Davidson Application data, not the form itself, but use the information on your application to supplement the testing results. You are part of the Gifted Multidisciplinary Evaluation Team and, as such, have input.

Once you get the GWR you will sit down with the school and create the Gifted IEP. That's where you can adjust the curriculum to fit the child. The district is free, once the child is identified gifted, to modify as needed to create an appropriate plan.

The key things to keep in mind in Pennsylvania Public Education is that the district is not under any obligation to provide a gifted child (or any child for that matter) a 'Best Possible Education' but rather one of 'Meaningful Benefit' that's based on a 'Reasonable Calculation'.

If you can get a 'Best Possible' then great, but understand that is a function of the district and or teacher going above-and-beyond.

The big picture advocacy issues of why that's a shame are addressed by the Davidsons and other gifted ed advocacy groups - I don't have the luxury of theory. I've got a couple of kids going through the system.

As you roll into your Gifted Written Report, my advice would be to get through the 'Why?' stage as quickly as you can. Asking 'Why' is only going to drive you crazy. Get to the 'Who, What, When, Where, and How' stuff as soon as you can. If you can get those questions answered, you've got a Gifted IEP.

As for the placement decision - my advice, and I don't know the personalities involved, is to simply continue asking how their proposed plan meets your child's educational needs.

Eventually, if what they propose doesn't, they will/should get around to recommending something that you can approve.

Lastly, you may want to consider other cybercharters. There's a list at PDE. Do a google search on PDE and EDNA - EDNA is the Educators Directory of Names and Addresses - iirc, all the cybercharters are listed there.

Hope this helps and keep reading through the appliedgifteded site. I'm in the process of updating it.

Todd

I seem to be getting action from another teacher at the school. She sees that I am being reasonable (I hope) and is even giving me some very interesting suggestions about circumventing red tape...even gave me her home phone #!

More later.

Cool!

Glad to hear that.

Being reasonable helps a great deal.