Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Stressing about parent/teacher conferences

I'm stressing over our upcoming parent/teacher confernces. How to put that rare 15 minutes one-on-one with the teacher to good use?

For DS, should I share his WPPSI-III results? Is that like bragging or will it really be useful for the teacher? I'm not sure whether anything positive would come out of sharing...

For DD, should I ask about GATE testing? The principal was very negative about the GATE program at a meeting a few weeks ago. I can't decide if I want DD to be involved or not...

I hate these kinds of decisions because I always feel like I don't have enough information to make a good decision or to even know how important the decision is!

Cathy

I sympathize. I'm an evidence person, so I completely identify with your distress over making these decisions blind! So painful. I just keep reminding myself that nothing is irreversible and kids are adaptable. If you're prepared to adapt your course of action as you go along, it will all work out eventually.

What are the pros and cons to the GATE program? Why was the principal negative about it?

Do you think there's anything useful for the teacher to glean from the WPPSI? Someone here (sorry! I forget who, and I'm too lazy to check the archives!) offered what I thought was BRILLIANT advice: when talking to the teacher, focus more or less exclusively on how your child is feeling and behaving. That sets things up less as a problem to be solved as a team and minimizes the likelihood that the teacher will feel attacked in any way. There's also little chance that you'll seem to be bragging. After all, you're asking for help with solving a problem. That certainly seems more likely to get good results than showing the test scores.

Of course, there are those people who respect only test scores, so I think you should have them with you just in case, even if you don't plan to show them to her.

All the best!

Thanks, Kriston!

GATE:
pros--DD would be guaranteed a spot in honors classes from 4th grade thru high school. 4th-6th are served by gifted clusters of 4-8 kids within a regular class (not sure that's a pro, but that's all there is) taught by GATE certified teacher.

cons--the 4th grade gifted teacher would not be a good match for my DD. I know her. I'm pretty sure about that. The test is not administered under the best circumstances for my DD to perform well (CogAT=2+hrs in the District Board Room with a whole bunch of other kids.) She only gets one shot. After that, the only way to get into GATE is on teacher recommendation. Teachers don't seem to recognize my DD as gifted. She doesn't let on that she knows long division or talk about what she reads at home. Her handwriting and spelling are very average.

Maybe I'll just have her wait a year to skip that particular teacher's class and take the GATE test next year when she's got more test taking experience under her belt.

As for my son, I think his teacher doesn't really get how out there he is. He is very quiet in class and doesn't participate much. I'm sure she has no idea of the extent of his math and reading abilities or his knowledge of science. I'm not really sure what she can do for him anyway, so maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut. Her only comment on his interim report was that he needed work on coloring inside the lines. OK, maybe that's true, but it seems a shame that he can't do something interesting to him at school. He tells me it's too easy. He says he wants to do a science class. I told him to tell his teacher that he likes science. He said, "It would probably be too hard for the other kids." He is definitely noticing that he is different even though I have never told him anything like that.

He was working with another teacher in a small group when she asked the kids if there were any people in the classroom. Then they listed different words for people (kids, teachers, students, girls, boys, etc.) Then the teacher asked if there were any animals in the classroom. The kids were silent because they couldn't see any. Then DS said, "dust mites!" I asked him why he said dust mites and he told me it was because he was sure there were some even though they are microscopic. Later, he told me that he could also have mentioned that people are mammals but he didn't want to confuse the other kids because the teacher was talking about people and animals as being separate.

How many 4 yr olds think like that? He blows me away! I feel like I should DO something for him, but it doesn't seem like I have any options. The school can't really do anything, we can't afford a private school, we don't even live near a school for the gifted. I guess all I can do is send him to school and then provide enrichment at home (as we've been doing all along.)

Oh, he also told me not to tell his teacher that he thinks Kindergarten is boring because he doesn't want to hurt her feelings. He's probably right about that!

Cathy

Good question! I've asked myself that many times. Does she really think it's not in the kids' best interest to participate? She told this to a whole meeting of interested parents. Or does she have some kind of agenda to reduce the number of kids who are identified? Who knows? Even if she really thinks it's not beneficial to the kids, does that mean it wouldn't be beneficial to my kid? Again, how can I possibly know ahead of time?

Cathy

Hmmm...

If being in that teacher's class would be bad for your DD, then I would say let GATE go for this year and take the CogAT next year. FWIW, I think the teacher matters more than anything else. A good one can make a lousy situation work beautifully; a bad one can tank even the most perfect arrangements.

I think I'd either ask the principal why she's negative about GATE or disregard her negativity. Without more info, you are REALLY flying blind on that one, and as you say, there could be so many reasons why she's negative. Could you call her to ask, or is that out of the question?

Also, have you talked to any parents whose kids are in the GATE program? If you can, I would. And talk to the kids themselves, too. This can tell you a lot about the value of the program for your DD. Just try to get more than one opinion if you can so that you're not just getting one person's bias. But one opinion is better than none, I think.

For your son...not to sound like the home schooling pusher or something, but is home schooling a possibility? I ask because it's pretty much the only major educational option you didn't list as a possibility for him.

I won't go on and on about it, but if you are even remotely interested, please let me know and I'll be happy to talk pros and cons with you so you're not flying blind there at least. Many people reject home schooling because they think they'd have to replicate public school in their homes. Nope! It's much easier than that! Especially with a gifted kid, it takes a lot less time and effort than you might think. (Frankly, it's probably more or less what you're doing already when you talk about "providing enrichment." That's called "afterschooling" in home schooling circles, and it's one way for working parents to homeschool kids--use school as free child care and do the real teaching at home.) Anyway, a couple of hours a day of official schoolwork is plenty for us most days, and my DS still covered a semester of math in less than 5 weeks. (BTW, I slowed him down to that speed!) We do science experiments, we read about whatever interests him, we "play" with mazes and tangrams, and he has a lot more time to spend with friends. Heck, when he was in public school, it used to take us over an hour each night to get him to do his (way too easy) homework! Mostly that was negative nagging time, too. Now the work he's doing is virtually all pleasant and developmentally appropriate, so it's fun for all of us!

'Nuff said. I just wanted to throw that out there because I do think you're probably going to have to do something for him. He sounds like a fun kid!

I have talked to other parents and I'm getting a strong negative impression of this 4th grade teacher. One gifted boy in her class has become very depressed and told his mom that he wished he never took the GATE test. My DD is a very sensitive kid. I am really getting the feeling that this teacher would not be good for her. Of course, she could end up being assigned to that class anyway!

I think I am "afterschooling", LOL, I just didn't know what it was called. There's plenty of time for afterschooling in K, but there will be many more wasted hours and more busy work homework in first grade.

I've considered a skip for him, but he's young for grade and doesn't like to write. Also, from my own experience I know that skipping into a class of gifted kids is great but skipping into a heterogeneous class is not so great. My DS is a quiet, skinny kid with somewhat delayed large motor skills. I'm afraid he would become a punching bag in the upper grades.

My mother (whose advice I generally agree with!) doesn't think skipping a grade or homeschooling would be good for DS. She thinks he needs to go to school and get some confidence navigating social situations without me. I do see her point! It's problematic for me to drop him off at other kinds of activities because of his severe food allergies. I always have to be there to make sure that he isn't given anything to eat that could send him into anaphylaxis and to keep his emergency meds. At the school, they take care of that issue.

So yes, I have considered homeschooling many times. I even looked at our local cyberschool. What do you think of the K12 curriculum? The cyberschool advertises that the kids can go at their own pace. Is that really true in practice?

Cathy

You're right about the busywork. 1st grade was a tough transition for us. In addition to the longer day, it's also the big "learn to read" year, so I get the impression that it's just generally going to be extra hard for a gifted kid who's way ahead. That's actually why we didn't try to switch teachers before going to home schooling.

I don't use cyberschool and if I know people who are, I don't know that they are, if that makes any sense...

It seems like cyberschool could be a good idea, but I don't know how it works in practice. The only thing I've heard--and this is from someone not doing it--is that at least one program requires you to log in every weekday morning and report test scores by a certain time and such deadlines. This didn't appeal to me. One of the benefits to home schooling for our family is that we can go to the zoo or explore outside or travel when the mood strikes us. But that's just my impression, and the info may not even be accurate. Just something to ask about if you're considering that route...

It sounds like your concerns about home schooling are valid ones. If you want to give your DS more opportunities to spread his wings without you, then home schooling probably isn't going to give him that easily. It's possible to get a kid anything he needs while home schooling, I think, but some experiences are easier to come by than others. Time away from you is probably not an easy experience for him to come by while home schooling.

(However, I find myself wondering if being without you but not spreading his wings is what's happening now...and I'm not sure that's any better.)

Also consider how few truly social situations occur in school. Being in a building full of people does not necessarily mean that a child is getting lots of social interactions, let alone lots of *positive* social interactions. A lot of their time is spent sitting down and shutting up or learning to stand in line or sit in a circle--but that's being socialized, not being social. Different thing altogether, and probably NOT something your child needs to learn, from the sound of him.

As for being truly social, there really isn't a lot of time in a school day for that. About all the social time my son got in 1st grade was lunch--and he sat at the "no nuts" table by himself or with one child the teacher sent over!--and recess, if the frustration didn't lead him to act out and find him having to sit on the wall throughout recess as punishment. *sigh*

Does your DS have friends at school with whom he plays now? Have you observed him during recess? I found that even when he wasn't losing his recess time as punishment, my introverted but usually social child wasn't being very social at recess, I think because he was so unhappy the rest of the day. Once we had him out of public school, he became much more willing to seek out friendships. He feels less different now, believe it or not. He has more friendships and more time to develop them now. Remember that true peers and age-level peers are often not the same thing for HG+ kids. School can be a very lonely place for these kids.

And about the allergies: I was never very trusting of the school. Birthday treats and candy bribes are common and not necessarily free of allergens. And teachers don't always think to check labels. I hovered more at school than I do anywhere else!

One other thought about the allergies, I'd recommend that if you haven't already, you should teach your son not to accept anything--not even candy or cookies--without asking if it contains the allergens. My allergic son asks everyone--even me!--"Does this have nuts in it?" Once he caught me almost giving him something that DID have nuts in it, so it's been a very good strategy for us! We've told him that it's his life, and he has to be responsible about it because we won't always be with him and adults can't always be counted on to remember that he has an allergy. He's been asking the nut question of adults, along with the important explanation "Nuts make me sick" or "I'm allergic," since he was 2.5 or 3, so 4 is not too young to start!

Naturally, I'm not suggesting putting his life completely into his small hands. Of course you must still warn the adults in his life and watch carefully. But I really believe that the earlier these kids get in the habit of thinking of themselves as solely responsible for their own allergies, the better off they'll be. I think it might also help to prevent rebellion later on, where the kid eats something off-limits because mom always says no. If he's been policing himself instead of my policing him, I think that's less likely to happen. And we praise him HEAVILY when he asks about nuts and reward with an even better treat if he has to forego something. It's worked for us. I worry less, and he's got a greater feeling of control over his own life. Good things!

Dunno if any of this helps...

Kriston, it helps a lot to know that someone else is dealing with many of the same issues we are!

I think DS is improving when it comes to socializing at recess. At first, he just kind of stood there and watched the other kids, but now he is starting to interact a bit more. He is more interested in talking to the teachers than the other kids...

He doesn't really seem unhappy at school, but he does daydream when the teacher is talking about the word "is" or similar lessons. He likes to do the art projects (not coloring--they really overdo on that and he is sick of it) and the science table which I volunteer at once a week. He likes singing and he taught himself some sign language from a poster in the room.
Many of these things will not be a big part of first grade, however.

As for the allergies, DS does advocate for himself and always asks people if there are eggs in something. The problem is when the adults say something is safe when they haven't really read the label or when it is something homemade--I'm sure you know what I mean! Our rule for school is that DS can't eat anything unless I have personally checked it. He is very faithful about this and is aware that anaphylaxis can be fatal. I have worked very hard with the school to put safeguards in place. DS has a 504 plan and a health plan for his allergies and the school is required to administer epipen if he has a reaction. So I feel like the school is one place that is reasonably safe for him.

The problem with outside activities is usually that adults who are in charge don't want to be responsible for the epipen. I am planning to have DS wear his epipen next year if he hasn't outgrown his allergies but someone still has to be willing to use it if necessary.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to become an allergy thread! It's just that food allergies can be isolating.

Cathy

Oh Cathy, I can relate to the food allergy isolation. DS had a peanut allergy (which he outgrew at about 7). I found I could not trust people to actually know or answer honestly about what was in the food they were serving. There was the mom who said there were no peanuts in the cookies when there *was* peanut butter. There was the flight attendant who thought DS would be fine with potato chips (fried in peanut oil), there was the Sunday school teacher who said that chocolate candy (with peanuts) wouldn't hurt him because there wasn't much. DS would ask, but he soon learned he couldn't trust adults. This is the only time I have been glad for DS's hypersensitivies. He could smell the peanuts a mile away. He smelled everything before he ate it. That combined with the fact he could read "peanut" from the time he was 2 1/2 meant he was able to check the adults who were trying to pull a fast one on him

Regarding the K12 curriculum, we used it for math only in 4th and 5th grade. DS was at his bricks and mortar public school for everything else, but he took math through our virtual academy.

We found it quite flexible. He took the placement test before he started and passed out of 4th grade math. He started in 5th grade math book and moved through pre-algebra B by the end of 5th. I typically gave him the end of the unit assessment at the beginning of each unit to see what he knew. Then we only did the parts of the unit that he needed help with. I had to go online periodically to document what he had passed and to document how many hours of math he had done.

In return, I have the official transcript showing he had finished the pre-algebra sequence so when he went to middle school this year, they just placed him in algebra without any fuss.

I liked the elementary curriculum they used; there were lots of projects and hands on activities. We thought the pre-algebra sequence was really dull, but because we could skip a lot and I could add stuff to make it more interesting it was OK.

Acs, how did you set up concurrent enrollment in the virtual academy? I'm wondering if this could be an option for DS.

Cathy

Hi Cathy,
I called the virtual academy and asked their policy on dual-enrollment. They had a limited number of slots for dual-enrolled students, but still had a few openings. I had to get his "regular" principal to sign off (When you dual-enroll the schools split the funding for that pupil, so regular school lost a bit of money.) Once we got the paperwork in, it was all pretty easy. I got DS's assignments ready and sent them with him to school; he did them during regular math time and I checked them once he got home and went over the things he needed help with. Occassionally, he had to go online and the teacher at school was happy to let him do that. Because DS is very independent it worked well; had he needed a teacher there to work with him, the set up probably would not have worked out.

Dottie, it's on the 19th. We only get 15 min. I'll have to talk really fast, LOL!

I hope things go well at your conference, too. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Cathy

Prioritize, that list, too! Start at the top and work your way down...

Oh KCab!
I'm so pleased!
Sounds like the teacher is on the right path!
Trin

Lol, I'm stressing about the conference next Monday as well. However, I feel that it is going to be anticlimactic since we have an IEP meeting scheduled for 11/29. I'm not sure I want to say anything at Monday's conference:)

DS (almost 5) has just finished Singapore 1A. He has really taken to it and he amazed me today with a bit of reasoning.

The problem said that someone had 16 objects and gave some away. There were 7 objects left. How many were given away?

He thought for a minute and then said, it must be 9 because 8+8=16 so if I take one from one of the eights to make a 7 and give that one to the other 8 I get 9.

Do you think I should share this kind of thing with his teacher at the conference?

Sure, if you think 1) she'll get it and 2) it will help. Just beware of sounding like you're bragging. WE know you're not, but the advice someone gave here a month or so ago to stick to the child's emotional health really seems smart to me. I suspect anecdotal evidence doesn't help much with most teachers. They either ignore it or feel they must refute it. If they were going to accept it, you probably wouldn't have to bring it up at all. OTOH, asking for help because the child is unhappy and withdrawing (or whatever) seems tailor-made for getting a teacher on-board.

(P.S. That's the second time I gave that secondhand advice about sticking to the emotions without crediting my source. It's good advice, but I feel like I'm plagiarizing! Would the wise party who gave it initially please ID yourself so I can give you credit. Thanks for relieving my guilty conscience! )

He's not really unhappy, just biding his time. Today he told me in the car on the way home that "I can't wait to get to first grade because that will be a lot harder. This Kindergarten is a piece of cake!" I'm afraid he is going to be sorely disappointed by first grade

I hate this! I feel like I'm not allowed to talk openly about my child to the school. We parents have so little power there. I am afraid that advocating for DS will mean the teacher may mistreat him. That already happened to him once at his previous school. I feel like it's impossible for me to come up with the perfect approach that will have the desired result. I'm really feeling very depressed about it right now. I feel sure I'm going screw it up! I'm not the kind of person who relates easily to people. I am perceived as aloof or demanding, especially by other women. Maybe I should send DH to the conference? Has anyone tried that?

BTW, I'm absolutely lousy at conferences myself, so please bear that in mind...

I'm not saying don't focus on academics. I think you're right, Dottie, that you've got to talk about them. But I would think that doing so solely in terms of what's going on in the classroom would get better results. Talking about the effect on the kid seems smart to me.

I just know that whenever I've politely and pleasantly shared with a teacher what DS was doing at home, I got either blank looks/blown off or active refutation along the lines of "All kids do that." But talking about the child's emotional state seems harder for a teacher to ignore.

But what do I know? DS is only 6 and we're now home schooling! Clearly I'm no expert!

Well, I think the conferences went well.

DD: Her teacher wants her to take the GATE test. I'm still unsure about 4th grade GATE teacher. I need to ask around (carefully!) Teacher was surprised that DD scored higher on math test than language arts. Teachers seem to notice that DD has amazing reading skills but since she is a girly-girl they tend to assume she isn't into math <eyeroll>. I told her that DD has been doing EPGY (teacher never heard of it). I found out that unfortunately our school only bought 120 licenses for accelerated reader and those will be going to struggling readers. sigh.

DS: His teacher says that he is very advanced academically although he is the youngest in the class. He needs to work on large motor skills and social skills. She recommends soccer for both those things. He needs to work on handwriting (which looks pretty darn good to me but ok...) Basically, she said it's great for me to do challenging stuff at home (I showed her the Singapore workbook he finished) and to continue doing that. She wants me to have him start writing sentences. I agree with that. There are a couple of other kids in the class who can read so she told me if I come in once a week I can do a reading group with them. She doesn't really have time to do separate lessons for them. She doesn't have time to do any kind of math for him. I believe her! I just don't know what to do... I told her that I am not sure where the best fit for DS will be next year. Neither first nor second grade seems to be right. She suggested that I meet with the school psychologist to figure that out.

So... I have to take some time to digest what was said and figure out my next step.

What do all of you think?

Cathy

Dottie,

I'm glad your conferences went well. I think I can work the reading group into my schedule. I'm already teaching science for her on Fridays! They should pay me, lol!

Cathy

I'm glad your DS enjoys it. I felt a bit awkward about grading Calculus and German papers when I was in high school

Cathy

Cathy, I think it's really good that the teacher supports your afterschooling, and is offering the chancee todo the reading group. Good luck with DD, that a though call.
Smiles,
Trinity

Wow Dottie, That is terrific news. Good for you. and good for them for giving a parent the kind of validation that doesn't come very often. WoW!

Trinity

This doesn't suprise me at all. During the Gifted Conference I attended as part of Splash's Parent Program, it became clear to me that our key struggle as parents of gifted, and ourselves gifted, is

LACK of TRUSTABLE REFERENCE POINTS

Our experience is so deviant from the norm, that we really lack a reasonable yardstick to judge ourselfs from, so we pick a direction, make a step and doubt, doubt, doubt. I mean really, the fact that we are all getting advice from anonymous folks over the Internet is shocking! Although Wonderful! Basically it's here, family members, Nowhere, or occasionally certian schools. That is so much less than it should be for most of us. Which is why I chant the name of my "best books" over and over - Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, Ruf, Rimm, A Nation Decieved, Genius Denied.

Still if we face this lack, I think it's possible to acknowledge the doubts and see that it isn't a defect of you. If you were walking down a dark ally in a bear infested ally, you'd be nervous, right?

Love and More Love,
Trinity

((chuckle))
You are right, we have so much!
The books,
DITD,
Each Other,
Our Families and Friends,
Our Minds,
Our Hearts,
Our Homes,
Our Higher Power

Thanks Dottie,
Trin

As for getting advice from anonymous strangers on the Internet...thankfully there aren't many trolls haunting websites dedicated to gifted education! But if there were, I suspect we'd figure them out immediately and know to ignore them. The GT lingo is just too specific. The only people who are going to use it are people who are living it. It's pretty much self-selecting. (Plus we're not talking about anything salacious, so no one is likely to stumble upon us when they're googling p0rn and decide to yank our chains...)

And I'm so glad for all of you reference points! Just knowing I'm not alone with all of this helps me to keep the bears in the alley at bay. To find gracious people so happy to share their wisdom and experience is wonderful.