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    #4173 11/02/07 10:03 AM
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    horton Offline OP
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    We have a ten year old who tested in college level reading when she was in second grade. She read Harry Potter by herself at 4yrs old. She is gifted in all tested areas but not all at college level. When she was in 2nd grade, she was mostly in junior high level in the other areas. She wants to read all the time. She always has. We don't want her to only read because she doesn't seem to have any friends at all. We were discouraged to find out that none of the kids in school play or talk to her. She is starting to notice, but not like a regular person would. She seems separate from other people. My husband works full time and I work 3 days a week. We try to be with her and her two sibs (younger brother also gifted but very social). We play games with them, teach them Spanish and history, take them on fun trips and try to be a big part of their lives. I worry there is something wrong with my daughter (Algus is her nickname). We know that she can do great things with her life, but what good is that if she is never happy? Is there a specialist in the country for the gifted that has seen this before? We have heard "really gifted autistic" from two school teachers, but I am a pediatrician, and she really doesn't seem to fit that. She is animated and loving to her 5 year old sister and loves cuddling with my husband and I. It seems to be an out of the house thing.

    We live in a relatively small community and would be willing to go see whoever would be best but we are not willing to let her move away from us.

    Any ideas? Horton

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    Is she unhappy now, or are you worried that she will be unhappy?

    It always seems to me that when it comes to friends, the biggest difference is between having 0 friends and having 1, especially for introverted gifted kids, who are by their nature less likely to fit in well with age-peers, are less likely to find intellectual peers, and are less driven to seek out friendships at all.

    Also, gifted kids often have activity-specific friendships that don't go beyond the activity: a chess friend, a softball friend, a friend to play dolls with, etc. This also doesn't necessarily indicate a child who is unhappy or lonely.

    So does she have a friend of any sort in her life? Or is she alone besides her family? This friend doesn't necessarily have to be a school friend, though having a friend at school might reduce the chances that she'll be bullied.

    There's nothing inherently wrong with being a shy introvert, and the child you describe doesn't sound unhappy on the face of it (though you do say she's "starting to notice" that she's somehow different...). The parents' accepting that an introverted personality is okay can go a long way to helping a child to be willing to grow socially.

    My recommendation: find group activities that are appropriate to her interests and intellect. Maybe a kids' book club? Or a gifted support group? She may find someone there with whom she can connect. But don't push. Ask questions about the people she's around, but don't lead her to feel there's something wrong with her if she's not really interested in friendships with the kids she knows. She may just be shy and selective. There's nothing inherently wrong with either of those things!


    Kriston
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    Oh Horton dear! (as in the Horton who hears the who?)

    How awful to hear from school teachers that your daughter might be autistic! I'm guessing that even though you are a pediatrician, and definitly know better, that it still wounds you to think of those moments. UG!

    First Question:
    Is Algus unhappy now? If she is happy and contented, and just not interested in interacting with her classmates, I think it's fine and not a course for worry.

    Is Algus underachieving at school? By this I mean does she get to work at her readiness level at least 20% of the day?

    How does Algus feel about school? Does she like it? hate it?

    What were things like for you and DH in elementary school? Elementary School is particularly difficult for gifted kids because many of them love abstract reasoning, which apparently isn't even on the map of what to expect from an elementary aged kid.

    It's totally normal for a kid who is functioning 5 years ahead of her peers to not interact with them soically, or for them to not interact with her. Ask yourself: If I told my 5 year old that she belonged at a day care center with one year olds, 6 hours a day, because they are her peers, and the adults in the room were under strict orders to not interact with your 5 year old in any way other that what the 1 year olds can do, what kind of behavior would you reasonable expect from your 5 year old, particularly if this situation was to continue for years.

    What if they insisted that she nap when the babies nap, wear a diaper, and lie on her back to have it changed on the changing table, not allow her to use the potty because it would seperate her from the other children and make them jealous and not accept her as a peer. Eat pureed food from a little spoon, and not allow her to feel herself. Ignore her when she spoke in sentences and only respond to single words?

    Sadly, as a pedo you are aware of tragic situation under group care when this has actually happened. You know what the results are from children who were wrongly admitted to group care for mental retardation, and in certian bad orphanages.

    I'm sorry to be so gross, but judging from my friends, I think that medical training teaches one to be calm and rational in emergency situations, and "suck it up" in very difficult circumstances. Afterall, Is Algus's life any worse than yours during residency? How many stories do you know about residents keeling over in hospitals with advanced pneumonia? I hope that you are an exception, but I believe that every medical person should consider making it a policy to "crank up the volume" on that little internal warning voice.

    Once you tell us how the academic fit is at school, we can help problem solve ways to get that to be a closer fit. That may help the social fit as well. If it doesn't - then we can look at summer programs, and joining the YSP so that she can get together with her true peers at least one weekend a year.

    One weekend a year isn't much, but with lots of little teaks it can be enough if it has to be. I'm glad you don't want to send her away - I think that there is a good chance that you can meet her needs at home.

    Love and More Love,
    Trinity



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    horton Offline OP
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    Wow - Everyone is very helpful here. It is nice to talk to others with understanding of the gifted. As for how school was for me - my parents were just like Algus. They are extremely smart, but very disorganized so I really had to be organized and on top of everything. I made friends well until around 8th grade and then I was in sports so much, all my friends were just from the gym and not from school. Dad was homecoming king and everyone has always loved him. My mother had lots of trouble making friends in school. She is now wonderfully popular and has a great life.

    The answer to "Is she happy?" is so difficult. She doesn't interact in school. She loves her new teacher because he recognizes her gifts. She says she doesn't want to do anything after school just, "come home and read." We have put her in an art class and she likes it but she is also the oldest and does better with smaller children. She goes with brother and sister and myself to the children's science center 2 times and week and seems to like that but tends to go off and do her own thing. She would rather not go to school or extracurricular activities. We are in the position where I could homeschool, but there are many problems with that - she is almost above what I can teach and the social "thing" doesn't get fixed.

    We really thought that she should be allowed to have whatever friends she wanted without us judging her. Now though, I think that that may be wrong. She has one girl that comes over and plays at our house. Through some huge stroke of luck, she is a wonderful and friendly girl. The teacher didn't even know that they are friends at school. I don't think that the friend is shunning her, I think that Algus just reads all recess. We know people that have girls her age and we invite them over, but this really stresses Algus out and she will stay in her room reading the whole time. She feels comfortable with the younger boys that brother has over though.

    The school will never be a good fit. We live in a state with no gifted and talented funding. Just this year, there is a part time person for the whole school. He is very nice, but is really doing a pilot program with the 3rd grade (great for brother). He says he takes Algus out and she loves it, but alot of the time, she hasn't done, or can't find her homework and so can't participate. We have great and caring teachers and a great principal, but limited resources. We have talked about online courses and Algus seems to think that would be fun. Dad is worried taking her out to do these makes it even harder to socialize.

    Thanks for your time, it is greatly appreciated.
    Horton


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    horton Offline OP
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    Oh, by the way, it is the one who hears the Who.

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    Luckily Horton, you have two misconceptions about homeschooling.
    1) You don't have to do the direct teaching. You are more like the Manager, lining up a team of providers. If there is a local University you may be able to register for a course there, or perhaps at the local community college. Retired teachers can act as mentors, and online classes exist in wild variety.
    2) Homeschoolers report that their child has more time and opportunity to socialise with people of all ages who can have meaningful connections to the child. If your daughter enjoys playing with her brother's friends this isn't unusual or a problem, she may have just found a group that is more suited to her tastes. Even some of the school peers may be for fun to play with when she isn't forced to deal with them all day "as a group." I think it's a quality time over quantity time question.

    It could be that once the pressure of "holding it together for school" is off, your daughter may find she enjoys some of the group activities she now dislikes. Or she may still hate them, but may love homeschooling so much that she is willing to trade them for the privalige of homeschooling.

    Of course homeschooling isn't the only way. A combination of gradeskips and subject accelerations can go a long way towards bringing your daughter closer to her academic readiness level, which may (or may not) give her a wider variety of kids to become friends with. Her being a "march to the beat of her own drummer" kid may actually be an advantage if she's going to be taking middle school classes this year and high school classes next year. If she isn't going to have a great time socially, she may as well be learning how to work hard at learning, IMHO.

    I have friends who have made the pubilc school work their for 3 profoundly gifted children through gradeskips, subject acceleration, and college classes during the schoolday. ((Yes Mom drives 40 minutes each way, but the school got the ball rolling and cooperates in every way.)) They say that every relationship has areas of overlap where the two people can enjoy each other. I think this is a wonderful way to look at the world. It means that anyone can enjoy anyone, but perhaps can't share as widely with some as with others.

    I do think that there is a big difference between judging a child and having the imagination to see how things could be better and giving a supportive push in that direction. It is as though you are hearing the tiny unhearable parts of your daughter's personality, asking for a hand.

    I would also reccomend the book "High IQ kids" from Freespirit Publishing. It has a terrific article about multiple gradeskips and parenting kids who are as far "out there" as your daughter.

    Great fun talking with you,
    Trinity


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