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    #41434 - 03/15/09 09:12 AM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: Dazed&Confuzed]
    Skylersmommy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/24/08
    Posts: 303
    Originally Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed

    When they look at prisons, are they also including white-collar prisons? Those would have significantly higher IQs I would think.


    When I read this thread this is the first thing I thought about. From what I know about prisons they mix the population. So people who did white collar crimes and people who did violient crimes are in the same place. So I guess maybe the question is what % of the people in prison did white collar crimes? How many of them are gifted? I'm not saying that there aren't gifted in the violient crime population, I just don't think it would be very high.

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    #41435 - 03/15/09 09:27 AM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: Skylersmommy]
    delbows Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/25/06
    Posts: 778
    Loc: Midwest
    I donít think prisons are mixed. I have always understood there are different levels of security based on the violence of the crime. Jails are mixed though.
    Maybe this all depends on which state they are located in.

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    #41439 - 03/15/09 10:23 AM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: delbows]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    M2MyEm: Thank you! That's very, very helpful! That makes much more sense to me.

    Now I just have to figure out a way to get this info to the guy in a way that will persuade him to stop spouting nonsense AND that won't embarrass him. I don't want to make im feel bad; I just want him to stop using fake facts!

    Thanks! (And BTW, further references or discussion are welcome! I'm not trying to shut this thread down or anything. I just wanted to say thanks. smile )
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #41441 - 03/15/09 10:38 AM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: Skylersmommy]
    Mommy2myEm Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/12/07
    Posts: 304
    Originally Posted By: Skylersmommy
    Originally Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed

    When they look at prisons, are they also including white-collar prisons? Those would have significantly higher IQs I would think.


    When I read this thread this is the first thing I thought about. From what I know about prisons they mix the population. So people who did white collar crimes and people who did violient crimes are in the same place. So I guess maybe the question is what % of the people in prison did white collar crimes? How many of them are gifted? I'm not saying that there aren't gifted in the violient crime population, I just don't think it would be very high.


    The book that was referenced earlier (the big link) states something like that people with high IQ commit as many crimes as people with lower IQ, but don't get caught as often. Not sure what they base this statement on, since if you don't get caught, how would you know the IQ of that person?

    The study I found out of Chicago prisons, looked at people with shorter sentences, which would exclude extremely violent crimes IMHO. Also one study out of Louisiana prisons looked at 6,000 inmates across the board, so white collar crimes would be included there also.

    There are so many variables and the studies out there aren't usually looking at IQ alone, but use it as a variable for something else. Therefore getting a cut and dry answer from them isn't always possible. This is an interesting topic though so I will take another look in the database I have.

    Jen

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    #41442 - 03/15/09 11:05 AM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: delbows]
    Skylersmommy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/24/08
    Posts: 303
    Originally Posted By: delbows
    I don&#146;t think prisons are mixed. I have always understood there are different levels of security based on the violence of the crime. Jails are mixed though.
    Maybe this all depends on which state they are located in.


    You may be right about it varies from state to state, that much I don't know. In the state I live I know it's doesn't. They mix them all.

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    #41458 - 03/15/09 01:49 PM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: Mommy2myEm]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    Originally Posted By: Mommy2myEm
    The book that was referenced earlier (the big link) states something like that people with high IQ commit as many crimes as people with lower IQ, but don't get caught as often. Not sure what they base this statement on, since if you don't get caught, how would you know the IQ of that person?


    Jen, as I read that passage, they were theorizing that this might be one of the reasons for a larger percentage of people with below-average IQs in prison. That's why they didn't cite sources. Obviously there's no evidence one way or the other, but it is a logical argument to make.

    Another logical theory might be that fewer people with above-average IQs commit crimes. And I'm sure there are others...
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #41479 - 03/15/09 07:24 PM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: Kriston]
    Austin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/25/08
    Posts: 1840
    Loc: North Texas
    It really depends.

    My maternal uncle was a clinical psychologist and worked with the criminally insane.

    His contention was that the people in prison were the ones who got caught AND who got convicted - meaning the dumb and disadvantaged.

    The smart people who were criminally insane just found a way to mask their crimes, come up with clever crimes, or became satisfied with their lives because they had jobs and careers.

    If you look at all the missing people in the USA, you can only draw the conclusion that there are some very seriously sick and clever people running around. Or they become politicians.








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    #42009 - 03/18/09 11:39 PM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: Austin]
    mizzoumommy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/12/08
    Posts: 103
    This discussion on another board that I frequent, is tangentially related to this thread; so I'm tossing it in: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-pshottopedu&msg=2513.1&ctx=0 I should warn everyone it's from a debate board and the premise is that IQs regress, so that values are more important than inate intelligence. I agree with the second half of that statement to some extent, but not necessarily with the first part. Oh and the question of "what percentage of prisoners are gifted?" came up with reference to ODD, etc. Anyway, I thought it was interesting.

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    #42020 - 03/19/09 06:14 AM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: mizzoumommy]
    Kriston Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/19/07
    Posts: 6145
    Loc: Midwest
    So she's saying that everyone in some prison (somewhere...) is not only GT, but is PG!?!?! Wha-huh? Really? I'm not buying THAT for a second!

    She cites no source because "That's shouldn't be necessary," but that one REALLY needs a source! Not to mention that given her take on GTness, I'm sure not going to be likely to take her word on it!

    Then there are the leaps of logic she's taking. Not everyone with ODD goes on to become a criminal!

    Whew! I need to go get my blood pressure back to normal...not only as a mom of a GT child, but as a teacher of argument. eek
    _________________________
    Kriston
    Mom to DS13 and DS10

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    #42026 - 03/19/09 06:54 AM Re: Anyone know what % of prison inmates are GT? [Re: Kriston]
    BWBShari Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/24/08
    Posts: 1167
    Loc: NM
    How I missed this thread, I don't know but better late than never.

    Did you know that when the US is planning on building a new prison they base the number of beds on the reading scores of the 4th graders in the state?

    Current statistics show that 65% of children in 4th grade are below level in reading. The government has determined that of those 65%, 85% will at some point go to prison.

    The drop out rate of GT kids is 5%. The functional illiteracy rate in prison is 80%. GT kids as a general rule are not illiterate nor functioning below grade level in 4th grade.
    _________________________
    Shari
    Mom to DS 10, DS 11, DS 13
    Ability doesn't make us, Choices do!

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