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    #4057 10/25/07 08:34 PM
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    My son is 10 and in the firth grade. He is advanced in all subjects, but has a virtuoso ability in math. All of his teachers have found him to be exceptional. He has been in TAG since kindergarten, and just started participating in the MathCounts program, which is a math competiton usually for older children. He attends a public school that is quite good academically with many bright children. It's in a university neighborhood and well over 90 percent of the parents have college degrees--many including my wife and I with doctorates. My son is well-adjusted, enjoys sports, and goofing off playing XBOX and watching TV. He's well-liked by his classmates, etc. In other words, there are no apparent psychological issues.

    We are not interesting in accelerating him by placing him in an older grade. With math, for example, 6th grade math would be no more of a challenge than 5th grade math.

    In subjects like reading, writing, social sciences, and foreign languages we feel that he can to a great extent provide challenges for himself by, for example, reading more challenging books and writing more complex stories and essays.

    Math seems to be the problem, and it's more of a problem because of his exceptional abilities. It's not just that he calculates quickly in his head--not only can he do three place multiplication in his head, he taught himself how to do it--but he has already thought up a couple of Number Theory theorems by himself. For example, if you square a number (7x7), and then multiply one number lower and one number higher (6x8), the product will always be one less that the square, 48 (7x7=49, 6x8=48).

    My approach to his math education is two-fold. I would like to see him accelerated through the math curriculum. I recognize that there are topics in the standard curriculum he doesn't know simply because he doesn't hasn't been exposed to them, but I fully expect him to be able to complete the standard high school curriculum before he enters high school. Once he gets to high school, I don't see a problem, since there is a full complement of AP classes, indepdendent study, and the support of taking classes at the local colleges. In fact, the district is willing to allow him to take tests and receive credit in any subject in which he is competent before high school.

    Separately, we would like him to be challenged with math problems that would allow him to use the level of abstraction of which he is capable.

    We recently had a meeting with the school, and they were not willing to provide an accelerated program for him. We said, fine, we'll do it ourselves.

    They did say that they would provide him with enrichment, and work to coordinate with what we are doing at home.

    So we thought we had worked out a plan, not an ideal plan, but a plan nevertheless. Today, the school's curriculum coordinator called me and said his teacher felt that he was doing fine with the 5th grade curriculum, was not even the fastest student (whatever that means), and that she would not be providing any special enrichment for him.

    I responded respectfully that I totally disagreed. I called the district math coordinator who said that the teacher had a responsibility to provide enrichment for all the advanced students, and that I should meet with her, which I'm planning to.

    I'm actually quite angry about this teacher's mis-assessment of the situation. I don't think she will enjoy her meeting with me. I admit though that the math work he is doing in school is so laughably easy that I'm inclined to let him do it, continue with the program on my own, have him take the algebra final exam when he's ready (he's already finished most of an algebra text), and just hold the fort until high school.

    Incidentally, I'm using the Singapore Math program at home. I like it because there's little practice and repetition. They introduce a new concept, and, boom, you're using it. It's the type of program where you can rapidly progress. We're starting at the 5th grade level--there are some foundational elements he neds to be exposed too--but I fully expect to be well into algebra and geometry by the summer.

    I'd appreciate any thoughts about my approach, my plan, and how to deal with his teacher, who is the first not to recognize his ability.

    Thanks.

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    Hi Latichever:
    In my DS case, when he was 10 and in fifth grade we changed schools and DS was put into Algebra class. It was a challenge for him for two reasons :1) we never did anything "ahead" in math at home, so he really never worked a lot with fractions before 2)it took him forever to complete homework - and it was a lot of homework and everyday. But he perserveered and by Christmas everything was back to normal - meaning he was again ahead of others (this time eight graders) in his math class.
    He is now in 7th grade and taking Algebra 2/ Trig.
    After seeing though what he is learning at school, how superficial everything was, we started supplementing with online classes at Art of Problemsolving (www.artofproblemsolving.com).
    He is also participating in Math Olympiad, AMC, Math Kangaroo, Math Matters.
    I have learned so far that it is very difficult but mighty important to keep a balance between my son being challenged to the extend of his abilities and yet not racing too fast through the curriculum. A very, very difficult thing. Please read
    http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php
    Good Luck,
    Ania


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    Hi Latichever -
    Sounds like you have a good perspective on the situation. I'm glad you have built the type of relationship with your child where you can guide him to work at his readiness level at home. ((Applause))
    Reminds me of the saying, "If you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself." Sometimes that's the best approach to use.

    As for the school, there are potential landminds to "fighting" with a teacher in your son's awareness zone. ((I'm guessing that your son's awareness zone is fairly wider and subtler than expected for age.)) See Sylvia Rimm for more details, but even the brightest kid may interperet adults fighting with each other as "I don't have to respect the teacher, she is wrong and dumb." Even if this is true in this particular instance, the attitude may generalize into your son's view of all adults. I'm not suggesting that you accept this particular teachers perspective as "the professional who must not be challenged" but you may want to act that way for your child's sake, whenever you are in your child's view.

    In a way you have two educational subjects:
    1) Protect and develop his Math Talent
    2) Model how adults interact when they have a difference of opinion.

    Best Wishes,
    Trinity


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    Thanks for your replies.

    We have managed to keep my son unaware of any of the specifics of our discussions with the school or his teacher, although he obviously aware that we are supplementing his school work with an independent program.

    My child's teacher, who is reportedly unimpressed with my son, called me, and we're going to meet on Monday. I feel like the school is reneging on an agreement to provide enrichment for my son with her now saying the regular 5th grade curriculum being appropriate. I had spoken to the district math supervisor who said that if my son is in a high ability group, then there should be challenging work for all of them. I'm somewhat ambivalent about trying to demonstrate to her how the my son's capabilities.

    I'm planning to plunge ahead with our independent sprint through the Singapore Math curriculum, but I'd still like to see her do some enrichment. I'm sure my son is better at math than she is. Any thoughts about this meeting would be appreciated.

    Last edited by latichever; 10/26/07 12:29 PM.
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    Hi Latichever:

    I'm pasting a somewhat edited version of a reply I just gave to another comment, because I think it's relevant:

    For your meeting with the teacher, I would ask how she is assessing for beyond-grade-level readiness. Some will say classroom observation. If the teacher says she�ll differentiate based on whatever needs she sees in classroom observation, ask what they do beyond grade level in class on a regular basis to really allow kids to demonstrate their abilities. If they aren�t doing anything, then you have to be bold and tell the teacher that classroom observation will not be enough, and that many bright kids who are bored with a task won�t finish it, and many who have gotten accustomed to work that is too easy will shy away from work that might make them feel less than smart. Also, going with her argument that other kids are "faster," perhaps all of the fastest kids need differentiation. Perhaps she should give all of these fast students an opportunity to be assessed for readiness for above-level work.

    bk

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    Hi Latichever -
    I have some more ideas -
    1) If you haven't already, sign your son up to take the SATs. If you can do this without any special preparation and he scores very high, this will open up lots of information that compares him with others. This will also allow him to take advantage of summer programs. If he scores over 700 in either Math or the old Verbal, he can qualify for SET.
    2) It may be worth putting him in 6th grade math just to change teachers. How, exactly, is person going to offer enrichment if in fact the pupil knows more than the teacher?
    3) You say he has virutoso ability in Math. This worries me. I reccomend saving words like virutoso for demonstrated ability, not potential.
    Here's an online definition:
    NOUN:
    pl. vir�tu�o�sos or vir�tu�o�si (-s) KEY
    A musician with masterly ability, technique, or personal style.
    A person with masterly skill or technique in the arts.
    A person with a strong interest in the fine arts, especially in antiquities.
    Archaic A very learned person.

    I'm not saying that some 10 year olds aren't virtuosos in Math, but they are already Masters, not in need of Mentorship and instruction, as your son seems to be. See the difference?

    BestWishes,
    Trinity


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    acs Offline
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    Originally Posted by Dottie
    I can't wait for DS to at least have exposure to math teachers with secondary certificates. I'm fairly certain my son is ahead of most of your average elementary teachers as well. I've noticed a very frightening void in math abilities in teachers, even GT teachers.

    I agree that a real math teacher goes a long way to helping our kids. DS is in 6th grade, but taking math with the advanced 8th graders. This means a HS curriculum, HS credit, and a HS certified teacher, someone who majored in math in college and loves math. It is everything we hoped it would be--DS is challenged, having fun, and learning to speak the language of math with a mentor. I have used a homeschool curriculum for his math the last two years, and while I am quite comptetent in math, I do not love it--some days I don't even like it! For DS, I think that having a chance to connect with this teacher is more valuable than the course itself.

    Last edited by acs; 10/29/07 10:14 PM.

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