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    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Yes, please tell us what you see yourself doing differently. I'm intrigued!


    Kriston
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    I am curious about the differences as well.
    My daughter found the cartoon last summer about the two ball players. One is American and one is from China.
    The American child says:
    In my school I get summer off so I can hang out for almost three whole months.
    The other child says:
    In China, I go six days a week, all year long.
    American:
    WOW! What are you gonna be when you grow up?
    Other:
    Your boss.

    I don't follow a traditional school schedule in our house and my kids tend to demand a more math and science curriculum.


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    My husband and I once worked with a man whose daughter was highly gifted. The girl's dad told us her SAT score and it was very close to what my husband's son from a previous marriage made. We were curious about the girl because my husband's older son is also highly gifted but had problems in school, found it boring, and decided to take the GED instead of finishing high school. He could make very high scores on tests without trying but for some reason wouldn't do what was required to finish community college classes and dropped out of that too. He was very good with computers and was usually able to get jobs when he wanted to work but he had absolutely no work ethic and would sometimes go months without working and stay on his computer most of the time. When he did work he could find jobs that paid very well even without the degree but then quit because he didn't like dealing with office politics. He's 34 years old and now that he has worked at a convenience store for the last year and a half he wishes he had worked a little harder.

    My husband and I asked our friend how he was able to instill such a good work ethic in his daughter. He said it wasn't anything he did but his Asian wife worked with her after school and maybe that had something to do with it. I remember thinking that was kind of sad that the poor girl went to school all day and had to spend hours doing more school work just to please her mother. That poor girl is now a doctor.

    So here I am trying to homeschool a 10 year old who already knows more than I do about so many things. The older he gets the more he reminds me of his adult brother. He wants to stay on the computer more than he should. When I say something about it he points out all the things he has learned from the internet and he does tend to do things that could be considered educational. I have trouble limiting his time on it because I know he has learned so much more than I knew at his age. When his adult sister has trouble doing something on the computer, she has to call her 10 year old little brother walk her through it and I can see that this might be a useful job skill. If something doesn't work the way it should he is on the internet to find out why and how to fix the problem. He rarely buys anything without checking online reviews and making sure the item is exactly what he wants. He increases his typing speed by using the computer, another job skill.

    I sometimes feel like I am being really mean when I make him practice handwriting and piano and things to help develop motor skills and speed when he would rather work on something on the computer, but I often think of my friend's daughter with the Asian mother who had to work so hard after school but is now living a better life because of her cruel mother.

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    Is the time spend on the computer used wisely or is it used as entertainment? How do you know the difference?

    I think it depends on whether they are productive or not on the computer. The Japanese have a name for kids who are no longer productive - Hikikomori.

    I spend upwards of 18 hours a day on my computers starting when I was 13. But I also had other interests that I pursued including sports, girls, friends, clubs, etc.

    It exists in all societies.

    http://davidpurcell.blogspot.com/2007/10/hikikomori-japanese-educational-system.html

    I really regret some things that I did not do at that age that I could have - due mostly to our financial situation - such as piano lessons, guitar, etc - as well as an even broader and more formal education involving travel. I was fortunate that my mom had a lot of Liberal Arts books around on history, politics, culture - including the some very challenging non-fiction books of the day - and she loved Jazz - which gave me entry into non-scientific ideas.

    If I had to do it all over again, I'd put myself in a rigorous program that had both a classics side (Greek/Roman/Chinese/Japanese) plus the Mathy side. Once that foundation was laid, then around 10 introduce computers and other fields and allow greater freedom to explore since the discipline and broad base is there.

    The big problem with learning from the internet is that most of the world's ideas are not online nor do you learn from interacting with an expert. The facts are superficial and the answers are canned. Its one thing to figure out how to get a short cut to using a software package or fixing a bug, but its another thing to grasp the cruelty of the Athenians or the beauty of Hilbert Spaces. Its very easy to search for a fix than to struggle with coming up with it on your own.

    The knowledge gained from the internet is mostly very, very fragile unless its backed up with some very hard work offline learning the details and the problems in the field and the limits of the tools they are working with.

    Those who get very good at searching it or doing the quick fix have very little depth in the fundamentals and get found out catastrophically. Nor can they handle being unsure. It can be very humiliating for some of today's "internet generation" to get humbled in public by someone who learned all or most of their stuff offline. Its very easy to do.

    They also tend to stick to what they know and what they know is very narrow - and as a result - their ideas are not that original at all - and usually too concrete. They also do not know what completed work or good code looks like - and that most bugs are the sign of a deeper issue.

    How do you appeal to kids like this?

    I suppose if you REALLY want to know something, you will pick up a book, learn it, correspond with the author, seek out thoughtful commentary, connect one work to another, find the unresolved issues, and learn to think abstractly.

    If you cannot just walk away from the internet for a week and just read books, the there is a real issue.




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    Originally Posted by Lori H.
    He increases his typing speed by using the computer, another job skill.

    There are a lot of typists, but very few original thinkers or problem solvers. Does he want to spend his life typing or coming up with the ideas that hundreds if not millions of people will work on?


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    A lot of it is the concentration on school and books and not on sports. Most students are expected to work on their homework. Also, parents are expected to make more decisions for their children based on their experience. Here, kids make many decisions for themselves. There, parents are expected to help choose their professions and their colleges.

    I do see too many kids making decisions here without much data to go on. I guess this is a general lack of respect for age.

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    This thread came to mind when I read an article about three Chinese families struggling with the loss of their children.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/23/china.parents.ohio/index.html

    Quote
    In China, a family's future often rides on the education of its youngest member, and parents routinely mortgage the present for a brighter retirement.


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    Thanks! That was really interesting. I know that there is a lot of pressure in China where education is also tied with "love of country". And parents do whatever they can to educate, even if they cannot afford it.


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    Thanks. We really appreciate your reply. When we read what you said about Hikkomori, he said yes, but there is also Karoshi - death from overwork. I think he wants to find a comfortable place in between the two extremes where he still has time for video games.

    He said he was really impressed with your 18 hours a day on the computer and the fact that you also had time for sports and girls, etc. He wants to know if you used any "Red Bull."

    He likes the idea of doing liberal arts study and we have talked about maybe working on an online liberal arts degree in a few years and he wants to continue reading classic books.

    He also said when you just read a book you are also getting some of the author's bias which is why he likes to read from multiple sources. He still thinks Wikipedia with all of the links to more info is a great resource.

    The only time he was away from the computer for a week was when we went to Disney World and there were lots of things to keep him busy. It is much harder at home with no other kids in the neighborhood and nothing but cows down the road from us.

    I am really glad you mentioned piano and guitar because I don't think he realizes how lucky he is to be able to do these things and I wish he would spend more time practicing.

    I have always heard that music helps people deal with stress and he has been complaining that I have exposed him to too much second-hand stress which he says can be more harmful than second-hand smoke. He argues that being on the computer helps him deal with stress because it takes his mind off other things.

    He is just ten and loves to debate with me. He is also entering puberty and I have a feeling his teenage years are going to be even more challenging for me than his sister's were.


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    Originally Posted by Lori H.
    He said he was really impressed with your 18 hours a day on the computer and the fact that you also had time for sports and girls, etc. He wants to know if you used any "Red Bull."

    You just go without sleep!!

    Originally Posted by Lori H.
    He likes the idea of doing liberal arts study and we have talked about maybe working on an online liberal arts degree in a few years and he wants to continue reading classic books.

    Latin, Greek or Mandarin?

    I'd also study the biographies of the first-rate minds of the last century - Feynman, Fermi, Neumann, Ghandi - who were happy in their lives and who achieved much in many fields.


    Originally Posted by Lori H.
    He also said when you just read a book you are also getting some of the author's bias which is why he likes to read from multiple sources. He still thinks Wikipedia with all of the links to more info is a great resource.
    ...

    I have always heard that music helps people deal with stress and he has been complaining that I have exposed him to too much second-hand stress which he says can be more harmful than second-hand smoke. He argues that being on the computer helps him deal with stress because it takes his mind off other things.

    Hehe.

    Watch out for second hand information, too!!!

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