Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Emotional Baggage and Parenting a Gifted Kid

Dear Ones,

I'm not sure if folks will be ready to talk about this one, but it struck me that many, many gifted kids are the offspring of gifted parents. I do know of some dear souls who grew up gifted and well - accomidated, but that doesn't seem to be the majority of experience. Who knows? Even if our childhoods had been perfectly adaquate, we as a group are very good at finding something to second-guess in almost any situation. Well, that's how it is for me anyway! ((humor alert!!))

So my question is, how has your experience 'growing up gifted' been useful in your current parenting challenge, and where did it cause problems, where do you fear that it will cause more problems in the future?

Mine:
One really odd-nice thing about my mom's family, is that there is a tradition of assuming that all kids can think and understand, even before they can talk. This really threw me for a loop when I entered school and saw that it was actually uncommon for children to be treated as if the thoughts in their heads were more than static. I think it's been a blessing in parenting because it was true that my son had thoughts right from the begining, and it was easy for me to trust my instincts. It's been a curse, bucause it allowed me to pretend that my son was 'average' until he was 7, when someone with more typical expectations would have spotted him at age 2, and I slightly fear it will cause problems in the future because I worry that everyone else is correct and I do treat him as if he were more able to think for himself that he is really ready for.

There are many more, but I'd love to hear from all of you!
Trinity

I don't feel like I have baggage, exactly. It's more like a constant struggle for me to balance idealism and realism. The idealist (part perfectionist?) wants to create the optimal situation for my kids' education. The realist knows that this is not remotely possible--is it even desirable?

When I reflect on my own experiences as a gifted child I can see that there are opportunities for emotional and character growth in less than perfect educational situations. The idealist says that this is only true to a point. There is a limit to what people can tolerate.

To me this seems like many other aspects of parenting--the struggle to find the right balance for each child. For some kids it seems like that zone of balance is a knife edge.

Cathy

Thanks for putting that into words for me, Cathy! I have done battle with the idealism/realism balance my whole life, although it doesn't seem to show up with my son.

With him I notice that finding educational materials that are complicated enough to be interesting, and easy enough to get past his limited frustration tolerance is very challenging. I call it the Goldilocks Problem - this book is too easy! this book is too hard!

I think that if he hadn't been subjected to so many years of such a large mis-fit of educational challenge that his frustration tolerance would be greater, and I have seen slow improvements over the years.

I also know that when the knife edge of balance seems impossibly small, I remind myself that we have a "Goldilocks Problem" and prepare for what looks like a tantrum as my son fights, as if he's fighting for his life, against the tiny little space that his unwillingness to tolerate frustrations has left him. Messy, but I have such hope that this will help him grow into an adult who will be able to follow his dreams.

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Interesting topic and discussion! Thanks, Trinity!

My biggest issue is with my mother, interestingly enough. Every time I make a choice that is different than the ones she made for me, she takes offense. She interprets every different choice I make for my son as a sign that I'm criticizing her choices for me when I was a child.

I'm not! Given the state of gifted education and research 30+ years ago, I think she did everything she could have done for me and more than I could have asked for. She started a whole support group for gifted kids and their parents, for goodness sake! Who does that?!? My mom! (And BTW, I've told her as much. I know the insecurity we feel when we make choices, so I have reassured her that I'm not second-guessing what she did for me back then!)

But even so, times have changed. We know some things now that we didn't know then. And my son is a different sort of kid than I was. His needs are very different from mine, so my choices are necessarily going to be different from hers. She doesn't seem to get that.

But that's really more my mom's baggage, I think. I guess giftedness brings out the baggage of many generations...

So my baggage...My perfectionism, I think, is potentially problematic for me, too, Cathy. Sometimes I have to remind myself that creativity is not neat. Loose ends can be okay. That issue is magnified by the fact that we're home schooling. When you're the teacher, you sort of have to decide if coloring in the lines (figuratively speaking) is the point of the assignment or not. It's an extension of the "pick your battles" parenting saw, I guess.

Oh, and I'm haunted by my "bossy" label from childhood, the one that's so typical of perfectionistic gifted girls. When DH and I were trying to decide how to approach the 1st grade teacher before we pulled DS out for home schooling, I felt the weight of the label. Frankly, it haunts me whenever I have to advocate for change or work in a group. Inevitably, I try to tiptoe around and not step on toes, but I'm coming to the conclusion that people read that as insincerity or falseness in me. I wonder if I wouldn't do better if I would just be my normal bull-in-the-china-shop self. They might hate me, but at least they wouldn't think I was shifty or manipulative or whatever. I always say that I don't speak passive-aggressive, but people often assume that's what I'm doing when I'm trying to be subtle.

Sometimes we just have to be what we are. I'm middle-aged and still trying to come to grips with that. *sigh*

So I guess I hope I can help my son to do better with people than I do. A loud-mothed, bossy, highly social introvert often has trouble getting along with others. I hope my son is more politic than I am!

I loved reading that, Kriston. It made me smile many times. I'm sure I'm labeled as the pushy mom at all 3 of the schools I'm involved with.

For me, my parents gave their 3 daughters a lot of room (they were self-absorbed and mostly absent because of messy divorce). We were all high achievers without any pressure to do so. Luckily we seemed to find brainy friends and had a desire to do well academically. But we all went to gifted magnet schools (so my parents must have been involved in this key decision). Even without encouragement we all went to top-rated universities and graduated. However, I guess deep-down I feel I squandered my talents because I didn't have parental guidance/support or financial liquidity (camps, programs, sports, etc.). I always was working from about age 12 and I think that's valuable in teaching responsibility, but what did I miss out on during those hours and hours? Yearbook, sports, drama, camps, etc.

I'm sure I bring this baggage to my kids every day with my endless stories about "when I was a kid..". My kids are very good about listening and hopefully there is a lesson in each story told. I want my kids to have more adult assistance and guidance in things they want to do/pursue. They should know their parents are there as a safety net, advocates, ride home, etc. If they're doing robotics and the school robots are old and missing pieces, I want them to know I will support their work and even buy the school a new robot. I want them to understand all the opportunities available to them and support them if they want to try things.

I think my heart's in the right place, but I do think this ends up to put a lot of pressure on them. Sometimes it's nice to go under the radar as a kid and not have everything scrutinized and questioned. My oldest is getting an 89 in French because he messed up one assignment. My husband and I interrogated him about it this morning...what, why, who, where,...poor kid. I know he'll bring his grade back up and it doesn't matter, but we couldn't help ourselves.

This is such an interesting topic. DH and I grew up in large families with middle class parents. I was never pushed but I was allowed to pursue my own interests with encouragement. Looking back, I was lazy in ways, when a topic didn't interest me. I felt I wasn't challenged in a mainstream classroom and school was a boring experience for the most part. I finally felt challenged in college, but I had developed poor study habits.

Now I see DD8 with same "lazy" tendencies and due to my baggage I am more sensitive to this. I want her to work hard, do things that may be challenging to her, but engaging at the same time. In recent discussion with her teacher, she was surprised DD likes to do her Challenge math book at home (we do the middle school one) and what our district covers in 4th grade is much less challenging. At school she does what is asked, but often dreads some of the work...

It's interesting to see everyone's experiences and how they influence our view of our children's education. DH was in gifted classes from elementary school and did very well. Our school district does enrichment, which may or may not for gifted children. DD gets small group enrichment, but it's only two days a week.

CFK: both my parents and DH's parents ADAMANTLY opposed acceleration for us. I was subject-accelerated in reading because it was clear that something had to be done, but that was as much as they allowed, and they were always uncomfortable even with that.

Now I wonder...(Though never to them! The not-second-guessing thing again.)

DH and I have always said that school is not a race: the first person finished doesn't win anything. (LOL!) But then again, getting the mandatory part of the education out of the way so you can actually learn something useful doesn't seem like a bad idea. Meh. I suspect that's one of those things that you'll feel like you did wrong no matter what you choose. There are no wrong choices, only different options.

The biggest thing I think I've gleaned from this wonderful forum full of all you wonderful people is that we all do the best we can do, make the best decisions we can make...and then we wring our hands and worry that we've screwed up anyway! Have we screwed up, really? Probably not. The fact that we care and we're trying our best is probably just about enough to serve our kids' needs.

My father-in-law says you put away money for your kids to use for one of three things: college, bail money, or therapy. With gifted kids, the therapy money should probably be divided between both kids and parents, since we both go a little nuts over this stuff! <grin>

Bossy perfectionists, unite!

Interesting.

Do you think of the term "gifted" in that way when some sports announcer talks about a "gifted athlete"?

Just wondering...

Kcab,

I agree with you about the term "gifted athlete". Sometimes it is used to describe a hard working individual and can have a negative meaning. But there are individuals that have natural abilities in a sport. That doesn't exclude hard work as an important factor for success.

I view academic or cognitive giftedness the same. Some people are naturally gifted in this area, but if not nurtured or "trained" to borrow a sports term, they will not be successful. Without adequate stimulation and exposure to various material, gifted children will tune out and under perform.I think this happens too frequently in schools where gifted kids don't fit the norm.

Jeni

Huh. Respectfully submitted IMHO: no, discussing an athlete's performance in terms of a "gift" does not seem to me to diminish their efforts, kcab. "Gifted" and "hard work" are not mutually exclusive. Taking offense that someone said you were a gifted athlete seems to me like taking offense because someone noticed your eye color. I'd say you could certainly respond, "And I work hard, too," but noting that you have some natural ability doesn't seem offensive on its face to me.

I guess I always took "gifted" to mean "a gift from God/nature," so it's not something that can be lost/taken (short of brain injury). And like any other part of who we are that's present in us from birth, there's no hard work required to POSSESS the gift, any more than there's hard work required to grow long legs or naturally superb eye/hand coordination or perfect pitch in music...or brown eyes. The hard work comes when we try to HARNESS the gift. Rest on your laurels and you will certainly lose at least some of the advantage you gained from your fortunate birth, but you're still likely to be more talented than some people who aren't gifted at that thing, no matter how hard they work.

Working hard doesn't make those athletes/gifted kids any less naturally able. It just means they made the best use of their own personal "standard features" instead of squandering them. There are plenty of kids who work hard to achieve in school and ace every test, but who are not gifted. My DH was gifted, but very nearly flunked out of high school because he did not apply himself. (He later came around and used BOTH his natural gifts and hard work, and got a 3.9something in a tough chemical engineering program.)

Am I off-base here?

Oh, I'm 100% with you on the peace! As I said, I meant only respectful and cheerful discussion. I wasn't picking on you or trying to fight. Just interested in your take on this topic.

Your posts have made me really have to think, and I like that. Truth be told, I never really considered what "gifted" meant before this conversation. You made me have to think about it, to consider why the word didn't bother me. That's useful to me, and I'm grateful!

I am indeed coming to the conclusion that I don't agree with your take on this matter--though I didn't know that for sure at the start this discussion--but I absolutely believe that you have every right to your opinion, and I really appreciate your sharing it with me. As a former teacher of argumentative writing (I'm sure that comes as a surprise...NOT!), I place a lot of value on discussing issues with those with whom I disagree even after I realize that I disagree. It's how I a) clarify my own thoughts, and b) test my beliefs--sometimes I decide to change my mind as a result, and sometimes I just reconfirm that my beliefs make sense for me. Both have value.

The one thing I wasn't trying to do was change your mind. I don't know you, really, so I have no investment one way or another in your beliefs. I was actually trying to be sure of my own beliefs on the matter, and I was responding to your question. (Always beware of asking me even a rhetorical question...I will feel compelled to answer! LOL!)

Plus I thought that maybe I'm the only one here who feels this way. If you're speaking for the majority, then I'd kind of like to know that, too.

I hope I didn't offend you. That was not my intention whatsoever! I respect you, respect your right to believe whatever you believe. I hope you DON'T go away! I'm glad that it sounds like you probably won't. You're very interesting to talk with!

May I ask one more question? (And please, feel free to ignore me if I'm being a nuisance! You made it clear that you wouldn't be at all sorry to let this drop. I hear you!)

To what "value/judgement overtones" are you referring? Elitism? Something else? I'm not sure I'm following you, and I'd like to.

Thanks!

kcab and Kriston,

I've been following this conversation with interest. I remember some of the kids in the GT program at my brother's school being called "gifties" (and not in a friendly way) by other kids. It makes me wonder if he would have the same reaction to the word "gifted" that I do.

I don't find it offensive, but I do avoid using it around teachers and other parents. I just have the feeling that if I say my kid is "gifted" that other people interpret that as saying that other kids are "not gifted". I think this is an inherent problem with labels and not specific to the term "gifted".

Politicians (of every stripe!) use this kind of thinking to their advantage. If one group claims a positive-sounding label for themselves their opponents are stuck with its negative-sounding opposite--whether or not it actually describes their position on that particular issue.

By using such a broad term like "gifted" we are sort claiming too much for our group and leaving others with too much negativity, i.e. "non-giftedness." If we use a term with a more limited scope, such as "academically gifted" or "athletically gifted" we are leaving room for those outside our group to have other kinds of gifts instead of no gifts at all.

Cathy

To kcab: May I see if I'm following you? The potentially positive association with the root word "gift" is problematic for you because being "gifted" isn't necessarily a positive thing? Is that right?

I don't mean to beat this horse to a pulp, but I'm feeling dense here...

J

True...and what a shame that is!

It sounds like you had enough going on in your life, J, that you didn't necessarily need one more struggle. But the thought of so many kids going through their entire public school lives without being challenged academically seems to me to be a travesty of what school is supposed to be. Why should athletes and artists who have to work to succeed be different from academically gifted kids? There's no earthly reason for this "coasting" behavior, aside from the convenience of schools and personnel who don't see the value in challenging these kids and/or who don't want to put in the work themselves.

BTW, I know I should really stop chiming in. Sorry. On the bright side, more people are joining this discussion. That's a good thing in my book. I'm loving the responses.

Again, Trinity, thanks for starting this!

Thanks for bringing up the complexity of skipping. I was skipped one grade and vowed to never do that to my child unless it was the only option(that would be my baggage right there). The single grade skip did little to challenge me academically, but I felt like it made my social life harder in elementary and middle school. I had good friends in my old grade and had trouble making new friends once I skipped--I just felt like I didn't fit. And I remember how annoying it was when I finally had made friends that they all started going nuts for boys more than a year before I did (I was a late bloomer to start with and the skip just increased the gap between me and the other girls).

By high school, I had made friends and things went pretty well. I was still not challenged academically, but, as a result, had lots of time to challenge myself socially. I was president of a few clubs and held student body offices. I kept statistics for sports and got to travel around the state with the teams. I am actually a pretty shy person with totally average leadership skills and so these were great opportunities and real challenges for me. I was never going to run for office again in my life, but being really smart in a smallish school gave me many chances to try my wings that I would not have had if I had been skipped up to the point where I would have been challenged academically. I went into college with a lot more poise and confidence because I had already had chances to get out of my comfort zone. I even wondered at the time how much more might have accomplished in HS had I not had that one year of elementary "stolen" from my by skipping.

I just think that there are plenty of ways of challenging kids that do not involve skipping grades and that is what we are trying to do with our son. We have DS subject accelerated in a few subjects and he is doing music, sports, and a foreign language on his own, plus he has plenty of time to run around and play with the neighborhood kids. He is happy. We were offered a skip this year and he turned it down. He says wants to be with his class--I think he feels the same loyalty to his class as I did, and I plan to respect that.

Knowing that most of us feel insecure about our parenting decisions, I am afraid that this posting will create more anxiety. That is not my intent. I do think that there could have been circumstances that would have made me decide to skip DS. I don't suggest that those of you whose kids skipped have done anything wrong or that you should second-guess your decisions. I just suspect that gifted people will have baggage whether they are skipped or not. As Gratified3 said, it's complicated. There are benefits and problems both ways and you have to weigh them for your own circumstance.

What an interesting discussion.

I have found the topic of baggage and parenting overlapping with the term "gifted" lately. As my oldest DD5 has entered the school system this fall I have realized that when discussing her ability I often referred to her as "advanced" or refer directly to her grade level equivalency. I do not use the term "gifted." When others do I am uncomfortable. In fact, a friend pointed out that I would have to stop choking on the word and come to terms with it. I guess I am coming to terms with a number of things at this stage in my life.

As I advocate for DD in school I am bombarded with memories of my own experiences. Like others who have previously postponed my parents did not advocate acceleration. When I recently discussed with my mother about subject acceleration she said it was all teacher driven and she would never have spoken up or challenged the school had nothing ever been done. How fortunate I was to have many exceptional teachers along the way.

Middle school years were difficult. I believe they are for most children regardless of ability. I did not identify with trivial friendships and made up boy-girl relationship. I fared much better in high school when I was able to connect with older students (counter to the old anti-acceleration argument). Academically I had more opportunities to take more interesting classes (at least a couple) and I busied myself with any activity offered. I did not realize until adulthood that my need to join everything from the math club, school play, track, school government, etc. was my attempt to fill the void.

Along with childhood baggage I bring an array of teaching baggage having spent a number of years in the classroom before reinventing myself into an entirely different career. As another poster mentioned I am trying to balance idealism with realism.

Praise is such a tough thing, isn't it?
There are so many kids who need it, and so many kids who are hurt by it.

One of the things I love about posting here is that many of you are kind enough to say that what I say is helpful. It is so healing for me to get praised for my skills that I value, instead of for things that don't even feel like skills to me. When folks make a fuss over 'what came naturally' I get that nervous feeling that my mask is slipping and an attack may follow if I don't run for cover soon. When I get praised for how much I care - then I glow!

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Thanks. Like I said, the horse is dead and I DO get that! But I am almost compulsive about my need to understand a person's position. I think I'm with you now.

Add my positive (and wet!) vibes to yours for California...

When I was in high school (SO many yrs ago!), our gifted cluster was called MG (for Mentally Gifted...as if the term "gifted" didn't offend enough). It was absolutely great, if you were in it. We were excused from any class if we needed to meet with our "MG Mentor" or search college resources. We went to a handful of excellent theater performances and could take the rest of the day off (we'd end up shopping downtown). Recruiters from different colleges would come talk to the girls...another way to get out of class.

One of my best friends who was ranked 4th out of 462 in a city-wide gifted magnet school was so soured on the MG program because of elitism or something (I don't know if I ever figured out why she opposed it) refused to be part of it. I always thought, "Why wouldn't you take advantage of the privileges offered, even if you don't agree with it philosophically?" Maybe she was more sophisticated than I was and had a strong sense of ethics. Or maybe she was stubborn or just not interested--I don't know.

Anyway, we're starting to develop an official gifted ed program for our charter middle school. I've been talking to the president of the governing council, who has previously been biased against gifted programs. The small school has a full-time special ed teacher who works with four students. I explained that this is an amazing program to service the needs of those 4 lower end students and I thought the 4-5 students on the other end deserved the same servicing of their needs. I think this was probably the most persuasive thing in getting him to understand that it wasn't "privileges" I was asking for...but equitably appropriate education. We'll see what comes of it.

I have read these posts with great interest. Recently, another parent and I had a conversation about school. She began to say how everyone is gifted and every parent calls their child gifted. The overuse of this word by the school system has made it where no one is truly gifted anymore. I don't care for the word, but last year our school labeled some gifted children with Superior Cognitive Ability. Not sure which one is worse. I wonder if the label gifted is overused by schools or parents and lost its intended meaning?

My younger brother was a child prodigy in music. I agree with previous posts that even the most talented or "gifted" need proper training. Some things such as pitch or reading music came naturally to him, but he still needed to master his chosen instrument. I saw how hard he worked, but it was fun for him as it was his passion. He ended up majoring as a conductor and is traveling the world with various symphony orchestras. It makes me wonder how many child prodigies are not discovered due to lack of exposure or training?

What I dislike most about the term "gifted" is that it means different things to different people - AND it's used in so many different contexts!

Wow - Seems like only last month when this was the hot topic! I love how active this group has gotten!

((back slapping))
Trinity

This is a very interesting topic. I was thinking about how most of you said you were bored during school and I can't honestly say I remember ever being bored. What I remember doing was bringing whatever novel I was reading, propping up my text book and then reading my book behind it during the lecture portion of the class. After the lecture was over and it was time to do homework, I'd do my homework and that was that. At the time I thought I was really clever and that none of my teacher's must have been smart enough to catch on that I was reading all the time. Looking back on it, I of course realize, that they had to have known what I was doing but because I was making good grades, they didn't care. Let me tell you, I got a LOT of reading done during high school. But I never once considered that I was bored or not being taught something relevant or up to my abilities. I was happy to read!!! :-)

To be honest, both my sister and I knew we were labeled "gifted" but it just wasn't any big deal in our household. We were talked to and treated as people with mind's by our parents and the label really meant nothing. My sister was grade skipped and my poor mother has always felt she ruined my sister's life by letting her skip. She went from an outgoing leader in her class to having few friends and having a hard time fitting in socially. So for her, skipping wasn't good. But maybe she'd have been so bored later that wouldn't have been good either. I had to be pulled out with a group of, to me, "nerdy, brainy, kids" to go to another school once a week for enrichment. This I HATED with a passion. I wasn't one of THEM and the program was the pits. Just extra boring reports and the teacher for some reason took a dislike to me (which had never happened before) so I hated every minute of it.

Honestly, being labeled "gifted" has meant nothing to me in my life except maybe in a negative connotation. That is one reason I started another thread about what you all find positive about being gifted because I wasn't seeing much. I see now there are positive things in being gifted, just not necessarily in being given the label. At least in my case. That is one reason I have been so ambivalent about my child being labeled. But if it will be a good thing for him, then I of course want it.

Now this has been extremely long and rambling but I hope I am making some sense. :-)

I am one of those parents who discover their giftedness when I was reading information about the topic for DD4.

I knew that I was intelligent, but never thought of myself (or my parents) as gifted. In the school I was certainly not bored and have to work hard, even though I really loved learning (still do). On the other hand, I have had all my life very poor vission and that certainly has lowered my academic performance.

I knew as well that I was 'different' but never why and I was a total misfit in the school.

The positive think however is that I never took for granted that I could learn easily and never underestimated the value of hard work.

EandCmom:

To keep busy in class, I wrote notes to my boyfriend while he was still in high school with me (he was 3 years older), and then letters to him when he was away at college.

Your reading during lectures sounds a lot more...edifying...than my love letters!

Dottie - love your "system" and how awful you got called on it on the news!!! Did the teachers say anything to you about it?

Kriston - I don't know how "edifying" a lot of the books I read were. I remember reading the "Flowers in the Attic" (I don't know how to underline) series during the time we read "Romeo and Juliet"!! I did go through a period of obsession with medieval Europe and the kings and queens of that time so I did read a lot about them. I guess that was somewhat "edifying". :-)

EandCmom,
I definitely read a lot in class. At first I was descrete and then I stopped pretending I was doing class work altogether. i think one of my teachers said that he felt better when I read because then he didn't have to feel guilty that he wasn't teaching me anything. In physics, I usually spent time looking for mistakes that the teacher made and then raising my hand to correct him. When my hand went up, he invited me up and I took over (and this is sad, because really I wasn't all that good at physics, just better than my teacher!). And then I had another teacher who gave me a "permanent hall pass" which I carried with me, so I could just get up and walk out (and go to the library, or visit the office, or whatever I wanted) whenever I "needed" to. Really, I just got up and walked out of class without having to ask permission. I held a number of offices and did have fundraisers and such I was planning, so, at least some of the time I went off and took care of business.

These are really happy memories. And I was rarely bored over all, but just didn't find the academic stuff challenging. This may be where my ambivalence about challenging my kid comes from. If I had been working to my academic potential I might not have gotten my treasured permanent hall pass!

I was also like your sister. I skipped first grade and never felt like I found my social footing again until my junior year in high school. I never told my mom how I felt, because I knew she'd feel guilty and I knew she had done what she believed to be best for me. So I got both the under-challenge of a school being too easy and the social disruption of a skip. Nonetheless, I am pretty happy well-adjusted adult. People can be pretty resiliant.

Wow, I just read today's posts, and it brought back such memories for me. Yes, I read other books during class (although I usually read them at the end of class, after I had finished the homework--I spent the lecture time interacting with the teacher). Yes, I too had a system--any homework I didn't finish in period 1, I finished at the end of period 2. I didn't really understand why other kids brought their books home each night instead of leaving them in their locker like I did--I thought, "Isn't that what a locker is for? To store your school books overnight."

I was blessed that in the 7th grade they took 30 of us from the other 900 and put us in an advanced track. No one called us gifted--just "the advanced track." So I had a group of friends through jr. high and high school who thought like I did, had a similar sense of humor, and who would be known as "geeks" today, but back then we were just the really smart people (who didn't know how to dress well!)

I rarely felt bored, being in the advanced track. Also, whenever I felt bored, I wrote--I wrote a lot of poetry and short stories in high school. I really enjoyed taking notes on lectures--isn't that weird! But in grad school, lots of people studied from my notes. I would type them up, and then people would ask to photocopy them.

I didn't skip a grade exactly--in 9th grade I decided I wanted to graduate a year early. So I skipped 11th grade--I had to petition the school to be allowed to do it, but I couldn't wait to get to college. I had to double up in English my senior year, and I never did take the AP Physics class (since I was taking 2 English classes), but I enjoyed it. True, I wasn't really accepted by the senior class that I moved up to, but I didn't care either--I already had my sights set on college. I took CLEP exams and arrived at college with 12 credits of English, Math, and Science, but that let me "drop out" for a semester my junior year to study at the Sorbonne in Paris.

So I don't remember being bored in high school--I would just make up more stuff for me to do.

I DO remember being bored in my college freshman sociology class--I had already studied it in high school--so I sat in the back of the class room and did my Greek homework.

But overall, my academic experience was challenging and enjoyable. That's what makes me confused about my kids. Both are gifted, highly intelligent, whatever the word is today, but both of them hate doing school work. Even though they do it with enough ease (but I also challenge them--they are both one grade advanced for their age, and we use difficult curriculum). I just don't know why they don't have more desire to KNOW and MASTER knowledge. I loved EVERY subject, but neither of my kids has a favorite subject. I can get them to DO their work, but I can't seem to inspire them to LOVE learning. From the start, I've tried to make it fun and enjoyable, but they say, "Mom, I'm not you--I don't like school the way you did." Sometimes I just want to shake them and say, "Look, there's an amazing world around you! Don't you want to know what makes it tick? Don't you want to know what has gotten us to this place in history? Don't you want to know where it is headed tomorrow?" They seem so jaded, and I don't understand it.

So there's one of my Christmas wishes--that my kids would love learning!

It's the old "road not taken" IMHO. I do hope to be given the "answer key" when I get to Heaven. That would be so cool!

I want to point out that most of the poster who were able to entertain themselves are female. Most of the "I have my own agenda, and I'm really angry that I'm not getting it" children we wring our hands about are male. ((not all or always))


The reason I'm always saying that parents of girls (and male "act-in"ers) have to be extra proactive and make sure that the child has lots of experience with true challenge, is that we females, with our fat cross brain-connections and fabulous multitasking abilities are much more able to both "self-differentiate" and to amuse ourselfs by goofing off.

Conditioning or Genetics or both, for now, it's usually our boys who make a splash. Hey, I'm grateful. If it wasn't for my splash-y boy, I wouldn't never have gotten to know this particular dimension of myself. Can you all imagine a Trinity who never quite understood what was "wrong with her" to make her so different, and had only indirect outlets for all that intensity? I shudder to consider the possibility!

Love and More Love,
Trinity

All right miss Dottie, the least you could do is SHARE your great underlining knowledge!! :-) (ya know I'm joking here right????) I can't believe you shattered a door!!!!!! LOL!

acs said "This may be where my ambivalence about challenging my kid comes from. If I had been working to my academic potential I might not have gotten my treasured permanent hall pass!" Too funny that they gave you a permanent hall pass. I would have LOVED that. Sorry you had trouble with your skip too. My sister has turned out all right too so at least it didn't leave too many permanent scars.

Kathi - my boys sound just like yours and it frustrates me so much. They want to do/learn what they want to do/learn and they just don't care that much about the rest of it. I always enjoyed learning just for the sake of learning but they aren't like that. They are thrilled to learn about whatever they are interested in, but they rest they can take or leave. That is hard since a lot of what they have to do in school is not what they love!!! I'm thrilled when their teachers do some fun science kit or some extra exciting math project though instead of just the same old, same old. At least there is enough of that to keep them engaged and interested but they definitely don't love it all like I did.

Trin - Neither of my boys are "act - outers" in school. My older one lives in his head much of the time. I see him in class (I work in the room once a week) and he'll appear to be engaged in what the teacher is saying but I know by the dreamy look on his face that he is off somewhere in his head and not paying a bit of attention to her. It worries me that he isn't more attentive and I am trying to work on that, but it is hard for me to know what to do as I am so opposite of that. It's always something I guess!! :-)

Here is my melt down confession from 8th grade to go with Dottie's broken door. I was deep into reading some novel (Tolkien, I think)in my 8th grade language class. I would have been reading overtly in that class, as the teacher did not care. Part way through class the teacher decided that we should have a spelling bee and sent us all up to the front of the class. When we misspelled a word, we were supposed to go back to our seat. I had left my book on my desk and I really really wanted to get back to it. So when it was my turn I misspelled my word (intentionally, of course) and was sent back to my seat where I happily continued reading. But then the teacher realized what I was up to he made me go back up. I, of course, misspelled the next word that came to me, but he wouldn't let me sit down. So I picked up my book and stormed out of the room and went into the bathroom to read. Aside from feeling pretty embarrassed once I calmed down, there were no actual consequences, but in retrospect I feel really bad about the tough situation I put that poor teacher in.

Wow, this really is an interesting discussion! I love all the "naughty smart kid" stories. :-)

As for my own gifted baggage ... well, it's kind of interesting. Both I and my older sister are identified HG; she's two years older than I am, and her IQ score is 2 points higher than mine. We both skipped second grade. And there, the similarities end.

My sister was a high achiever -- she cared about her grades, and she worked to do well. She was at the top of her class in high school, graduated valedictorian from our fairly exclusive all-girls Catholic high school while taking calculus at the state university, and went on to graduate cum laude from Yale. She's finishing up her doctorate this year -- in Germany.

Me? Well, I was sooo bored and really couldn't care less about my grades. So I stopped working. I did *not* do any more homework than required -- and often didn't even do that. I didn't study; I read over the material the day before the test, and that was it. I usually didn't even read my text books.

I still did well in high school, very well on my ACTs, and got to live in my sister's pretty fabulous shadow -- I got away with a lot more than I would have had she not preceeded me! I went on to college and got one, and then another, bachelor's degree.

The problem is, I don't feel like I've earned anything in my life. I've coasted. I don't know half what I *would* know if I'd put any effort into pretty much *anything.* But I didn't -- because I didn't have to. Even into college, I did the bare lazy minimum, because I could.

I never had a work ethic instilled and this, I think, is what I worry most about with ds5. He hasn't had to really struggle to do anything well (well, except Super Mario Galaxy, at which he is exceptionally persistent). And I don't want him to learn that it's ok to coast on your laurels. I want him to actually have to strive for something -- and earn the feeling of accomplishment when he masters a new skill or gets to that next level.

And that's where, for me, acceleration comes in. I was accelerated one grade. I wish it had been two. My grade skip was very unemotional, and not a very big deal in my life, so I have a pretty positive opinion on grade skipping and acceleration. I can't help but think, if I as a highly gifted child wasn't really satisfied with one grade skip, how on earth is ds supposed to be happy and learn to strive with no grade skips or one grade skip? He's certainly beyond the level I was at that age.

And quite honestly, I do wish I had been "pushed" -- or at least encouraged -- more as a youngster. My parents were very hands off due to a number of family issues and pretty much left my sister and me to our own devices. She had internal motivation for academic success; I did not. A little guidance would have gone a long way.

So my major concern -- and this is my baggage -- is that ds learn to struggle and conquer, whether at academics or athletics or music or *something*!

I so agree with you, Mia. I want resiliant kids who know how to/choose to work hard at something they love.

As baggage goes, that's not terrible to work with, I don't think. Quite noble and good.

Ah, it comes off sounding that way, Kriston. But really, it's that I feel *exceedingly* unsatisfied with what I have done with what I was "gifted" -- although by most standards it looks as though I've done just fine for myself. In my own mind, I haven't -- because I feel like I could have been so much *more.* And not just gone farther in school or done something far more productive with my brains. I mean that even making the same life choices that I have, I could have learned more. And been a better person by having learnt it.

Does that make any sense at all? I just feel like I could have *known* more than I do, and been wiser for it. I *wish* that I'd read all the books I'd been assigned in my first stint in college -- I was one class away from a double major in English, and I'd really only completely read about a third of all the books assigned! I could have learned so much, and I just didn't, because I didn't have to.

I *wish* that I'd had to study more than a few hours to pass my nursing boards. While my peers were putting in literally full weeks to study for the thing, I looked over my notes and a few flashcards the day before I took the test, and I finished it in the minimum allowed questions and in 49 minutes -- they give you up to three hours to pass the test. I actually sat at my computer for a few extra minutes because I was embarrassed to be done so quickly! I didn't have to study, and I feel like I'd be a better RN if I *had* needed to. I certainly would have known a lot more, in a lot more detail than I do now!

In not having to try for anything, I don't feel like I'm the entirely the person I could have been. I feel like I would be a *better* person if I'd had to work hard and learn everything completely and well. And that really bugs me.

So I guess that's a better review of my "gifted baggage" -- and that's something I consider while making decisions for my poor ds! I want him to have the opportunity to really be challenged and stretch his mind.

Mia -
I don't think that it is too late for you to become the person you were meant to be. My guess is that in Parenting you will not be willing to do a "half-way" job. What kind of goal would you need to set so that you would be able to respect yourself IF you could achieve it?

I do think gradeskips help children who need them. But I also think that the best way to ensure that your son doesn't follow in your footsteps, is to .... start walking a new path.

I know you know it, already. I want to cheer you on to figuring out what your own passion is. You deserve to have at least one. What do you love doing?

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Wow, I've been out of town for 4 days and I come back to a very busy board! How great...but now I need to do some serious catching -up!

Its been really interesting reading everyone's posts. Its always refreshing to read something that you could have written yourself. It let's me know that I'm not alone!

I always knew I was different as a child. I think I was more adult than child, if that makes sense. I was always very aware that I saw things very differently than other kids. I entered K at 4 and after some testing they suggested skipping me to 2nd grade. My parents refused. I was already young and I happened to be extremely shy and so they thought it was in my best interest to stay where I was. School was very easy but after a while I became complacent. I never pushed myself, never lived up to my potential. Maybe it was boredom? I easily got decent grades but when I applied myself I would ace everything. Hind sight is certainly 20-20 and looking back I know I know that I should've done so much better. Anyway, I also think I was hiding from the "gifted" label.

It doesn't make sense with respect to how I handled school but I am also a perfectionist. I've had to check that when I'm doing things with the kids, though. Its ok to make mistakes and my kids need to know that and so I work hard at not putting that expectation of perfection on them!

I think one thing I take from my experiences as a "gifted" child that benefits me in raising my GT dd is that I teach her to not feel like she has to hide her giftedness. She knows she thinks differently than other kids and that its ok. She also knows that everyone learns things at different times and to never make someone feel bad for not "getting" it as quickly as she does. She is very comfortable in her gifted skin ( ) and it allows her the confidence to do what she loves without holding back...and for her thats her love of learning.

Was anyone else not identified gifted as a child? I was never identified, went to a small rural catholic school, and was never skipped, accelerated, etc etc etc. And my parents were quite hands off. Which I think almost everyone was at that time.

I had a miserable elementary school experience. I knew I was different, but I didn't know how. I really thought something was wrong with me. I was also very shy and sensitive. Anyway, even having that knowledge would have been very powerful. I basically underachieved and daydreamed to survive. I was totally depressed there.

High school was much better. It was a larger public school that had a group of geeks and it was ok to be one. I also was involved in many extra curriculars. But belive me, I wrote notes and read books in class with the best of them! I did fractions of assigned reading in history books, etc. Anyway - I probably don't have the best work ethic to this day. College wasn't much of a stretch either. I wish I would have pursued something I had a bit more passion about. I pursued technical degrees - which for me were just easy.

Anyway - I really am sensitive to our kids not having an ideal elementary school experience. My husband and I are still not totally on the same page on how to deal with this. And my DS7 is a lot like the boys some of you talked about. Not incredibly excited about learning. Which is sad. I feel like he was as a preschooler and a year and a 1/2 of regular school has made him a bit jaded.

kmick -
Although I was allowed to start Kindy early, I wasn't identified as gifted. I think back then people thought it was bad to talk to your children about their difference. Later on, in High School, when the gifted program started, my younger brother was identified, so I thought that I probably was too, although he was the "astounding" one. I remember a booklet given out by the school that talked about several different types of giftedness. One profile was a child who wrote their paper by embody what they are learning about. The heading of that segment was "I am a Pencil." I remember sitting in the bathroom, reading it on the sly, thinking: This must be the kind I am!

I wonder if any of you also learned that way, about giftedness, I mean.

So yes, I had no idea what was going on until I did, and then I went right into denial ASAP.

Love and More Love,
Pencil

Sort of. I was tested a couple of times and did not qualify, although I vividly remember being TERRIFIED of the tester and the test. I was later put in the program because my teachers pushed it and got me in via portfolio assessment. I always excelled in school and I'm now a mathematician. I am sure I am gifted and that I would do well on an IQ test now. As a child, however, I was extrememly shy, and I also got nervous over things like that.

Ironically, we're going through the same thing with my older DD. She's been referred twice, but she doesn't do well enough on the NNAT to qualify for services. I am sure she is gifted, but she is NOT visual-spatial. She's very verbal. She is grouped with the GT kids for reading, and she helps her GT friends with math. I hope she will get into the program through her OLSAT in the spring. I'm frustrated with the process, but it helps that I had a similar experience, I guess.

As far as high school goes, DH and I were able to challenge ourselves through AP/dual enrollment. My freshman year of college was actually easier than my senior year of high school. I can't say that I was really appropriately challenged in college. Graduate school was the real challenge for me. I'd love to go back!

It absolutely does! I think many/most/all of us who floated along in school feel that kind of disappointment in ourselves. And I confess that I'm still struggling against my own inner sloth. I was always the "teacher's pet" sort of gifted kid, so if I have an external authority to please, I work hard. If not, I'm a slacker. It's not good.

It does seem to be serving me reasonably well in home schooling, happily, since I rarely get too controlling with DS6's work. It makes for much more student-directed learning. But in all other aspects of life, I tend to have a pretty crummy work ethic, at least according to my own personal expectations if not the expectations of the rest of society.


You seem pretty wise to me. Honest!


Of course, even those who have to work hard rarely learn all the stuff they're supposed to learn completely. I think that's pie-in-the-sky, you know?

Here's a thought for you, to consider or ignore, as you like: Perhaps the issue here--or at least a part of it--is the assumption that people who have to work hard to learn are better prepared than you are. Could you have learned more? Sure. But you probably know just as much as your peers even though you didn't work nearly as hard. I realize a big part of what you're talking about is the feeling you have about yourself, not in comparison with others. But you're also comparing, so I don't think it's irrelevant.

The phrase "Work smart, not hard" comes to mind. I get that part of this is "What if I had worked hard *and* smart," but it seems like part is just comparing hard to smart, and that's apples to oranges. You didn't work hard because you didn't have to. Some would say that instead of being wise, you'd have been foolish to do more if you could do less and still attain your goals. It's human nature.

And I'd still say that using that feeling of...insufficiency? unfulfilled promise? inner slacker?...to make sure your child does have to work hard at something is good and noble. Wrenching for you, sure. I don't mean to minimize that! But, really, that's a good and noble goal for all of us.

FWIW...little though it might be...

I think beacause we have such good imaginations we think alot about what an ideal response or behavior would have/ should have been so when we are only pretty good we fall short of what could have/ should have been the best in our mind.
Perfectionism torture begins with a great imagination of what could be and somehow morphs into what we think "should be" because if we could think it we should be able to do it.......
and if its not the best we can think of, then its not good enough..

Well, confused, you aren't confused in this area. I believe that the difference between what we can imagine and what we get is a gifted related variation on perfectionism, that I can "Dissonance." Part of what feed it is that so few of us have had enought experience with resonable references. I know I'm not the only one here who compared themselves to characters in books, which is natural for us, because the only person who was remotely "like me" was to be found in my reading.

What we are trying to do with our children is "get them hooked on the rush of achieving after hard work." That's from Dr. Robin Scader over at UConn, are really wonderful resource. We deserved to have had someone guiding us in that direction as well. It is a rush, and a shame to go through life without. It isn't the only goal in life. Having balance is another biggie. Most folks get one, but not the other, although I don't think it has to be that way.

Trinity

Bump - I just love this thread.

Who could have imagined where this thread would go?
Very amusing and entertaining. BTW, I certainly haven't been creeped by anyone here.
Grinity, have a great AWK and Merry Christmas, you'll be missed while you are gone!
To everyone else, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukaah(sp?), Happy Kwanza and have an excellent winter holiday!!!!!!

your very culturally open-minded pal,
Incog

OMG, this was supposed to be posted under the "INVISIBLE" thread, I haven't started dipping into the Christmas punch yet, I promise

Ugh! I've spent the whole day addressing cards, baking cinnamon bread, helping the kids paint aprons and hats and tote bags for gifts, wrapping hats and tote bags and scarves and shirts, packing boxes, packing suitcases...I'm EXHAUSTED!

Dottie, Incog, pass me a glass, would you please?! I need it!

Shoot, I'm really having PMS so for that reason alone could I have some too?

Grinity I'm glad you bumped this, I missed it somehow before. I am definitely guilty of this. I feel like I know what the ideal response/behavior should be in most instances and when that isn't what happens it makes me feel bad/sad/less than what I think I should be or what I think the situation should be. I have spend a lot of time feeling like I could have done/said something better to make the outcome more as I thought it should be. I've gotten better about it as I've gotten older though but I still tend to second guess myself, especially in my conversations with people. I'm never sure I am coming across as I mean to.

To quote Grinity "I know I'm not the only one here who compared themselves to characters in books, which is natural for us, because the only person who was remotely "like me" was to be found in my reading."

I'd love to know who you compared yourself to! I don't know if the characters in the books I compared myself to were like me or if they were just like who I wanted to be. I loved "Anne of Green Gables" and her wild imagination and Meg with her intelligence and courage from "A Winkle in Time" (still don't know how to underline) as well as tons of others. I was more the shy, bookish girl who lived adventurously through the books I read. (((smiles))) You've brought back some great memories! :-)

This is so fun to find people like me!

Yes, I lived though books--and I fully threw myself into whatever I read. When I was in college, every Christmas break I hid in my room and read all the Chronicles of Narnia, in chronological order of course! To me, I was actually in Narnia, and it always startled me when my mom would knock on the door to call me back into this world for dinner. I don't really remember having one person to whom I compared myself. I remember immersing myself in and experience every book I read. Maybe that's why I enjoy historical books so much--I always feel transported back in time and feel like I have experienced living there at that time.

Once I felt interested in doing missions work in other countries, I read a number of biographies of people who had done that. There were two women who had gone to Africa who really caught my attention, but I remember wanting to be like the woman who was married, and NOT like the one who was single!

My dd has been getting lost in fantasy books this year. I read most of them with her, and it is fun. She likes them because she loves to imagine herself with amazing powers like being able to fly. I'm having a hard time getting her to read a variety of books, though--she doesn't feel like she can exercise her imagination with historical or historical fiction or other types of books. I think she'd like to be a super-hero!

Hum -
Anne Frank, Dagny Taggart from 'Atlas Shrugged' (at age 13!) Ozma of Oz, who BTW grew up as a boy named Tip, Rhyme and Reason from 'The Phantom Tollboth,' Aunt Beast in 'Wrinkle in Time.' also Hesse's Siddartha and the narrator in 'The Prophet.' And Captain Kirk.

Can you guess that I might have judged myself a bit harshly?

Grinity

Wow, Grinity - Rhyme and Reason and Aunt Beast, huh? I'm not familiar with some of the other characters but those are very nurturing characters who bring great wisdom and growth to the other characters in their books. Kind of like you do here!!! :-)

Kathi, my DS would only read Goosebumps for about a year and it worried me that he wasn't broadening his horizons. After he tired of them though, he has turned to all kinds of things! Currently he is loving mysteries (my personal favorite) and all other sorts of things. I'm sure your daughter will branch out eventually but it has to be fun to be a superhero for a little while!! LOL!

Thanks for the compliment.

Wow Searching,
That is a hard concept. Growing up, I was not considered gifted or eligible for any pull-outs or programs except speach therapy. (turns out I am what is now known as 2E) My husband's parents refused to put him in the gifted program because they wanted him to grow up normal. Until our son was born, neither of us had any clue that we were not in fact "normal" and terrible social misfits with low self esteem.

After our son was born, I had all the What to Expect books. At about 9 months old, my husband made me donate them to a shelter since they upset me so much since DS was meeting the milestones so early and there were warnings in them that if your child walks before sitting up then it might be autism and such that had me getting paranoid. To date I think I'm still in a form of GT denial...

In your situation, If your schedules allow, maybe try to get involved in the reading is fundamental program or something similar. It is a great program and also lets you experience the difficulties that some children have with learning to understand the concepts of reading. Big Brothers/Big Sisters might also be a possibility. If he is referring strictly to grades on a report card, keep in mind that many schools have tightened up their grading scale. For example, in my son's district, a 94% is an A-, an 88% is a B-, 80% is a C-, 73% is a D-. A 72% is failing. Our school does not have any + scores either. On many of my son's tests the difference between an A and a C is 1 question. Another thought is to start going to your local school board meetings. You will get a good idea of the priorities of your area as well as meet other parents.

My husband is a perfectionist and has little patience with our son at times. Mostly when DS is not staying focused on his tasks or is making silly guesses at things instead of thinking them through. Things can get tense. However, they are extremely close and share a wide variety of similar interests. Even after they have been going at it, within a few minutes, they usually have their heads together bent over some robot and peace reigns again.

I wish you all the best

It's funny that you write this. Before my DH and I had kids, we, too, worried a great deal about how we would handle it if we had a ND (Normally Developing) child, since GT ran in both our families.

We figured GT we knew pretty well--though that's been a LOT harder than we thought it would be, since child #1 was a lot more GT than we expected him to be!--and a child with serious birth defects or some such problem is hard, but something we felt like we could wrap our heads around. You don't expect that kid to get straight As, you know? But a kid who was a solid C student on his/her best day--that worried us about the kind of parents we'd be. How would we handle it?

The bright side: I think we forgot that we have a good 3 or 4 years with a child before grades and school and that sort of learning matter. Our DS3.5's GT status (or not) is still unclear to us. He may be ND, he may be very differently GT than DS6.5, or he may be 2E (GT with some yet undiagnosed LD). We don't know. But I don't think it has mattered one whit yet. We adore him. He's such a wonderful kid! He's sweet and charming and funny and cuddly, and if it turns out that C is the best grade he ever gets, well, then we'll find something else that he's good at outside of the traditional school subjects.

Naturally, if he does turn out to have some LD, we'll move heaven and earth to get him help. But if this is normal and appropriate for him, then we're happy. We just want what any parent wants: we want him to be a healthy, happy, contributing member of society.

You're going to love that child regardless of his/her IQ. It's not at all the problem I thought it would be. I totally know why you're worried, but I really don't think you need to. That part's EASY; it's EVERYTHING ELSE about parenting that's HARD!

Just to piggy-back on the grading criteria, an 85% is a C at my children�s school

Despite the tough standards at their school, in many classrooms, grades are as much dependant on organizational skills and compliance to routine as by demonstrated understanding of the material. For example, it is policy that when a student is absent, they must find out what they missed from another student, not the teacher. This affects my kids, as well as others, because they are pulled out from class 2-3 times per week for band. Also, my son leaves his classroom everyday to take math with another grade. Both kids have received incomplete information from other students on occasion, however, my son�s classmates have proven routinely unreliable for complete accuracy. Additionally, depending on the teacher, a student loses between 10-50% for late work, which includes correct, completed assignments which are forgotten in homeroom class (often due to failure to anticipate classroom switches during pull-outs and IEP).

Searching,
Ensure your husband understands the criteria used for student evaluation when your future children enter school. It isn�t necessarily based soley on subject matter understanding and intelligence.

Then there are the underachievers for who grades are not a reflection of intelligence.



I

Yes, but those underachievers are the ones whom you figure you just browbeat into doing a better job--before you're an actual parent and understand the delicacy of such things, of course.

A kid who can get an A but doesn't is a very different issue from a child who just can't do better than a C, and not from lack of trying. The latter was the thought that kept me up at night.

Now that I have kids--<shrug>--not so much. You take them where they are, and it all works out. Everyone can learn. Everyone has talents. Parenting is a lot easier in that respect than I thought it would be.

Aimee,

It's good to think about these things before you have kids! Everyone has some vision in mind of what it will be like to be a parent and what their child(ren) will be like. If we didn't, why would we have children? So that's not necessarily a bad thing.

But the reality of becoming a parent is all about accepting the child you are given. This is not limited to whether or not they are gifted, of course. I am talking about the broad spectrum of intellectual and physical abilities, of temperments, interests, even appearance. I don't think I really GOT this until after I had my first child, by the way . When it was time for a second child, though, the responsibility seemed daunting to say the least. It took me years to get up the courage!

On the other hand, nature has prepared you and your husband (in ways that you won't fully understand until it happens!) to accept your child. It is good for you to discuss these things as a couple, but I don't think you can really know how he will respond to his own child based on his reactions to other people's children.

Look for some books on child development and some books on giftedness for you both to read and talk about.

Best wishes!

Cathy

(((Hugs))) It does sound like they are perfectionists. 5th in your class is very good! I certainly wasn't a valedictorian and I was happy about that because I hate giving speeches !

When parents invest too much of their own self-worth in their child's performance there are problems. Of course we are proud of our children but the accomplishments are theirs not ours. Sometimes separating the two is easier said than done!

I understand that you are afraid that your husband may repeat the mistakes of your parents. I think all parents have these kinds of fears and none of us are perfect, for sure!

All the books and magazines give you the impression that if you could just get the right information and follow the right procedure your kids will be happy, well-behaved and maximizing their potential (this is coming from me--a fellow perfectionist ) Well, I have figured out that it is not possible. And that my kids are thriving despite not being happy or well-behaved or perfect all the time. And despite my husband and me not being perfect!

We are all playing it by ear...

Cathy

I completely agree with Cathy. There's no magic formula; you just do the best you can do. Loving your kids solves a whole lot of problems and mistakes.

The best thing you can do is just what you're doing: think about your goals for how you want to treat your children and why. Figure out a parenting philosophy that lines up with those goals. I try to remember that I'm not raising children, I'm raising future adults. But decide what your values and priorities are and try to steer things gently in that general direction...

...Then be prepared to wing it when you actually have the kids, because things will not go as planned!

Dumping perfectionism is a great start. Being aware of the problem there is half the battle, I think. That you know that being 5th instead of 1st in your class was not a life-altering issue will help you avoid that issue.

But there will be other problems. I always say, only half-jokingly, that the best thing to do is pick the way you want to screw up your kids and then be consistent about it; you'll save them money on therapy later if you screw them up the same way all the time instead of jumping around.

My best advice: think about all of this, but don't worry. The fact that you're worried about it now, before you have kids, means that you're probably going to be a spectacular parent! Honest!

So true! It's the parents that don't give this kind of thing a second thought that are the ones that actually have something to worry about!

I worry that DS will get DH and my depression along with the GTness. If he does, I�d like to be able to identify it early on and get him help ASAP. The depression exacerbated problems with my perfectionism. One bad grade turned into more bad grades, b/c if I couldn�t do it well I didn�t want to do it at all. School counselors and teachers thought I wasn�t challenged enough and was being lazy. What I actually needed was therapy.

Srry I missed this for so long Ann,but I can reccomend any book by Martin Seligman, but particularly "The optomistic child." Have you read it?

Of course my answer is to that the BEST way to fight perfectionsim in children is to Make surE that they spend a good deal of their learning time at their 'readiness level.' And of course how you treat them makes some difference as well. Prasing traits that they have some control over is the name of the game, and intercepting those comments on the street if possible.

Good luck,
Grinity

Hi Aimee, welcome!
I think that the above idea is wonderful, although it still might not quite do the trick, so I think that you should look for opportunities when DH gets judgemental at YOU, and figure out how to break through his ODP (other directed perfectionism) ASAP. Some people just don't realize that everyone isn't as they are - and are continually dissapointed. In the adult world, experience in some narrow little area counts for so much that I think it's easy to assume that all competent-at-their-jobs people are 'the same.'

Well good luck, and try Greenspan's book, "Freeing our families from perfectionism."

Smiles,
Grinity

I haven't read it. I'll pick it up. Thanks for your insight and support Grinity. I appreciate it. ((hugs))