Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Am I too focused on 'gifted'?

Sweetie - a lable is only any good if it helps you see clearly 'who' your child is. I hate that show 'Family Guy' but it's a great example of a Mom totally missing the boat on her baby's reality. Most kids, unlike Baby Stuie, are pretty good at figuring out what is expected of them, and if we don't 'make it ok' then they may hide before they even get to school.




My guess is that you buy the items because they appeal to you! We are often, not always, that tree that the little appple didn't fall far from, so what we like, usually the child likes. The only way to know is to get them off the shelf and give it a try! Then we have a chance to observe and nurture, or box up those items. trust your powers of observation - a person who's tagline is 'questioning is what I do' isn't going to fall into a black hole of anything (except self doubt, maybe)


How about seeing yourself as creating a real sense of work ethic? I wouldn't push a toddler, but showing her that there is a whole interesting world out there of learning, and that learning for fun is 'natural' you are setting the stage for tommorow's work ethic.



Keep a journal if you are afraid of loosing your objectivity, but is raising a child who is cut of from her inner love of learning because she 'wants to be like Mommy' a better alternative? I'm might be being a bit extreame here, but I really think that if sexism had never existed, and the U.S. had a healthier view of smartness, a Mother would natually 'share' bits of academics with a toddler just like you toss a soft ball to her or take her to the playground. Can you imagine a parent afraid to toss a kid a ball because she didn't want to be dissapointed that the child really didn't have what it takes to be on the Olympic Softball Team?


I've been there, done that, and it took me years to change signals and really 'be there' for my son. Problem is that being on the other side of the fence involves willful disregard of reality, and that can't be good for a parent-child relationship. Also I put DS into situations that would have been fine for a ND kid, (Daycare with agemates) but let him to believe that the world was full of 'Babies.'

But yes, I totally understand wanting to be able to 'forget' gifted. ((wink))

I would say that as long as 'Character' is your first focus, and 'Gifted' is a servant of 'character' you'll be fine.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

LOL! But what if he wants to study Bariatric Zoology ? (animal obesity).

Dottie, I hear you loud and clear. DS6 is in 2nd grade and got 88% on their own 3rd grade level testing (they require 90% to accelerate - to 3rd). They say this is "survey" testing rather than mastery testing. *sigh* I just don't know eduspeak. He skipped 1st math and I'm not seeing any gaps at all.

How can I get the teacher to understand?? Any suggestions for brief articles that she might get? When I talk about LOG, she puts me the same category of parent that she has to convince aren't that much smarter than the other kids.

Jool, I'd say relax. You are doing the right thing, but it doesn't mean that it will work out everytime you try. Of course we parents all want to make sure that our kids are in an ideal environment, but kids are resilient, if once in a while things don't work out exactly the way we like, chances are kids and parents will be able to cope.

I say this out of my own experience. My DS8 had a terrible year in last year. He was bored silly during math--and he had no weak areas whatsoever--yet the teacher refused to give him any challenge. We talked with the teacher a few times. The answer that we got was "well I know your son is smart but there are many smart kids in my room, some smarter than your son, and none of THEM is bored with my teaching". We didn't fight, because for various reasons we weren't ready to switch DS to a different room or a different school in case that our relationship with the teacher went completely sour. Instead we helped him find interesting material to work on at home, and we made sure that he had enough intellectual stimulation with his extracurricular activities.

This year the new teacher immediately saw that DS's math ability is way ahead of other kids in the classroom, and she gave DS advanced material from the very beginning of the school year and DS works on it at his own pace--as soon as he finishes one level he gets the next level. DS's enthusiasm for math is completely restored.

So what I'm saying is that we should definitely try to arrange the ideal situation for our kids. But we should not put too much pressure on ourselves. If for part of the time in school the kid is not fully challenged it's probably OK. With different teachers each year, things will go better or worse. We can use other means to satisfy our kids' need when things at school don't go so well. So, enjoy the challenge!

I don't want to hijack the topic so we can move this to a new thread if need be.

G3 wrote:
I think it depends on the degree of boredom which of course depends on the kid. As we discussed in another thread, kids experience boredom differently and it's not always related to IQ.

What part of the day is boring? Just one subject? How many years has it been? My son *suffered* for 3years. I see the damage that was done. Do I know w/ 100% certainty that being under-challenged caused it or is it just personality developing? Nope but all I know is I sent an energetic, loved to learn, highly focused kid and when I pulled him out of 3rd grade he is unfocused, no mental stamina, low energy and that bright spark is gone. I do see it returning but it's been a tough several months.


Back on topic: on the subjects of workbooks. I think people get bent out of shape about workbooks. They picture a parent spending HOURS/day with the kid. I had workbooks around the house and if we happened to pick one up for 5min we did. DS liked the "what's wrong with this picture" type books, mazes, connect the dots but we also did tons of play-doh, were outdoors all day spring, fall, half of summer where we did tons of nature study. It's all about balance.

A great curriculum for prekers is FIAR. it's a list of quality books and it gives geography, science, math, social studies, relationships, history etc to point out while reading the book. Things like notice the shadows in the books and figure out where the sun would be located. Many of the books have themes such perseverance, loyalty, stewardship.

I completely agree, Dazey.

I know for a fact that within HOURS of entering a positively intelligence-insulting 1st grade class (where MG girls who had never so much as breathed loudly before were missing recess because of boredom-related bad behavior!), my son's whole personality changed. Changed! Drastically!

He reverted back to his usual sunny self within a day or two of being out of that environment, but he was only in it for a few weeks. I shudder to think about all the harm that "a little bit of boredom" can do to a kid like this!

Granted, this was a pretty extreme situation: an HG+ kid in a class that was really being taught as a remedial class with GOBS of repetition, and there was no differentiated work of any sort. Of course I recognize that there are degrees of boredom, and we had pretty nearly the worst case scenario. Even so, I really do think that a kid who is acting out because of boredom is absolutley crying out for help. (And many kids NOT acting out but who are bored are in danger, too. Perhaps even *more* so in their own way.)

Truly, I don't think you can let it go in anything but the most minor of cases of boredom in school. I think real damage is done: to personality, to self-concept ("I'm always in trouble so I'm a bad kid..."), to ability to accept less than perfection (or more than underachieving), to the child's whole understanding of what school is and why s/he is there at all, and to his/her feelings about parents and teachers and communicating with them or trusting them.

I really think there's an abusive sort of thing going on in many of these situations. We wouldn't say, "Oh, that kid didn't eat enough again today. Well, he's just a little hungry. He needs to learn to accept hunger. It's a part of life." For GT kids, learning is like food. It's not a want, it's a NEED! The responsible adults must see to it that that need is met. Period.

Certainly there are levels of boredom. 15 minutes here or there isn't the end of the world. But if more than just a little of the day is boredom, I really think damage is being done to some degree. The greater the level and amount of boredom, the worse the damage.

I'm sorry to soapbox, but I feel very, very strongly about this.

Here is another take on boredom from http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/03/09/the_joy_of_boredom/?page=1



I wouldn't argue that we are doing our kids a favor by subjecting them to long hours of boredom, but I think there is a middle ground we should be shooting for. I do want my son to be able to tolerate a certain amound of boredom. I do want him to learn how to have a rich inner life and not count on the world to entertain him 24/7. I do want him to appreciate that life is about more than being productive and entertained. I worry that in our high tech, high stimulus, busy world that there is a genuine risk that a child will never have a chance to learn to genuinely entertain himself in his own mind.

I know, Kriston, that you are going to disagree with me on this because we have argued this point before. So let me just say that I think it's right and good to try to get a child into a situation where they are learning and being challenged for as much of the school day as possible and that a genuinely bored kid needs a change of situation. I just don't live in fear of being bored and I don't want my child to be either. If we panic every time a child is bored, I think we send the wrong signals about what their lives ought to be like.

I totally agree (indeed, it is these concerns that gets my-panties-in-a-wad about my own DS6's situation). If the kid is completely bored, they aren't learning anything about the topic per se, but they are still learning. They are learning that teachers are stupid [um..from a 6 year old perspective], school is a waste of time, and they just should get in line and shush up. They are actively NOT learning things too. They are not learning to think, they are not learning to problem solve, and they are not learning respect.

Katelyn, it sounds as though you're doing exactly what you should be doing - providing enough challenge and stimuli for your DD. So forget the 'gifted' tag - it's all a huge continuum anyway, and every single one of us has 'asynchronous development' - i.e. some things are ahead of others in our development. So keep on going what you're doing - just enough to challenge her, yet not frustrate her. She'll let you know!!

And Jool: I think the big question is, is your SON bored or unhappy? That's when you know you DO need to go to bat for him.(And do remember that if you don't go to bat for your child, who wil??) Otherwise, if your child is happy, I agree with the others above that you can take a rest and chill out

Katelyn, I think I may have said this in my prior post but I'll say it again lol, just find a balance. Show your child what you are passionate about, whatever it is (well as long as it's legal lol). Play ball, play on the swings, make music together, read lots, lots of nature study, and occasionally pull out those workbooks lol.

The boredom discussion usually splits two ways b/c half is talking about one thing and the other half something entirely different. And Acs, I realize you're in the camp w/ Kriston and I, I'm talking about folks in general I've spoken about. What Kriston and I mentioned is not a casual state of boredom. My son is bored at home quite often. He'll lay around doing nothing, thinking, and will eventually go off and find something to do. Sometimes he asks me for recommendations and I'll give some which he is free to accept or ignore. I in no way feel like the boy needs to be entertained 24/7.

the boredom we are talking about, and I think Kriston, we need to change our word b/c I've had this conversation sooo many times that I think the word gets in the way, is the kind of mind-numbing boredom that actually prevents learning. When your child comes home and says, "What's the purpose of school? I thought school was a place to learn something?" or when you ask DC what he would like the teacher to do to help him, he responds, "Nothing. The other kids need to learn this stuff and it wouldn't be fair to them if the teacher did something different for me." So this child had accepted his fate. This child would drag his feet walking to the bus every morning and wouldn't even look me in the face. THis child had a breakdown at the door as the bus came down the street crying and screaming "Mommy I just can't take it anymore, I just can't. the day is soooo long. I just can't take it anymore." So, yes I don't think "boredom" is the right word for it and does it a dis-service. Perhaps undernourished to go w/ Kriston's analogy?

I've even gotten from many people "Well learning is not supposed to be fun." huh? or "School is not supposed to be fun." or "School is work."

All of this really boils down to personality. You can have a highly MG (not HG) kid like mine who is climbing the walls w/ under-nourishment. WHereas, you can have a PG+ kid, completely content to doodle all day, sneak books into class, challenge himself by making up his own math word problems and working them in his head and is excited by the social opportunities school affords. It's a difference in personality.

I do think some people are better at living inside their head than others. I love to daydream when bored and have to be careful not to do it when driving. I was counseled to teach DS to daydream. I did my best. I really tried to teach this. His response was "I can't do that in class. I'm supposed to listen to everything the teacher says." I think he had gotten in trouble in K from daydreaming and then would miss some direction or question b/c at that time, he was the kid making up math word problems in his head and trying to answer them. I know b/c he'd tell me about the problem but he wasn't sure he had the right answer. But I thought the teacher was giving those problems and asked the teacher about it. Of course the teacher wasn't asking those kinds of questions of 5yr olds. Turns out it was all in my son's head, after furthering questioning. He learned that that was bad and turned that off completely. Now he can't rely on that as a tool. Sigh..... he's a weird kid.


So I'll end this long diatribe w/ as parents we have to decipher what "boring" means. For my son boring is for things that are both too easy and too hard or simply disinteresting. We're working on expanding his vocabulary so he can describe his feelings better.

Actually, I love it when people say something like this, Dazey, since I agree with this completely.

My next comment after agreeing with them, however, is to ask "So why is my kid not allowed to work?!" I'm not asking for fun. I'm asking for work! Preferably hard work!

I think you're totally right, Dazey, about two different kinds of boredom. Furthermore, I don't think "lazing" as you're discussing, acs, is what school is for. If that's what kids are doing there, then I want mine at home for it! I think confusing work and healthy "lazing" at school is teaching very bad habits to a child.