Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy interpreting NNAT scores

I'm new to this group and to the world of GT. My son last winter took the NNAT (Naglieri non-verbal ability test) as a kindergartener. Our school district (urban, fairly large) gives this test to all the kindergarteners in the district.

My son got a PR-S of 99-9 and a score of 140. Does someone out there know how to interpret these scores? Would this be roughly equivilent to being in the 99th percentile on an IQ test?

We recieved a letter from our school saying our son is gifted, but not at what level. The cut off for the district is a PR of 92. And you can ask for gifted status with a score over 85 and a portfolio. But all kids in the district who are labelled as "gifted" are treated the same. Which at our particular school, means absolutely nothing without a whole lot of advocacy. I'm not even sure they use that info at our school. There is no pull out program or anything like that.

There is a gifted magnet in our district to which you can apply. Which we did. But once you apply, it is by random lottery. We are sitting on a waiting list. So it is totally possible for a non-reading first grader to get in over a child reading at the 4th-6th grade level and working on multiplication and fractions (which would be our kid, of course!).

We are debating our next move. Any advice would be much appreciated. I'm seriously considering looking into homeschooling.

Thanks so much! That at least gives us some perspective on what we're looking at. You'd think if the school district were going to do this testing, they may actually use the data for some useful purpose. But evidently that is asking too much!

I contacted the gifted services department of our school district with our problem, and they are completely non-receptive on using this data to give priority into the gifted magnet school. Maybe they get 10000 phone calls a year. But I suspected probably not scoring in this range.

I'm having a similar problem with the CogAT. My son scored in the 99th percentile for "nonverbal"--as distinguished from "verbal," of course, but also as distinguished from "quantitative," which is a third part of the test.

So what exactly do they test in "nonverbal" if it's neither quantitative nor verbal? Logic? How exactly do you test that in a 6-year-old? And--assuming I'm guessing right that it is logic--how do you test logic in a 6-year-old in a way that uses neither numbers nor words? The instructor who discussed the test results with me just said, "It shows that he's 'in his head' a lot," and she tried to keep moving. It seemed pretty clear to me that she didn't really understand it herself...I know I certainly don't understand it!

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Both my daughters have scored in the 99th percentile too.
My experience with asking teachers about nonverbal has been the same as yours!!
Some vague statements like 'they are tested in their reasoning capabilities' to 'It's an IQ test'...
But on asking my daughters about the questions in the test, it sounds like puzzles, picture and numberical patterns etc seems to be the method.
The question is how do they know if the 5/6 year old just doesn't feel like sitting and answering a bunch of questions on the given day?

There are a few sample questions for the NNAT in this file ...
http://harcourtassessment.com/NR/rdonlyres/F79BD2C3-574D-4C3E-AFF3-00A3BBD48113/0/NNAT_TR.pdf

I do get the feeling that this identifies kids that tend to be gifted more on the math/logic end of the spectrum. If my son went through a full IQ test, I'm sure he'd score less strong verbally, than logically and mathematically. He is very strong spatially. He's been doing lego sets for teenagers since he was 4. My husband and I both have multiple technical degress, so it seems logical.

Talking to a few other parents, I know that there are reading kindergarteners who were not identified at the 92% level on the NNAT. However, most of them also had fairly rigorous all day preschool programs, so maybe that is a factor as well? Especially some of the Montissouris around here seem to really push reading for Pre-k when the kids do full day.

And I do agree - it is totally possible for a kindergartener not to be able to do their best on this! It seems like a useful tool for diverse school districts as a baseline. Our district does testing at the 2nd grade level also, and at any other grade by request.

Teaching oneself to read is one thing, being able to be taught to read is another thing, standing on the kitchen table and demanding to be taught to read is another thing entirely, yes?

"Reading" in Kindergarden can be
"See Spot Run"
Magic Tree House Books
Harry Potter

Again - all gifted, but all having different educational needs.

Most schools are unaware of "levels of giftedness" or areas of giftedness, and offer "one size fits all" accomidations if any. But, with gradeskips, subject acceleration and the offered programs, often a good program can be fit to the individual child. Of course, Homeschooling has some advantages that will rarely be found at the elementary level.

Again - some PG kids, including mine, are not advanced readers - mine was reading Magic Tree House books at the end of 1st grade. But he was thinking about things on a much deeper than average way even back then.

Best Wishes,
Trinity

Very interesting discussion! Thanks for the help. My son has been a puzzle and pattern freak almost literally since birth, so the Nonverbal test WOULD be the one he would ace! In fact, he missed one question...I actually have to wonder if they keyed it wrong! LOL!

BTW, he had also been reading books for over 2 full years when he took the test, but he was only in the 87th percentile on Verbal. Given that his WJ-III of Achievement (taken at the same time) was 154 for Broad Reading and 159 for Broad Written Language, we think he's operating on a level of verbal expression and understanding more advanced than the 87th percentile!

Obviously, we're thinking the CogAT wasn't exactly the verbal test for him...At least the achievement tests and his overall CogAT score of 98th percentile were enough to get him IDd as gifted. Now if only the teacher he had in school this year had a clue about how to challenge him...

...Not that I'm bitter! Oh, wait, yes I am! And that's why we're on Day #2 of homeschooling!

It is interesting! My son was actually NOT a reader before kindergarten - but definitely the lego, maze, suduko dude. He actually hit the ceiling of the pattern matching part of the NNAT test. I remember walking down the street with him when he was younger and he would make patterns of the trees on the boulevard.

My son went from not being interested in reading on his own to reading at 4th to 6th grade level in about 9 months. Once he figured out he could read books like Captain Underpants on his own, he was totally into it. ;-) High quality literature, I know. I definitely think he is a Visual-Spatial learner. It's all or nothing with him.

The pattern guys are always fun to watch. I don't think my brain is wired that way, but my son is just like yours--everything is a pattern. Maybe that's why maps are like hieroglypics to me. Ha!

Oh, and thank goodness for Captain Underpants! They got my son off the "baby" books and into chapter books. He had the capacity for a while, but not the interest.

Your "all or nothing" comment intrigues me. In what way do you mean?

Here is a page on visual spatial learners that lists traits they may have.
http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm

One of the traits they list is "learning concepts all at once" as opposed to incrementally. My son seems to go from not understanding or knowing certain things to learning them overnight. Like riding a bike and swimming. Or multiplying or reading. We do piano with him. The first 3-6 months were really slow. Now he is miles ahead of most other students his age.

I don't think mainstream classrooms are usually the best for these kind of learners? Maybe someone else knows more about it?

My husband and I are both this way too. I feel like I'm getting a lot better feel for my diasastrous elementary school career researching this stuff for my son!