Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy It's too much work: minivent and frustration

ok... I have to add the line i have heard at every one of those meeting they have to tell you whats "wrong" with your kid.... it's supposed to be about looking for ways to keep him engaged, but instead... anyway... here is the line.....

are you ready....... brace yourself

"Just let your kid be a kid"

At his point I want to start answering creatively, "No, I was going to have him be an elephant, or maybe an ice cube tray...."

I swear if one more person says that to me I will lose it! (Ok, really I won't....... but in my head I will.... in my head there will be screaming....lol I am sure many of you have been here)

LOL! I dare you to say you were going to let him be an ice cube tray!

No, not really. Don't do that. But you can think it and let a Mona Lisa smile creep onto your face. <smirk>

I think that saying something like "I *am* letting him be a kid, and this is the kind of kid he is. This isn't coming from me; it's coming from him. All kids are different, and I am letting him be himself" is the right idea.

The Jan 8 More Child Blog includes a list of possible problems faced by the gifted child. One of them is:
I hadn't seen that before but it made sense. Like middle school, parenting triggers a great deal of comparing ourselves to others. It seems to be compounded by giftedness, so don't be too hard on yourself.

I am just seeing your response. That makes a lot of sense, although, it isn't necessarily an issue of "comparing" for me, but rather one of acceptance. For example, if I share anything that we do, (not randomly, just something that fits within the conversation) it's quite inevitable that someone will say to me, "You homeschool, there's no reason to push". What?! Why even say that to me? Especially given that they've have known me for months, albeit mostly at Park Dates when our children tend to spend time running amuk. It's just so frustrating! And happens no matter what I share!

For example this last time, we were talking about teaching our children the importance of follow through. I said that Boo has great follow through and focus when it's 100% on her terms, but that things can't always be 100% that way. She needs to do things because they are important, follow her actions through to their end (nothing dangerous or detrimental, of course).

Everyone gave an example of how this played out in their homes, recently, and I shared that Boo wanted to do "school". So I asked her to decided what she wanted, gathered the materials and helped her get started but that almost immediately she wanted to do something else and I just said "This is what you chose to do. This is your current task and you can do something else once it's complete. If you focus for a few short minutes, you'll be done very quickly" and whenever she got up to do something else, I'd direct her back to the table. The whole thing took less than 10 minutes with more than half that being my reminder to go finish what she started. Once she did it, she wanted to do more and I ended up having to stop her (needed the table back for dinner). She never would have done it or felt the sense of accomplishment if I hadn't *required* her to follow through on her choice. No the world wouldn't have ended, but it isn't as though I was having her do something that was beyond her abilities or interest. And yes, I do think it's fine for people, regardless of age, to change their minds. I do subscribe to the philosophy that as a parent it's important that I inspire my children and not require them to do things. They should be inspired to learn and they are! They love doing it, but sometimes I do think a bit of requirement in learning and life in general is important. I want to raise them to learn and do positive things because they have the drive to do those things internally, however what is wrong with saying and modeling and "requiring" that they finish what they start? I truly don't understand what I did that was so terrible. Please someone explain it to me. Use small words; I'm obviously not "getting" it.

Or the other night when the topic of reasons some homeschoolers might send their children back to school, someone mentioned the GATE program and in the same breath condemned any parent who would consider placing a child in such a program as clearly pushy - why else would they choose to have their child(ren) in GATE, et. al. I made an attempt to explain that there is such a thing as intellectual giftedness and not only does it exist there is a wide range of giftedness. Some kids need more, they learn at a faster pace, make connections deeper and between subjects more quickly than a child that is not gifted might, and programs such as GATE might be just what the child needs - depending on the child's needs and how the program is setup. That was all poo-pooed.

This then lead to my being on the receiving end of a patronizing look and the comment: "Kids even out by third grade. It's pretty much a given. Kids that don't even out, are...well, they are just the ones that tend to be weird throughout their lives." No amount of my saying, "All kids are different, even in the same family" makes a difference.

This is often, not always, but usually followed by at least one person backing this general idea by saying that they're "right" re: child development, because X methodolgy fits their child to a "T". Waldorf is one such method that is brought: "Waldorf states children should not be exposed to print until around age 8, because they aren't ready (mentally) to learn to read until then. Any parent who has a child that reads earlier, especially a very young child is just pushing them. I know because Waldorf's guidelines are spot on with my child. A kid might *seem* like they know stuff earlier but really they don't and they'll all be on the same page when they are 8 anyway." And this is supposed to be proof of *what* exactly?????? That some kids fall under that particular spectrum? Sure, I agree. I disagree with the notion that it applies to all kids, in all cases.


Don't get me started on the why would anyone want a 4 year old to read...or the why would a 4 year old *need* to read...or what would a 4 year old read, anyway? The first two implying that a 4 year old reads only because her parents pushed her into it and the latter implying that a 4 year old couldn't possibly comprehend what he read. These are from people who have seen *and* heard my 4 year old read (and my 3 year old do simple math: "Hey you have 8 gumdrops that's 3 more than me!"). Are they being purposely obtuse?

The *kicker* is that I like my group. I really do! Everyone brings something different to the table and I like everyone, too. When the topic of giftedness comes up (and I *NEVER* even mention the word or bring up the topic myself), however, I end up feeling isolated and sometimes the urge to vomit is quite strong.

Thank you for letting me vent. I didn't realize how much I needed that until I started typing.

Mizzou

Oh mizzou,

I know everyone is saying you have to become thick skinned but let's face it...it hurts. What if you marched in and started making comments about what is wrong with your children? Why aren't they able to do such and such? The roof would come crashing down. It is inappropriate such as the comments you are experiencing (Okay such as the comments we have ALL heard) but for some reason we as a society think we A. have the right to butt in and B. need to because clearly the mother of said child is doing something wrong if he/she is not like the rest of the children. Why can't people grasp that their are intelligent individuals in the world and they had to start some where! Do they think that all of a sudden these genious blossomed? Isn't fair to assume that they (the genius) was a child that showed signs? I am so tired of how people think it is okay to say the comments they do and recycle the generic krap that is ridiculous and hurtful. And when you get in those situations even if you try to set them straight with facts they will never believe it. They are set in their ways and you arguing the opposite is another ammo placed on the fire for pushing your child. It is a no win situtation.

The funny thing is if you have read any of the homeschool posts than you are aware that I have been an anti-homeschooler forever but even in that realm I never ever thought that a parent was pushing their child. I just questioned how can you really be able to do justice for the topics you are weak in and of course the social aspect. But never fear I am coming around.

Oh, so sorry, Mizzou! It sounds like you're in a group that really doesn't get GTness. Sadly, this can be pretty common in homeschooling groups. Some resist labels so strongly that they pooh-pooh GTness, LDs, and anything else that can really help us to figure out how to approach teaching our kids. I find this utter rejection of labels to be as senseless as those who must cling to a label regardless of all evidence to the contrary. Labels are tools. Nothing more, nothing less. They can be very helpful if used properly.

I have to admit, I find Waldorf to be screwy. Anything that says "No child should be allowed to do X until they are X years old" doesn't respect the individual. Period. If you're dealing with someone who is quoting the Waldorf Method to you chapter and verse, then you probably ought to just drop it. You're not going to find common ground. IMHO...

To be honest, I avoid talking GT stuff to my homeschooler friends unless I know they accept the premises of GTness. It's just easier. And people who accept both GTness and homeschooling are out there. You may just not have found them yet.

You don't sound competitive or comparing. You just sound frustrated and wishing that someone around you accepted your reality. I wish they did, too. At least you have us!

My best advice: stop talking about your kids. The other parents will either see that your kids are way ahead on their own, but are also happy, healthy, "normal" people who are not being pushed, or they won't. Either way, it's not your problem. Talk about the weather, curriculum, the news...anything but GTness and how far ahead your kids are.

To cite another thread, it may be time to put on the intellectual overcoat and stop flashing these people!

I know. Ugh, boy do I know! I don't just talk about them randomly or in a braggy sort of way or anything like that. I only mention things that I think are both relevent and will add something to the conversation. I *never* mention GTness, except in the situation I mentioned above where I gave some reasons as to why a homeschool parent would choose to place their child in a GATE program; no mention of my kids in any way, shape or form. Nor do I *ever, ever, ever* make any reference to how far ahead my kids are. I don't talk about what grade levels they are working on or even the subjects or anything like that. Even so, just mentioning something like what I posted above, which was in essence, simply having my daughter complete a task that *she* chose, was viewed as pushy on my part.

What it really means is that my participation in conversations will be reduced to the role of an observer. I can't pull from my experience even if it's relevent to the topic at hand, talking about the weather only goes so far, discussions on curriculum are limited because even the questions I ask raise eyebrows and illicit comments and if I comment on the various curricula *that* usually brings about a whole 'nother set of questions/comments. And talking about the news in my group is, in general, a bad idea. It would however keep people busy so that they couldn't comment on my kids, but it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing.

It's a hard line to toe and as I said if it weren't from some of the obtuse and asinine comments re: GTness (and not just about my kids, but GT in general), I'd be very happy with the group. This is the first group that I have found that I really like the majority of the group, but the GT issue causes an unspoken divide. I try to bridge the gap by leaving it out of things and by showing that I am accepting of them and their parenting at face value and that I believe they are doing what they feel is best for their child(ren) because they *know* their kid(s). I'd just like the same for me.

I'd like people to accept that I know my kids and that I don't do things to push them and that the things I do *are* appropriate for who my children are as individuals. I don't need "approval" but the bashing that creeps in constantly is starting to wear me down.

At this point, even though I know I am not pushing and I know that I know my kids, I still feel so "guilty" like I am doing something "wrong". I know I'm not, but it's there nagging at me. I want to grab it and stomp at it, but I can't because it's "conditioned".

Bleh!

Honestly, I think you might need a different group. I hate to say that, but there are lots of perfectly nice people out there who don't accept me for who I am. As long as they don't, I can't be myself with them, and the result is that they're never going to be real friends whom I can depend on.

So you have a choice: 1) keep up this superficial relationship where you are, indeed, mostly a silent observer, biting her tongue and putting up with comments that frustrate and perhaps even offend you, 2) stand up to them and make an issue of the GT thing to let them know how you really feel, risking your position in the group with the conflict, or 3) find another group.

Which you choose is pretty much solely dependent upon your personality and how likely you are to find a better match.

I can tell you that I spent several years in a pre-K playgroup with women that sound a lot like the ones you describe. I kept my mouth shut and survived it, but I was really desperate to find a place where I fit in by the end of that time. It did not leave me feeling whole and complete. It left me feeling stifled and frustrated.

Of course, you have this forum, and at the time I had nothing of the sort. Maybe you can pour all that out here and keep your polite smile in place there? Maybe? Or are you not that desperate? (I was pretty desperate for adult conversation of any sort at the time...)

I dunno if I'm helping.

Regardless, I've been where you are, and it's just no fun. I really do sympathize with you.

I am incredibly grateful for this forum! I do need that adult conversation. It's really wonderful to be able to connect with other homeschool moms. I don't know how much longer I can keep the smile plastered while someone knocks GTness or makes a comment like, "You know that kids don't understand abstract thinking until they are 9, so they can't really do math in their heads until at least that age. They can act like they know it, but they really don't" after observing Boo run up to me and say, "Mom, I want to buy 4 popscicle from the ice cream man and they cost $1.25 each and I only have $4.53. I need 47 cents. If you give me two quarters, I'll bring back the change." The GT thing is the only real hurdle I have, but it, unfortunately is a big one.

You are helping! Thank you!

Well, if the kids are happy and you're invested, then I say bite your tongue there and let it all out here. Maybe you can find a way to be subversive and convert them all slowly!

I'm really disappointed in the ageism of that homeschool group though. I have to say that's been one of the nice things about homeschool groups around my neck of the woods: parents simply don't care about the ages of the kids, and if 6yos and 12yos are happily playing together, well, that's just more time for us adults to be left alone. GT might be a taboo word--though I haven't heard it actively bashed--but they totally accept the idea that every kid is at a different place in every subject, and that's perfectly okay. It's very accepting in that way. As far as I'm concerned, that recognition of levels of learning and levels of social readiness--GT or no--is what really matters.

The strict lines your group seems to be drawing strike me as unusual for a homeschooling group. Is that the norm there? Or is this group just unusual that way?