Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Sanity check, please? (long, sorry!)

You all were so helpful on helping us determine when to have our son tested....I'd like some honest opinions on a situation we faced today that has really unsettled us.

Our son (4.4) is being tested next week, but we know that he's gifted to at least some extent. He has incredible recall ability, talks more like a 12YO than a 4YO (vocabulary, sentence structure, etc.), creates elaborate games and situations that he expects everyone to play with him (and hence does have some issues playing with other kids his age), reads words when he wants to (though as soon as we got "excited" that he could do it, he decided he "didn't want to read anymore..."), and can do quite a bit addition and subtraction. He's a little adult, for better or worse.

We have him in a Montessori school (he just started his second year), and we did that specifically so that he could move at his own pace. It hasn't gone well...his entire 3YO year was devoted to "practical life" lessons (sweeping, mirror polishing, etc.). Though we repeatedly asked if he could be introduced to more challenging academic work, we were rebuffed that we needed to "trust the methodology, etc." So far this year, he has gotten two new lessons - one on lacing (sewing) cards and one on putting together pages to make a book.

The problem is that he is a discipline problem - he acts out almost every day by getting into another child's work (primarily the older children), violating others' personal space (pushing on them to see what they are doing, etc.), "antagonizing" the animals in the classroom, taking apart classroom materials, etc. To hear them describe it, he is a real menace.

Our experience at home is that if his mind is occupied, he is a dream. If he is bored, he "entertains" himself, and that usually does involve "bad" behavior. At a conference last year, we discussed this observation about our son and asked that he be given more challenges in the classroom and asked that he be introduced to some academic work. That happened for a short period (and his behavior was excellent) and then diminished toward the end of the year (and he fell off the wagon). It is extremely clear to us that he is bored to tears at school, hence why he doesn't want to go and is acting out.

We were called in today (after some particularly bad behavior) and had decided it was time to really advocate for him - last year, we tried to trust the "experts." We were dumbfounded to hear their assessment of him - it was all about behavior, none about ability - and they basically gave him 4 weeks or they'll kick him out. AND, they gave us the name of an "parenting psychologist" that we are essentially required to contact because it is obvious to them that he is "crying out to us to set limits for him." When we asked them to PLEASE try more challenging work, we basically were told that they will "follow the normal course of work for a 4 year old" and that "lessons are planned out far in advance."

Has anyone else had an obviously highly intelligent child who totally can't control himself in a classroom like this? Are we really bad parents? Should we keep trying or should we pull him out and homeschool him this year? If we do that, does it send a message to him that his behavior is okay? We are totally shell-shocked tonight and reeling...any thoughts at all (even unstructured ones!) would be great!

We were fortunately spared this problem in preschool, I think because DS's school allowed them to use educational computer programs a few hours a day, so DS got to learn plenty of stuff at this own pace, then he could be patient through the other things because he'd gotten his "fix". It sounds like your school is not so adaptable.

You might want to check out this site as part of your reality check. http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10226.aspx It talks about ADD behavior vs. gifted behavior. Basically, you will see the pattern you are describing--as long as the drive to learn is being met, the behavior is fine. But when not fed intellectually, the child becomes restless and bored and acts out. I don't know if the school will be able to appreciate the difference, but at least you will feel saner!

It definitely sounds like you need to find some other option for your son. This school is not working out. If you do decide to take him out of school I would advise you *not* tell your son that it had anything to do with his behavior one way or the other. Be vague or give him some other reason that will make sense to him.

I have been helping my son recover from a poorly managed early entrance to Kindergarten. He is doing Kindergarten again this year in a different school. Even though the work is very easy for him, he is so happy this year in a class with a teacher who accepts him!

From your description of the situation at your son's school, his teachers are very unhappy with him. They view him as a behavior problem and so, naturally, he fulfills those expectations. My son's teacher last year decided that he was immature and a burden to her. She treated him that way and so he played that role. My reaction was like yours--the description she gave of my son was so different from how he is at home it was shocking. She didn't seem to understand my son at all. It seemed almost like she was willfully misunderstanding him!

Here's an example: One day I came to pick him up at school and she reported to me that he had been misbehaving and "having a tantrum". I asked her to tell me what happened. She said that two other boys were playing with something and DS wanted it and had a tantrum. I turned to my son and asked him what the boys were playing with. He said they were playing with a cord. I said, "A cord?" The teacher said, yes, the computer was unplugged and they were playing with the cord (!?!) pretending it was a snake. My son says, "Mommy, cords are dangerous because they have electricity in them! I tried to tell the boys to stop, but they wouldn't so I told Ms. [teacher]" I told the teacher that my son was upset because he was concerned for the boys' safety. Her response was that I always make excuses for my son's bad behavior, but that other parents discipline their kids.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to turn into a thread about my family, I just want you to know that I think I understand what you're going through!

Cathy

Hi NTT,
First things first. If he is being tested next week - can yo possibly take a week off and just hang out with him, go to field trips for now. The last thing you want is for him to walk out a classroom where he is a "bad guy" and into a testing enviroment. It's not critical, but if you can do it - just do it, ok?

BTW - you can fib and say it is because you had so many ideas of fun things to do that you couldn't wait until the next vacation. You don't have to do full disclosure in this particular instance.

I have a lot of other things to say, but will need more time to really think before my fingers go off on their own.

OK?
I am so glad that you came to this party and aren't alone with this right now!
Trinity

Let's talk about money - if they are willing to walk away from your tution check, then I highly reccomend walking away from the school. My son acted out. It is bad to keep a child in an enviroment where he is seen as "the problem."

Also, just because a school says that they are "Montessori" doesn't mean that they follow the principles of Montessory style learning.

I believe that you have a local school system with a HG program, yes? If you can pull him to homeschool for the rest of the year, I would highly reccomended it.

Are you a bad parent? Well, how would I know? But I do know that judging your parenting based on their perceptions of how a normal 4 year old should behave is wrong. If you are actually worried about your parenting, I would suggest you read Sylvia Rimm. I am tempted to suggest that you contact a lawyer. The last thing you want is for the school's concerns about your parenting to lead to the Department of Child Services. In my opinion - they are way outside the line!

It is too bad that if you wanted to do family therapy, you would probably have difficulty finding a local 'parenting psychologist' who wouldn't pathologize normal highly gifted behavior. But perhaps your tester could reccomend someone?


As for sending him the wrong message. Well - what kind of messages is he getting now? What would you want him to do for your pretend future Grandchildren? Is it ok to say - We really aren't sure what to do - but more of this just seems to not be working?

And - amazingly - sometimes you can just ask your son what he thinks of the whole situation - what would he do in your shoes - and - sometimes - they come up with amazing insights!

Best Wishes,
Trinity

[quote=newtothis]YWe were called in today (after some particularly bad behavior) and had decided it was time to really advocate for him - last year, we tried to trust the "experts." We were dumbfounded to hear their assessment of him - it was all about behavior, none about ability - and they basically gave him 4 weeks or they'll kick him out. AND, they gave us the name of an "parenting psychologist" that we are essentially required to contact because it is obvious to them that he is "crying out to us to set limits for him." When we asked them to PLEASE try more challenging work, we basically were told that they will "follow the normal course of work for a 4 year old" and that "lessons are planned out far in advance."
-----------------------------------------
You need to read this article in a local parenting magazine. I don't know where you live, but it sounds like your son attends the same Montessori school as this woman's son!

http://parentwiseaustin.com/Archive/2007/02_February/GiftedAndTalented.php

--Celia

Yes, we had to advocate like MAD with our Montessori preschool! In fact, the staff ignored my advocating entirely, and only skipped our son ahead to more "academic" work once my husband spoke to them. Ugh...

On the bright side, they did FINALLY listen, albeit grudgingly. In a day, he breezed through a typical week's worth of work: problem solved!

In my opinion, if suggesting that they try more challenging work for him as a potential solution to his alleged discipline issues doesn't get a favorable response--and I'd try the "Look, just try it with him for a day. What have you got to lose?" approach--then get him out of there. You can give him much of what he needs at home. For the rest, find/create a good playgroup, or even join a homeschooling group with lots of gifted kids in it. There will be social outings of families with gifted kids, and many of those will have little brothers and sisters tagging along.

Worst case, hang out at the local children's museum, and visit the park on nice days or an indoor play area on the bad weather days for his socialization. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing...certainly better than a preschool that can only see him as the "bad kid." He deserves better!

Best wishes!

As I expected, you all have offered some fantastic perspective, thoughts and additional reading (we LOVED the article from the Austin parenting magazine...identical situation, though we're not at the same school). As an update, he was given a new lesson on Wednesday that he had sought for over a year - painting (actually considered a relatively complex work in Montessori because of the prep and clean-up required by the child) - and his creativity has run wild. He has regaled us repeatedly with tales of what he will paint each day, and I'm so eager to see his work bag this afternoon. And, as I would have predicted, he has had NO discipline problems. None.

We're extremely excited about testing next week - the psychologist testing him is one recommended by the gifted Charter school here, and she has lots of experience with gifted kids. I have an acquaintance whose son scored 155 with her at 4, so she clearly is comfortable with very gifted children. We figure that if he tests high, she will be able to help us with which options to choose for his schooling as well as help us pull apart what, if any, parenting or medical issues we are dealing with. If he tests lower, perhaps she can also help us with those things.

I'll look forward to having test scores next week to know if we truly belong here, and, if so (as we hope and honestly expect), I look forward to being an active part of the community here. Thanks so much for all of your help!

((sign of relief))
Yippee!
Paint to the rescue!
Trinity -


See you soon. And remember - if the scores are lower than you would expect from your research, you are still welcome to participate here. So kids are truly gifted in a narrow area - so the overall score is unimpressive - BUT they still have special educational need it that particular area. Other kids really test poorly.