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    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Jake Offline OP
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    Hey,

    I'm so glad to find a GT board that's currently active(I've seen Hoagies during its multi-month stagnations) and I'm almost too eager to get advice from kind people like yourselves.

    I'm an 18 year old male who has never formally been labeled as gifted but has psychometric test scores which put me in that category.

    I've been struggling with underachievement for roughly my entire time in high school (I'm graduating in a matter of weeks =P) and although it probably has been amplified by my bad work habits, its roots are still unknown and tortuously puzzling to me.

    I'm at a loss for where to start...my history would drag on for pages even when reduced to just relevant info, my current predicament cannot be understood without proper precedent; I guess I should be straightforward and say that right now I'm a mess.

    Historically I have been in straight honors and AP classes for my grade level(there's a GT math class that I'm not part of)
    and my grades have ranged from B's to D's on a downward trend for the last 4 years. I'll admit that in high school I have hardly ever been diligent about doing my work and my grades are in part a result of that. However, I believe myself to be a naturally motivated person since I had a rainbow of self-initiated interests as a kid. If up until this point, you've been wondering why this sob story of a lazyass teenager is in the 2E forum, your curiosity will be sated starting...now.

    When put along side classmates who are identified as "gifted" and in the ultra-magnified eye of the student body as "super geniuses", I pitifully don't measure up. That satisfyingly short learning curve gifted kids are fabled to have never comes for me. Just about every lesson in my classes leaves me drowning in questions about apparent inconsistencies in the concepts and their presentation.

    In English I rarely figure out the meaning of poetry and only grasp it partially after many agitated explanations. I've never been a bad writer, just it takes me soooo freakin long to compose an essay. I have no clue where all this time goes; I can prewrite and organize ideas just fine, hell I can visualize an entire essay in my head...I just spend almost all the allotted time in the process of writing these things out with a meaning that makes sense to me. When it comes down to it, the actual content of my writing is usually not satisfactory even for myself. I can rarely synthesize the prompt with the given materials to make a satisfactory thesis. My teacher's remarks hardly disagree that I "miss the point" of many of the passages.

    Math and Science give me great frustration especially when I'm told I have a head for them and yet I still fall flat on my face.
    Many times I'm left behind when a new concept is taught, even if it is based on prior more basic ones. I hear my math teacher beating into the class's head time after time that the beauty of math is the reliability that numbers will always behave the same, no matter what situation they are applied in. I take this to heart, say that e^lne = e, etc.

    In other words, I take math at face value and don't procure irrational ideas about math concepts when my classmates whine, "you never said it couldn't mean that!" Ultimately through some faulty reasoning, somebody in my class will discover the right answer, and I will still be stuck on step 1. I'm not gonna attempt to redefine a logical argument, but I'll say that if somebody can't explain, in a heavily logical class like math or science, how they got their answer, they shouldn't be getting it in the first place. As a result, I feel like I'm simply regurgitating everything I have to memorize in order to get mediocre grades in math/science even though I get praised for the consistency of my method and told that I am "so good" at it(and not by my mommy).

    Apparently I've had this kind of difficulty from the time I entered school and it lead to lagging achievement at one point(I had below level reading comprehension in 2nd grade). I remember having really sloppy handwriting and losing my place in the middle of a multiplication problem. This was the stuff which led up to me getting evaluated.

    Maybe this is relevant in a way I don't yet know, but I had a motor problem until I was about 7 or 8. They called it spacial orientation + executive function or something and it just meant that I got dizzy when I closed my eyes. (Who walks around with their eyes closed anyway?)

    Anyway, the tests, which did not expose my "motor problem" gave me a 135 VIQ and a 100 PIQ and said that my overall level of functioning was inconclusive(NO SHIZ).

    After all that, they had the nerve to say that I didn't seem to have a learning disability(somehow they denied the possibility of NVLD) and with an unknown classification my case manager is still unsure of, gave me special services. They didn't do much good and I resisted them (I was in a support class with retarded kids, I wasn't gonna be babied).

    Somehow through all of this, I always gave the impression that I was really smart and because I tried to socialize with the only other halfway competent person in my support class (he was 2E, a communism-obsessed nut with aspergers) I soon got slapped with that label. They tried to justify it with my motor problem and the fact that I wanted to talk with my age-appropriate classmates about Lord of the Rings, genetics, and programming, not Arthur or Beanie Babies.

    Despite all of this resentment, I was still very diplomatic. I never had the meltdowns or made the clueless social transgressions that my poor aspie friend did. I fit in perfectly fine in smalltalk conversations until it was my turn to discuss interests.

    Come middle school, I still had this unidentified problem, ineffective support, and erroneous classification that only held because I couldn't "do well in school"(I got A's and B's). I got depressed and so they fed me happy pills (risperdol and zoloft) which worked for a year but crapped out when I got to high school.

    Currently, I still carry this label of Aspergers. My motor problems have long been conquered(I play sports at the jocks' level), I have had 6 girlfriends, have been moderately popular (except when my depression resurfaces and I destroy my rep) while my aspie friend struggles to understand why people care if he smells like mineur(when he doesn't shower for 2 weeks).

    I got reevaluated again this year for college accomodations, and finally had my erroneous special education plan revoked.

    I scored 137 full scale with a 135 PIQ and a 131 VIQ (no typos) with at least half the subtests at or above a 16 (I hit ceilings on two of them). My valleys were in digit span(10) and somewhat in block assembly(13) and similarities(12). The tester described me as highly anxious and attributed a somewhat rigid approach (which surfaces without the presence of anxiety) to those aforementioned scores. I discounted the memory subscore since I have personal experience self-teaching myself 25 japanese kanji in a day(after about 2 months of study I'm almost literate). I'm guessing those kind of things are devastated by anxiety.

    Anyway, I feel like I have made some amazing and impossible recoveries(how many people have NVLD which suddenly disappears?)
    But I have still not figured out how to do well academically, even when I apply myself and do my work conscienciously. 3 psychologists and 2 learning specialists have not solved the mystery of my academic inability.

    In spite of all this, I scraped by with a 2220 on my SAT's (an incomplete essay killed my score) even though I consistently hit 2400 on practice tests given by reputable programs. My brain crapped out the same way on the SAT's as it does all too often in class.

    After this long hostile account of my dilemma, please don't think too badly of me. I apologize for seeming conceited and/or arrogant but this trouble has been driving me crazy for too long.

    What strategies do you believe can best help my problem? I'm a staunch existentialist and I'm not ready to let shrinks or teachers control my future. I am happy to provide any additional info (in a completely concise way =P)

    Thanks again for your time (reading ALL of this!)

    -Jake

    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Jake,
    I wondering if you might "blossom" in college.

    Diana

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    Hi Jake -
    I sure wish I had come with an owner's manual! But I didn't. I really enjoyed this book about 2E college kids, and maybe you would to:

    Learning Outside The Lines : Two Ivy League Students With Learning Disabilities And Adhd Give You The Tools F by Jonathan Mooney, David Cole, and Edward M. Hallowell

    I also think you and your parents, would benifit from looking through: Uniquely Gifted : Identifying and Meeting the Needs of the Twice Exceptional Student (An Avocus Advocacy in Education Title) by Kay Kiesa and Kiesa Kay

    Are you planning to go to college next year? What is your friend doing? If you could have access to the best teacher in the world in any subject matter, which subject would you pick?

    I like how you are reaching out and taking responsibility for yourself, but I would caution you against writing off "all" shrinks and teachers. I think that if you have the money to have your IQ results reviewed and supplimented by one of the best, say Deb Ruf in Minnesota or Ed Amend in Kentucky, that you might "shortcut" the long and winding road by a few years.

    I saw a video about a kid that didn't get into college, and so creates his own college. Of course as a comedy it centered around drinking and ..... I would reccomend that you write down those pages and pages about what has happened and your ideal setting would be. Perhaps you could blog it and leave us links here?

    One thing that I know is that within 5 years, life will have changed so much that almost none of us will recognise it in lots of important ways. But I can't predict what those ways will be. Please protect your health by staying away from alcohol, street drugs and women who are meaner and "crazier" than you are.
    ((wink))

    Love and More Love,
    Trinity


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    Jake-
    I've a bit of difficulty reading through longer posts; so please pardon me if you've answered this, but how is your handwriting?

    Also, I'd like to suggest you read the Eide's book, The Mislabeled Child. It sounds like your processing speed and maybe your working memory are slow relative to your high abilities. That's a common thing on those tests, in gifted kids. you've a lot of things to process and that can also be reflected in the PIQ and VIQ scores. In other words, you are probably even a bit higher in those, if not significantly.

    In the Eide's book read a bit about the working memory. I think the chapter is called, "Gone in Sixty Seconds".

    Also...hear hear to Trinity's suggestions for further evaluation. At this point, you need to know more about your strengths and needs.

    Have you checked out sengifted.org yet?


    Willa Gayle
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    Hi Jake:

    I realize you wrote this a while ago -- I read this a while ago. But now, I've just read a book by Sylvia Rimm that might give you some insight into your behaviors.
    It is called
    _why bright kids get bad grades_. It is written for parents and educators, but I think it might help you analyze some of your behaviors.

    I think it's great you are recognizing a problem exists.

    best,

    bk

    PS, I looked for Sylvia Rimm based on Trinity's suggestion. Thanks, it's really opened my eyes!

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    really bk,
    Please say more - I have such mixed feelings about her advice! I recognise it's wisdome, yet feel so worried inside at the idea of following it!
    Trin


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    I think I found the book helpful because of its profiles of different types of underachievement -- including the child or young adult with imposter syndrome, who thinks s/he couldn't really be as smart as the tests say, and panics when presented with challenging material.

    I think the other replies above provided good resources for looking at specific LD issues -- I thought it might be helpful to look at some possible emotional issues that might play into what Jake is experiencing.

    As for her solutions --- I've pulled out the ones I think might stand a chance with my child. I'm actually applying _some_ of her advice right now. I'm insisting that my child learn boring old math facts, and I'm just having him sit down at a desk or table and figuring out how to memorize them on his own. Previously, I would hover over every bit of homework and wonder why he couldn't seem to get the work done on his own. I realized I need to sit back and let him develop study skills on his own and develop confidence in his ability.

    Also, I realized that her advice not to respond to "dependent" (in her terminology) kids with negative reinforcement was probably right on track, looking back and realizing that those negative reinforcements never seem to work with my son. Reading the book helped me to identify the "dependent" behavior and the ways I was reinforcing it.

    I've also been trying to emphasize the importance of effort, not just intelligence. I'll let you know how it goes!

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    I love it when Rimm says: "Winning builds Confidence;Losing build Character!" We use that around the house all the time now.
    I want a tee-shirt with that on it!


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