Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional New and Curious

Nice to see this site up. I read the article in TIME about the Davidson Institute and ended up here.

I was in a gifted program for two years until my parents pulled me out because they didn't like the way it was handled. After that I pretty much denied my own abilities through adulthood until my daughter was born and started writing and reading simple words at age three.

My girl is a very intense child and had a few problems even in pre-school so I stayed late every morning to see how things were going. It was worth it because she convinced the teacher to let her read "Click, Clack Moo" to the rest of the class early one morning after I had just dropped her off. The expression on the teacher's face as she read was priceless.

She's now in Kindergarten and a note home after just one week read something to the effect that she is bright, enthusiatic, creative but won't follow the rules and is disrespectful to the teacher. My daughter read the note to me even though it was written in cursive.

I am dreading the rest of her education. I keep seeing my miserable high school experience flash before my eyes and I try to tell myself that she's different, stronger and smarter than I was and I'm more informed than my parents were, plus we have the internet to rely on, but I'm waiting for some educator to label her ADHD or Aspergers or what have you because she doesn't fit into the system.

I'm curious what your opinions are regarding whether these dual diagnosis are a direct result of gifted kids being misplaced in normal classrooms, how homeschooling can benefit our dear ones with gifted "disorder" and if anyone out there ever dreams of a virtual school for the gifted so that any kid anywhere can log on and get the challenging education they need, plus have a network of friends out there who are truly their intellectual peers.

I'm also curious as to how many of you have read "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults: ADHD, bipolar, OCD, Asperger's, depression, and other disorders" It was a great resource for me in coming to terms with my own experiences.

Anyway, glad to see the site up.

LOL Lara! Welcome!
yes, you see we've almost all read Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis because so many of our children act out in confusing was when unaccomidated! My son amoung them - Read the "crash and burn" thread if you want a good scare. Then read the reccomended resources for the Ruf checklists, and the what kind of schools are needed for another good scare. Basically you know the high price of unaccomidation, and it sounds like your DD may have the "taint" worse than you did.

Homeschooling is a wonderful althernative, and there are many curriculums that can be modified to give your daughter the advanced work she needs. "K-12" in particular has a gifted package that some families I know use as a backbone. Once the high school years come (around age 9, sometimes) you can use EPGY's online high school for gifted kids.

Alternativly, you can go the gradeskip routine. It's not to late to put into effect even now. I would put a request in writing to ask the school to evaluate her for a grade skip ASAP. You can point to the note and explain that she has certain learning needs that must be met so that she can relax enough to work on her social maturity.

Another avenue to consider is getting IQ and achievement testing privatly, but don't just go to your local child psychologist. You will want to travel if nescessary to get your child to someone who is used to testing Highly and Profoundly gifted children. Once you have test scores, I do reccomend applying to YSP if your daughter qualifes.

My guess is that if you've already found and read MisDiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis, that your daughter's intensity is "public" enough that you've already gotten lots of "looks." If so, sorry.

Good luck, and Welcome!
Trinity

Lara-

I am a huge fan of the Misdiagnosis book. There are many "normal" gifted kids out there getting labels stuck on them by unqualified school personnel, who need some frame of reference to try to understand our kids. On the other hand, my son who has Asperger's had all the underlying symptoms identified in kindy, (motor skill delays, social problems, etc.) but his high IQ allowed him to compensate enough so that teachers said he "couldn't" have AS. He was finally evaluated by a qualified neuropsychologist at age 13, after I begged my family practitioner for a referral because I knew something wasn't right. It is extremely helpful to get a label when one is warranted, as it allows the adults in the child's life to better understand the child and arrange appropriate accommodation and instruction.

What sort of issues do you have with your toddlers? I have a 3yo son who at 14 to 16 mos learned the alphabet, colors and shapes. Although he doesn't like to read books anymore and does not like being read to, he still managed to teach himself how to read and write at 2 1/2. He can now count in 4 languages, do a little addition and subtraction, knows his phone number and address and is quite proficient with the computer, often having 2 or 3 windows working at the same time. He can read, spell, write and type his first and last name.
However, after 10 minutes in a very unfriendly environment with a psychologist, he was diagnosed as very high functioning autistic because he doesn't like to play with children his age and can throw a tantrum when he gets frustrated or feels "helpless". It seemed odd to me when I was told that he will never be a "people person" because he is very friendly but only to older children and adults. He would often introduce himself and his family to the parents and older siblings in parties or in the playground.
After reading Misdiagnosis, I learned that these are issues common among gifted children, where their atypical behaviors significantly changes when the situations change like they behave differently in school with peers compared to at home or with adults or other gifted children. I find it very sad that there are very few professionals who can help our children. While these behaviors still need to be corrected, I think dealing with them should be completely different from the behaviors of children with typical disorder.

Jon's Mom-

Are you asking how twice exceptional kids present differently as toddlers? I just want to be sure I'm answering the correct question.

My child who has mild to moderate AS (depending upon the day and circumstances) was also a self taught young reader, was very affectionate with the adults in his life, and seemed a happy go lucky kid. Technically, I am his stepmother, and not his birth mother, but I met him shortly after he turned four, and his Dad (who I married when J was six) took full custody when J turned five. So I really can't say a lot about what he was like at three, other than the general information I shared above.

It wasn't until he was turning five that we realized how different J was. He had low muscle tone and could hardly hold a pencil. He tired easily and wanted to be carried after walking a short distance. He still wavered about which hand was dominant for writing. He hated swings and refused to climb structures at the playground. He preferred to sit in the sandbox and dig.

Although it took us longer to notice that J wasn't fitting in socially, by the time he was in first grade it was apparent that he had difficulties. He talked to us at home about his friends at school, but when we invited the kids he said were his buddies to his birthday party, none even bothered responding. He tended to talk at people instead of with them. He would go on and on about a game, book, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and not even realize that the other person wasn't interested. He actually would follow someone around if they walked away from him- completely clueless to body language. He was inflexible in his play and tried to get us (or his cousin, neighbor, etc.) to repeat lines that he scripted. He'd get angry if he lost a board game and didn't seem to get the idea of give and take. He loved Nintendo's Mario games and frequently used lines from these and other games in his everyday interactions, unaware that most people had no idea what he was saying.

He despised the idea of having a bath, but once he was in the tub, he hated to get out. This was pretty much true of any change- if he was outside he didn't want to go in, if he was indoors he wanted to stay there. Change of any kind was very difficult for him. It still is, and he's 18!

I'm not sure if this is at all useful to you. Based on your description, your son is probably PG. I really can't make a call as to whether he has another exceptionality as well. I'd suggest that three is too young to make an accurate call anyway, unless he has a really glaring issue. You might do well to just be aware of how he interacts and not just whether he does. Does he talk in monologues, or does he wait, and listen to the other person's response? How is his eye contact?

take care-

When my son's developmental pediatrician first read his history before actually meeting him she thought he had Asperger's. In addition to the usual questions I had to answer on our first visit, I had attached copies of my message board posts from when my son was three to five years old and I had mentioned the reading at 2 1/2, talking like a little professor, ability to memorize several hundred words of script more quickly than some teenagers in his acting class when he was just 4 1/2. I think the fact that he has hypotonia (the reason we were seeing her) made it seem likely that he had Aspergers. When she talked to him she said that he absolutely did not have it. He is a very social child, easily makes jokes to fit whatever situation he is in at the moment, and has no trouble looking people in the eye. People often tell me that he talks like an adult, especially when he joins in adult conversations about things that are happening in the news and he seems to know more about it than any of the adults.

The developmental pediatrician told us that some people might think he has ADHD because he is very high energy and has trouble sitting still for long periods of time, but he does not have ADHD.

He is not bipolar, but he says he thinks I might be. He likes to read his sister's psychology textbook and has diagnosed me with all kinds of mental disorders, which is why I almost hid this book from him.

OCD runs in my family. My son is very particular about certain things. His sister, who probably has OCD, thinks he has it, and I told the developmental pediatrician about some things that I thought might indicate OCD but she didn't diagnose him with that either.

My son gets very cranky if he goes more than two and a half hours without eating. I have to carry food with me and make sure he has a snack if we are out somewhere.

He seems not only hyperactive, but also hypersensitive. He has some sensory integration issues. He is sensitive to smells, he hears things that I don't notice. For instance, yesterday he stepped on a dead cricket at a fast food restaurant and the sound creeped him out so much that it took him several minutes to get over it. He is sensitive to so many things. Swimming lessons are difficult because he can't stand water splashed in his face and he can't relax enough to float. He also has anxiety issues, but that's not unusual in my family.

My son still does not have any kind of diagnosis. We were only told that he has sensory issues, hypotonia, and he is gifted, but we don't know how highly because we can't afford testing. The doctor didn't recommend therapy, other than vision therapy for visual motor integration problems at the 1% level, maybe because our insurance doesn't pay for it. She just told me that I needed to get the Out of Sync Child Has Fun and do some of these activities with him and he wouldn't do them.

My outside-the-box son went to Kindergarten but wouldn't color in the lines, his handwriting was sloppy but could write with both hands, he watched the other kids play on the playground or talked to the teachers instead of playing, and he said school wasn't very educational. I asked a first grade teacher for advice and she recommended homeschooling because she thought he was highly gifted and would not get an appropriate education in our small town school. I have been homeschooling ever since and spending too much time online trying to find answers that I couldn't even get from doctors.

The mother of one of my son's best friends, also gifted but four years older, is a special ed teacher. She thought my son might benefit from "listening therapy" for his sensory issues but insurance won't pay for it, we can't afford it, and we would have to enroll my son in an inappropriate educational situation in order to get it through the school. She arranged for me to talk to a teacher at the school whose son also has sensory issues and visual motor integration problems and thought therapy was helping her son, but her son had problems reading and my son learned how to read on his own at 2 1/2, and I am not sure what listening therapy would do for my son and I can't afford it anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

I don't know if some of my son's issues are just overexcitabilities (he appears to have all five) or if he needs therapy. I spend way too much time online trying to find answers. My son once said "Why can't you just accept me the way I am?" I think he sees my search for answers as a sign that I don't accept him the way he is. He has called himself an anomaly or "un-normally" as he likes to call it and even a freak and a geek but he says he is happy the way he is and we shouldn't worry what other people think.

But I think my special ed teacher friend and some other people I know would like to know what to call my son's differences. A lot of people seem to like labels and he doesn't have one. I have spent years looking at info on various syndromes and nothing fit perfectly and it makes it hard to plan for the future. Not only do I sometimes have difficulty figuring out what to do now for his education but also planning for the future. I think online classes might work for him. He took a free online class on the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe a while back and he liked it, but we are only using cosmeo.com now because he is interested in so many different things and it is only about $10.00 a month.