Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy grade acceleration

Should we accelerate Mite up a grade? We have found, as we have worked with him this summer, he is way more capable than 3rd grade, though there are some gaps.

With his dyspraxia affecting his oral reading and his writing, is it better to let him stay in the third grade gifted cluster or is it better to move him up a grade and hope that motivates him and increases his self-esteem?

We still don't know what the school district plans to do with him. We only know he will get an IEP and they will be providing scribes, oral word processing and the like. The initial IEP meeting isn't until a few days before school.

with your history of your older son, i'd think you'd want to? what do you feel, in your heart of hearts?

i say, better to struggle sooner than later

shrugg
trinity

I think we should. Of course, since the school district only recognizes the full scale score for gifted...well, I don't know if they will do it.

homeschool is not an option right now. private school will be next year, but the closest one is nearly 30 minutes drive. Plus I've got to find a job to pay for it.

This is making me nuts. It feels like all I do night and day is study 2E, dyspraxia and giftedness.

Then we found out, today, the district is cutting the advanced placement courses for the high school. I think they waited for the last minute so those of us who would take our kids to another district wouldn't have a chance...deadlines passed. So, our older boy won't have any honors courses this year.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHH!! Primal scream and such!

Oh! sorry about the AP classes. Ouch! I hate to ask, but is it really too late to switch? I mean I'm sure some families are moving in and out of your area as we speak.

I think it's great that you've worked with Mite and seen more than you expected. Well done.
smiles-
Trin

We did a grade skip with our son and it worked well. The psych recommended another one this year and we passed on it because we think his needs can be met this year in third grade with a great teacher.

By that, I guess I am saying I wouldn't automatically choose one or the other. Perhaps the right answer is next year or this year or neither.

Is it possible that therapy this year for the dyspraxia would make a jump next year easier? Is it possible that the boredom this year will damage him enough that you really don't have a choice?

Sorry - nothing but questions, but you started it.

Like you said though - the school may not allow it anyway. Most are very much against skipping even for gifted kids. - especially twice exceptional kids.

Mary

That's what I'm asking too. I'm not sure if we should wait the year to let him get used to the interventions or if getting the ego and stimulation boost of the acceleration will help him deal emotionall with the interventions.

Actually talked to the principal tonight and have a HUGE sigh of relief. I really like the guy. Anyhow HE recognizes Mite as very intelligent from the test scores and agrees that must be addressed in the IEP. He was surprised by the acceleration suggestion by the state gifted director, but just hadn't thought about it and was not opposed to it up front. I do want his ideas about it and will allow him time to process if. He knows Mite pretty well...better than anyone on the team at this point.

He also told me he included Mite in the gifted cluster for the current grade; so, that is a boost even if we decide against acceleration.

Basically, he implied that the district won't fight us much on issues. (we had to fight hard for the eval., but now that he's there apparently they plan to accomodate).

So....THERE IS HOPE!!! hopefully8^)

I'm still at to accelerate or not to accelerate that is the question!!! But, at least I know the district will consider it and not just outright reject. So, if we decide to wait til next year I feel that might be ok, too.

Oh and he told me to share the info I collected this summer re: twice exceptional and asynchronous development with all the members on the team. He said they would be open to it!!

YIPPEE!!! HOPE!! hopefully8^)

still processing and deciding......

Wow - you've gotten some great news. Remember there's nothing wrong with accelerating mid year - I've heard that after Winter break the classes do a lot of review. Do you have Re-forming gifted education by Rogers? It's the best for specific suggestions on how to support a grade skip. Are their ways that you can get Mite socially introduced to the 4th grade gifted cluster kids in the fall,playdates, etc?

Will find it now and read it. I hope its at the local stores. I hate waiting for Amazon packages:^)

Today (which means by this evening this opinion may change) I'm thinking to allow him to stay in the 3rd grade gifted cluster. DH14 had that teacher and she was a godsend for him. Then I'm thinking to ask that he be accelerated to 5th grade reading. Then we want to homeschool math (he's lickety-splitting through the Horizon 3rd grade we bought this summer and we are getting www.diveintomath.com Saxon math 5/4 next. i think that will be a good combo. That way math time at school can be used for handwriting, OT, PT, keyboarding and reading tutoring.

Whatcha think? Quick before I change my mind!!! LOL

Yup. I did change my mind:^) 4th instead of 5th grade reading is the plan du moment. I'm thinking it will be an ego boost, and less work for momma while I figure other things out for him.

Again subject to change8^)

The only thing that is scaring me about the skipping is the twice exceptionality. He's going to have a struggle learning how to interact with a para scribe, learning to use an oral word processor and learning to use the organizational software programs they are going to use.

Actually, one of those programs is Kidspiration. I bought it 3 weeks ago; installed it and sat down with him to help him learn the program. It really seems designed to help a kid lay out one heading (this is a mind map program), then about 2-3 subheadings and maybe a couple lower. Mite spewed out 57 different subheadings and had a 7 layer mind map in the 1.5 hours we worked on it. Totally shocked me. The software didn't handle it well.

I sometimes think, go for the full grade skip except for math. I'm really strongly leaning towards homeschooling math. It goes really well with Mite and DH and they really seem to be bonding over it AND Mite is totally thrilled that he can go faster and at his own pace.

Oh and there is nothing meak about my advocating style. I'm actually an educator myself (early childhood special at that....hmmmmm think they would have listened to me when I said something was WRONG). So, I know I need to keep communications open, but be strong in my advocacy. Sometimes it makes me nuts...all the fragile eggshell egos I have to tiptoe around. But, so far, rapport is good. They don't know they are making me nuts:^)

Mite is a January birth. So, he's middle of the road.

ok. true confession time again.

I was skipped a grade and then put back. 6th to 7th. I never lived it down. The kids tormented me over it. My parents, siblings and aunt and uncles teased me too.

That just dawned on me. Interesting how I was keeping that in the back of my head. It was a very traumatic experience. Of course, I had NO support at home nor at school. It was a "sink or swim" situation. So, of course, I sank.

I think that's what is niggling at me about Mite's acceleration. One thing I do know ****I**** won't let him fail no matter which way we go. While he has the handwriting disabilities and some inattentiveness when he is bored, he definitely doesn't have the ADHD issues I had.

I want Mite to enjoy school and other kids and himself.

Mite literally told me at the beginning of the summer that he thinks he should skip to 6th grade! He brought it up by himself. When I asked what he thought sixth grade had to offer him, he said the topics the sixth graders he knew were so much more interesting to him and he liked the books they were reading....Harry Potter, Eragon and Eldest, C.S. Lewis' books..etc.

It was a spontaneous conversation. I hadn't thought about acceleration yet and when the state director of gifted ed suggested it I mentioned Mite's ponderings on the topic. She laughed and said she wouldn't be surprised he really could handle it.

We haven't discussed it with Mite though, since then. So, I think that's a good idea. We'll see what he has to say.

I'll let you know. He's at camp right now. It's his first overnight camp and I'm going through Mite withdrawal:^) I think the separation is hard on me due to all the things we've discovered about him these last 8 weeks. I don't want to miss anymore of who he is and I"m worried how the dyspraxia will be handled by the camp counselors.....

ok I'm rambling now...

Ummmm. Given the Mite conversation, you maaaay want to persue skipping to 6th. sometimes grade skips fail 'cause they aren't radicle enough. there isn't anything "ego" building about doing work that's too easy for you, even if it has a higher grade level tag on it - to build a child's ego, they HAVE to suceed at work that looks beyond their ability to THEM.

srry to stir the pot
Trinity

argh!

If we homeschool (which I think we probably eventually will) then a big skip like that is possible. Maybe the 5th grade gifted reading cluster will be a big enough leap. I think it is reading at the 6th grade level, too.

I know he has gaps in math that would make 6th math grade a leap that would torment me.

I'll probe a bit more when he gets back from camp.

6th grade here is junior high. that kinda bugs me as little as he is. He's quite short and plump 8^)

Willa Gayle
It sure sounds to me like Mite is looking for peers, and yeah, the 5th grade gifted cluster will probably do for him what 6th grade regular would.

How many weeks till school starts? Does his gaps in 6th grade math have to torment you - or can you pay or the school provide someone to midwife that jump. LOL people don't get why a parent would want a kid skipped to the point where they'd need tutoring - but it's all about the social fit, really - we're educating the whole child - and remember - the bigger the gap the more flexible and supportive the other kids tend to be. It's easier to be philosophical about the "tiny freak" while the kid from one grade down who's tall and broad also can be seen as another competitor. Honestly I'm only bringing it up after hearing Mite's comments - he knows where he "feel" comfortable - what might meet his social needs.
Trinity

Deliberately describing a skip as an experiment that he can call off if he finds it isn't working may help prevent the possibility of the stigma you experienced if the situation is not a good fit. We did this when our son skipped from 6th to 7th in the middle of the school year. The kids our son left behind in the 6th grade might have harrassed him if he had returned to 6th after a hiatus, but it seemed worth the risk. Some were already harrassing him, and it seemed good to get some space from those. The older kids weren't as threatened.

bluestem

Hello, I would like to join in the discussion, having just joing the Davidson Institute.

My son skipped third grade and went into 4th at about thanksgiving time. He is in a school system that does not ability group or cluster gifted kids. For him, it worked out really well - although his closest friends are still the ones that are his age (one is another gifted child who just skipped from 4th into 5th last year and will join him in 6th next year).

We are however facing an issue for next year with his math course. He has been doing the Johns Hopkins on-line courses instead of regular math instruction in school since 1st grade. (he was at frist grade about 2 or 3 grade levels ahead in math - but has slowed down because of some of the changes that occured during the year he skipped a grade) He is going into a private middle school (6-8) that empasizes inquiry based learnng and problem solving. He is ready however to take 7th grade math. I am not sure if we should leave him in the 6th grade classroom because the approach will be different and other changes (such as homework levels, appraoch, assignments) could be overwhelming, or ask the school to skip him up for math. The situation is complicated because he has an older brother who is in 7th grade, the school is small (2 classes per grade level) such a skip could wreak havoc with the scheduling, and the school district has just implemented an IB program which does not allow kids to skip ahead in particular subject areas once they are at the high school level. He is also reading at a much higher grade level, but some of his other skills (although high for the grade he is in) do not exceed the grade level that he will be entering.

Any advice would be appreciated! thanks. LG

Willa,
Since you have mentioned the gifted program at your school is pretty much non-existent and that they are going to TRY and accommodate your son I would not see a grade skip as such a bad choice at this point. A lot of people say it is so much easier in the earlier years of school although from the things you have shared about your Mite I don't know that it would pose too much of a challenge even later in life. I do understand the concerns you have with some of his weaknesses but if he is already aspiring for work as challenging as 6th grade work and doesn't feel intimidated by those peers he would encounter then I certainly think he would handle himself well skipping just one grade for now. There is always the standard IEP for helping with his weaknesses and he can obviously handle himself with his strengths and you're obviously doing your part as the parent to see that his hunger for knowledge in his interest areas is quenched as much as you can. I really think if you have good communication with the school and their cooperation with things it will really work out well for him in the end. Of course I'm no expert but my son told me what he wanted to do last year (completing 2 grades in one school year) and I thought he was NUTS but I did what I could to help him reach his goal and by george he did it with ease! These kids know more then we do what they need, believe it or not. I was just telling someone the other day that it's such a shame how little information (like books) there is out there for parents of kids like ours yet you can go find 200 books on potty training and my goodness another 500 books on baby names! Who needs that many books on baby names? Yet we get such slim pickings for some of the brightest minds we'll ever encounter in our lives...that SOCIETY will ever encounter. So I was saying in that conversation these great gifted minds need to start writing books and just telling us what they need or what they needed as they grew up, what would have helped, what would help others, what makes a difference or may make the difference in the life of the next great mind.....what a priceless read THAT would be! Of course the ped. reminds me that they are all so different in their own ways and they all need different things....well then have a few of them write books! I'll read as many books as I need! Anyway, now I'm off on a tangent. Best of luck in this decision for your Mite. You sound like such a wonderful mom and I'm sure you'll make the best decision for him.

M.

LG,

Is the regular public school your only option? Have you considered or looked into a charter school? What about a cyber school (or better yet CYBER CHARTER!)? Is homeschooling an option? I say when the traditional school setting is no longer accommodating to our children it's time to remove them from that setting and take charge of their educational needs or start making some noise to someone who will listen....like political figures etc. I'm a bit of a noise maker though. :p

M.

M - the only options are public school (which, for a lot of reasons will not work at the MS level) and the small private school that he is enrolled in and is excited about. The only options for high school (short of a boarding school) are public, suplemented with some courses at the local community college. Home schooling is not an option because he does not like to "change courses" or move on to new things when fully engaged and working at home...but will do so in a traditional classroom setting with ease. Homeschooling would simply become a battlefield. So we are stuck with "working within the system"... LG

Hi LG, welcome

It sounds like your are willing to let him try out 6th grade math and get his feet wet first. What's his opinion? can you get copies of the books for him to look through? did the school evaluate him? if so, what did they think?

My gut feeling is to take it slow for now, and see what happenes. You son is excited for this change, so that buys you some time to evaluate. Since he's already one year accelerated, and Math seems to repeat over and over anyway - at least this may be a different approach. I tend to think that a good private school "should" be about a year ahead of public school anyway.

Good luck either way -
Trinity

Wel, Mite came home from camp yesterday. I broached the subject of acceleration this morning with him. He is still strongly wanting 6th grade.

I don't think the schools will let us do that AND I am not keen on him going off to junior high for various reasons. First, we live in a primarily majority community where racism is pretty prevalent in the middle and senior high. My DS14 had issues in middle school and we now shudder as we send him of to high school where it is rampant. My children, if I haven't mentioned it before, are minorities. I call them "specks of brown in the sea of white" in their classrooms and schools. So, I really worry for Mite's safety at the junior high, which is where he'd do 6th grade.

Also, there are some pretty nasty kids in the neighborhood in 6th grade and that's who he'd be with. So, if we consider that kind of leap it will only be in another district and that just isn't feasible yet.

Homeschool is not an option for us right now, at least not for the full-time.

I really think we are going to ask for a single level skip in everything but mathematics. In mathematics we will homeschool using Saxon 5/4 diveintomath program. He can go just as fast as he wants in math that way.

We are looking into private school options, but most in are area are wait-listed. So, we'll see.

sigh. why do people think raising a gifted kid is such a breeze? I can't imagine being jealous of what we all have to go through for our kids.

Hi Willa Gayle - ((hugs))

Does your son know these neighborhood 6th graders? How does he feel about them? Are there honors classes or gifted clusters in 6th grade? I hate to be such a nudge, but I'm in the middle of convincing myself that kids have some "inner intuition" about what they need. Of course they need us to take an independent perspective (see tummy time thread) buuuuuut (I know that you know this)

I can't speak to the racial issue, but here's my question - is your kid better off facing it later when he's older but more "bad fit" academically and interpersonally (he recognises that they have similar interests), or facing it right now with his own initiative and better fit academically. This assumes that he's going to have to face it either way. (I missed the part about is it you or his dad who is the "non-dominant" heritage person - if it's his dad, I missed the part about is his dad in his life, and what's his perspective on this? What does your older son think?)

Here's a little story about my life - I spent 4th and 5th grade "shunned." It was awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone....except, when I grew up I became close friends with a lady who had never been unpopular in school, I mean never. We had infants at the same time, and would go on long gabby walks with the kids in strollers, I learned about her life. I never realized how much work, effort and self monitoring goes into never offending anyone "important" (no matter how offensive that person's demands might be.) I think she took more damage watching people like me get shunned that I did! Honestly. She still couldn't talk to people who were offending her about what her true feelings were. She told me about friendship after friendship that fell by the wayside when she finally got fed up. Did our friendship end in a similar way? Of course. Yet for all that, this person had many, many wonderful quailties. I will always be grateful to have known her, in general, and in particular due to the insiders view of the "popular" kid.

Does this little story translate to your situation? I don't know. I'm not saying it does - since I don't know what the local situation is for people of color. I just felt the urge to tell it (in front of the whole world ((red face)) no less) because maybe it will help you, Willa Gayle.

We're only in charge of doing the best we can at the time. The outcomes and ramifications are much bigger than any of us.

Love and More Love
Trinity

Dear LG,
My oldest two sons are in middle school (6th and 8th grades) and close in abilities. I let my oldest son try things first (guinea pig) and then try it on the next. For math, I've signed up for EPGY distance course for the oldest. He can try it for 3 months and then I can sign up the younger son. My oldest son has no one in his class to motivate him to learn as rapidly as he can, and he actually asked for this course, saying the last two years of math have been a waste (Moms just love hearing that, don't we? Especially when we think we're so intuned with all their educational needs, but they have failed to mention they've been coasting). I thought my younger son needed a little adjust time (new school, new curriculum) before adding a distance course, but in my mind they could inspire each other when he does start EPGY.
If my older son likes this distance learning thing, I think I'll incorporate it into his IEP so that he doesn't have to "waste" more time sitting through class, but can work online at that time (instead of doing extra at home).

Sibling rivalry is very tough though, and I think it's destructive to their relationship. I haven't figured out how to handle it with 2 of my other sons, except to keep them separate. They might be working on the same level math, but as long as the older one is always a few objectives ahead, it's been ok. The younger one who can work faster, deliberately does not because he doesn't want to catch up to his brother. I suggested he might want to skip more grades, but he immediately declined, saying, "I need to always be 2 grades behind [brother]," giving me a knowing look. Pretty astute for a 7 yr old.

"Pretty astute for a 7 yr old."

I'll say!
Trinity

Okay I need to know where did you place Mite? How is he doing?

Ok Gyus, now I need some help....
My DS11, gave us quite a headache last night.
He goes to charter school that accelerates in subjects and does ability grouping for math and language within a grade. So, my DS takes highest level grade 6 math, higest level language arts class (teacher opted out a textbook, instead they do novels and tons, tons of writing) and geometry (the school devoted two periods to math). But because he is the only sixth grader taking geometry, there are some scheduling conflicts. The school was really great trying to accomodate my DS, so last year, at the end of the fifth grade they gave him an end of level 6 th grade science test, which basically showed that he knows almost everything out of the 6th grade science core. So this year, while his "higher ability" class takes science, my DS has geometry and takes science with another class "not as bright", to quote his teacher. And here again they try to accomodate him, he does have an unlimited access to the computer on which he is to do research for his science projects coordinated by the teacher. But... there are lots of buts...everything is really complicated. Because he is doing science this way, sometimes he misses computer, which he really enjoys (they do coool things, like animated movies, ads etc...), so the teacher sends him to the computer lab. When this happens, he misses science for the day. Basically he never knows for sure what his schedule for the day is going to be. On top of that, he almost failed the last science quiz, becasue the teacher assumed that he is so brilliant he probably knows everything and she did not even gave him the script to study from, or maybe did not stress enough the importance of studying from it, I don't know ....
Another but.... he brings home copious amounts of homework, and yesterday on the way back from school I questioned his friend and it turns out that in his case homework is not such a big deal.
Yet another but....my DS is totally not motivated. If given a choice he would play on the computer all day long and stress about homework the last thing of the day.
My theory on what is happening goes like that: he plainly has too much freedom at school which he can't handle. Instead of concentrating on the work that needs to be done, because the teacher is going to check on it, he is just playing genius and spends time downloading music for his power point presentations . He is very smart but not very mature, he enjoys the company of younger kids (they do not question his strange play ideas????) and as I have mentioned he is absolutely not self motivated. Please tell me that this comes with age....
We have a conference with his teacher coming up in a couple of weeks and I am going to do something about his science curriculum. I will probably request a book for him, or maybe all the scripts that she teaches from, and make sure that he gets tested from each chapter. I do not want to remove the privilige of computer use, but what can I do to make my son control himslef a little better? I can't expect the teacher to control him all the time, she has another 24 students to take care of.
My dilema about my DS has to do with grade skipping. His math teacher asked us last year if we would consider it (much easier for the school to accomodate him that way)and we said no, based on his immaturity, his tendency to play with younger kids. I also believe that by skipping grades a certain advantage will be taken away from him - I am talking about competitions here.
I love his 6th grade teacher, she is so smart and so devoted to all the kids. 7/8 grade team does not look very bright to me, especially the english teachers. I was thinkig about maybe skipping 7 grade, but then again we are looking
into an IBprogram for High School, and they do not allow any acceleration. But if we skip 7th grade, then he will be a freshman ready to take pre-calculus, if we won't skip, he should be taking calculus his first year of HS, and nobody in an IB program will let him do that!
What to do? Why does it get even more complex the older they become? Would love to here from someone who has experience with middle/high school kids.And what to do about this total lack of self motivation?
Ania

The total lack of self motivation is a pretty normal reaction, I think. Especially at that age.

My son is only 7 - so I can't give you definitive answers, but we opted this year to be a completely normal third grader - just with a little extra enrichment (some computerized at school and some at home and personalized). The weird schedule last year (missing some of PE in order to do 4th grade math etc) was too hard on him. The stress was ridiculous.

We questioned the grade skip because of his maturity, but have found that a single year didn't make much difference - but maybe that is related to his age.

Oh well... no magic answers. Have you read Genius Denied? How to help your gifte child soar? Maybe some of them would be helpful

Mary

Ania, I can relate to so much of what you write about your son. The lack of self-motivation sure is frustrating.

My son is younger than yours (will be 8 next month) and exhibits many of the same traits. He would definitely play on the computer all day long if he could (but isn't that true of many adults, too!). He is impatient about doing homework, about practicing/studying for anything, or doing anything he views as unnecessary busywork. For example, he hates having to write an answer in a complete sentence instead of a short phrase. He wants to rush through schoolwork and get it over with, which means he makes careless mistakes. He often misses points because he doesn't read the complete directions. And yet, he cares very much about getting good grades and being viewed as smart. He is upset if he doesn't get good grades.

My son tends to get along well with either much older kids (if they will deign to play with him) or younger kids, because then he can be the leader. I also liked what you said about your son in this regard--that perhaps the younger kids don't question his strange play ideas.

I think your theory (too much freedom at school) is good. Is his computer time pretty much a free-for-all where he can do whatever he wants? Maybe you could work with the teacher to find ways to narrow the scope of what he can do with that time--create specific assignments he has to do on the computer.

Hi Ania,
My heart goes out to you.
here's a question - What, exactly does your son do on the computer? Is it meeting social needs, such as Runescape or World of Warcraft - or intellectual needs? Computer life is as varied as IRL, but much faster and easier - so I'm wondering what he's getting "out there."

I also think it's weird that he has to take science tests when he already placed out of science. Can he take a CC science class in the evening to entirely replace science - easing up the "chicken dance" a bit?

My DS10 also rushes through homework, particularly if the challenge level is too easy. I call it the "close your eyes and think of England" approach.(Not within his hearing - LOL!) Last week when he finally got math at an appropriate challenge level, I happend to be around, and it was a completely different experience - a steady pace, huffing and puffing, and satisfaction on arrival.

What does he say about the "whole thing?"

Just so you know - DS10 looses computer privaleges from time to time, 3 days or a full week, if he acts too demanding, or doesn't do his responsibilities. good details in Ending The Homework Hassle Paperback by John Rosemond.

Also - if you are part of the YSP, try the parents of teen email list or the Parent's Forum.

Best Wishes,
Trinty

Hi,
I just wanted to add to the issue of computer usage privileges. We have a house rule that the kids are not allowed to play Game-cube, Play station or entertainment-only computer games except on Fri, Sat, and Sun. This is a non-negotiable rule just like the requirement to wear a seatbelt. I think it has served them well in pursuing academic achievement.

Wow! Delbows that's our rule, too! My chiropractor literally gasped the other day when I told him that. He had been telling me he couldn't get his son to do his homework and he told his son that "if you worked as hard on homework as you do on the Nintendo 360, you'd be a straight A student".

I also pointed out that my DS15 IS a straight A student.

We don't allow any electronic games from Sept. to May end unless there is a long weekend or break. Then they can have it out.

I'm glad to know there are other mean moms out there!!!

We are also mean. In our house there are no computer games on weekdays, and on weekends only if they have completed their homework. And yes, my DS11 is crazy about Runescape. We do not even own Game Cube or Playstation. It's just computer, but trust me, even on weekends it can get crazy.
As far as CC classes, or even University (we live five minutes from one), I honestly do not know how to find time? I am a stay at home mom 80% of the time, so after school time is totally devoted to my kids (and later in the evening my husband :-),but time is such a precious gem. Our kids play violin and piano, so we are talking here about daily practice, cross country right after school 2 X weekly , time for family dinner, homework, some reading just for pleasure - and the day is gone. Plus, my son never asks me for more "academic" activities after school. That's were my frustration is...he just does not realize how "brainy" he is, does not realize that he has to nurture that brain of his becasue otherwise it will just go to waste.
Last year during the talent search he scored highest in the region in math and he scored highest in our state in LA, despite the fact that we do not use english at home, not at all! (we take advantage of the fact that both my husband and I are fluent in another language, so we decided to use that language exclusively at home - it's easy for all of us, we just switch into english when we leave the house).
My husband says occasionally that I should let our DS be just a normal kid and not worry so much about him. But he is not normal, he does not behave normal, and if left to himself, I truly believe that, his talents would just go to waste. I strongly believe that I should advocate for him, maybe one day he will be on the team that discovers a cure for cancer! I just wish it wasn't so frustrating....
Ania

I just met a IRL mom, who early enteranced her kid, and was curious about our "frank" gradeskip. She said her mother told her "you don't want your kids to be Geniuses - it's too difficult!" I said -
a) Geniuses are people who achieve something, we are talking about children here!
and
b) It's not a question of what kind of child you wanted - it's a question of what kind of child you got!

She laughed.

I find that the first 5 things that come out of a person's mouth after the subject of giftedness comes up are best forgotten. Usually then are half formed things that someone else believed. Once the other person's brain starts thinking for themselves, adults are usually very thoughful and supportive.

I know it seems like you don't have any time, but - really - what are the priorities? How bad are things? How desperate are you?

the point isn't to win giftogenic parent points - the point is to observe, self-educate, and put a provisional plan into action.

((I made up the word giftogenic parent - to refer to us, the parents of gifted kids, who ourselves may or may not be gifted.))

I strongly believe that you should advocate for your child out of fairness. Every kid deserves to be well thought about. Whatever his future accomplishments, he deserves a reasonable shot at an appropriate education now.

Love and More Silliness,
Trinity

I think that is the thing that hurts me most when I interact with educators. I am truly just advocating to help my son who is SUFFERING due to educational neglect and misunderstanding. I really did not wish giftedness on him. I always had a feeling I would have very gifted kids because I am such a person and so is DH, 3 out of our 4 siblings, 4 out of 4 parents...etc. But, I know childhood as a gifted kid isn't easy. I want it to be easier for Mite and DS15 (who needs a nickname:^)

just an aside....Mite got his nickname because when he was newborn I called him a "tiny little speck...a teensy mite of humanity". DS15s nickname is actually highly recognizable on the web because ages ago, when he was a tadpole, I wrote regularly to the usenet groups about him. So, I can't use it here.

Well WG -
You could call DS15 "Rite" and in "Mite" doesn't equal "Rite."
Ania -
Ok - seems like this is the age were a non-parent mentor is the best way to go. Can you take him Mentor shopping at the local University?

I mean, just knock on doors in a good guess department and introduce yourself until you get someone who agrees to meet your son, then that someone can get other someones to continue talking to your son.

Other ideas - The teaching company CD's on a long car ride, gifted summer camp, setting up a Davidson informal gathering if your in YSP, or a teen get together for you statewide gifted org if not.

Also - sit and watch him play Runescape, is he interested in killing monsters, selling items in his stores, collecting items or chatting online during the play? If he likes selling items, perhaps he'd be interested in the stock market. If it's the chatting, then put your energy into gathering like minded tweens and teens together. My DS10 is lucky enough to have a Yu-gi-oh card tournament in out home town, so he get to hang out with mixed age "fellow nerds" on a weekly basis. Why go out of your way to help him hang out with bright boys? Because the will create a social atmousphere where it is ok to want to learn and develop.

In a way the gradeskip will give him a disadvantage in competitions, but is winning competions a priority compared to DS being in a academic/social environment that may keep him engaged with learning at school? He seems immature to you, but I know that my DS10 is highly variable in his maturity - that is - in many ways he's fully adult in his maturity and in many ways he seems a year or two behind for his age. Be sure you spend enough time around normal 11 and 12 year olds so you are being a fair judge. There isn't any "maturity test," as far as I know. (That's why it's not part of the Iowa Acceleration Scale, I did ask.)

Good luck, and enjoy him as much as possible. Remember that his brain probably isn't shriveling up right this second with the math and LA accomidation. ((Wink)) He's probably using his intelligence in a direction that's difficult for adults to see - one can hope!


Trinity

I have been thinking about the mentor for quite some time now. Will have to do some investigating at the university . I also started checking out classes at the local CC. Will keep you posted.
As for Runescape, it is definately mostly chatting and selling. I actually believe that he is chatting a lot with the girl form class that really likes him ;-). DS11 would love to play the stock market, we just have to find time to help him get started!
What do you mean by "Teaching Comapny CD's ?
We are not YSP - I don't know if I have the energy to go through the process. Begging for letters, prooving what is right there in the open, making more enemies...
Have to go, I am running a Book Club today at my DD9 school (children's literature in translation)
Will check back tonight.
Ania

Hi Ania,
http://www.teach12.com/teach12.asp?ai=16281 is the link for the teaching co. I'm going through the Ancient Egypt currently and can't wait to get back in the car.

have you tried the Standard Deviant DVD's - they are more for fun.

As for Davidson, my reccomendation, is that if you have the test scores already, and they fit in the guidelines, just fill out the application and ask for the reccomendations - no begging. His Language Arts teacher would probably be kind enough to do one, and his Geometry teacher. After all, they aren't going to be surpirsed. From then on think if it as a nice plus, but certianly not a nescessity. Just the way you probably encourage your son to try new activities that he isn't sure he'll succeed at.

Sounds like you are on the right track-
Trinity

Hi Ania,

You could also ask for recommendations from your son's music teacher. I had my DD's piano teacher do one of the recommendation letters.

Mite don't make Rite...chuckle.

The mentoring concept is marvo. Finding one is a bit complicated, imo, unless you live near a U or in a high funda city.

I'm wondering if we need to find one for general or should it be topic specific?

Not one of Mite's teachers is willing to sponsor him because they "just don't see it" (quoting 2 of them:^(. So, we have his neuropsychologist and chiropractor on his list. The chiropractor actually sensed Mite's intelligence the first days we met him when Mite was 6. Mite was looking at a stuffed horse that clicked and popped when you pushed on its spine and he lisped, "I'm going to name him 'Whiplath the Chiropractic Pony'. Get it? Whiplath becauth that'th what chiropractorth treat and whiplath becauth that'th what riderth do to hortheth." The chiropractor thought that was quite 'smart' and 'witty'.

It is strange who will sponsor and who won't. Teachers.....erg!!!

Hi,

You received lots of good advice. Here is my two cents. Last year, we had our child (boy) go from first grade to third/fourth grade class in a different school. He was a summer boy and the oldest in his first grade class(7 years old).

Bottom line, it did not work out for us. The older children (8 to 10)were socially very far ahead of our child. He stopped reading and only wanted to play video games and such.

Finally, we decided to home school and it is working out great. We are in our 8th week and really enjoying it.

Just another opinion...

The funny thing for us is the teachers are all saying the reason he is being teased and harassed by his classmates is because he is socially much more mature than they are.

The reason they don't want to sponsor him is because they feel he's not gifted, even though his tests indicated he is and he is 2e.

Socially he's not going to fit in anywhere, imo. Unfortunately for us homeschooling is not an option at this point. We reqally wish it was.

WG -
Whenever a person mentions the word gifted, I always remind myself that that particular word means something to them, and it may have nothing to do with what I see it as. So I alway ask and ask and ask, till I get them talking. I do try not to cross examine, but yeah, a bit of that goes on also. It helps me stay sane.
Trin
BTW WG -
You mention that you were active on usenets back in the "Rite" days - any cautions or stories about reprocussions from that?
Thanks in advance -
Trinity

Really back in those days (about 88-94) things were mellow on the usenet and arapnet. My youngun was actually kinda famous for the stories I wrote about him.

Interesting thing was anything that I wrote and asked about giftedness was ridiculed. People were very down on me for thinking he was gifted.

So things have changed, WG, from your perspective? That's good to hear! Did the "fame" have any reprocussions?
Trinity

only good ones. people still email me and ask how he is doing. they still want to hear his stories, but he's 15 now and stuff isn't quite as cute...though he is very witty and sarcastic (runs in the family).

We used to have get-togethers. Most of my posts were in the misc.kids group. I think some are still archived somewhere. Those used to be such intense discussions. People weren't quite so PC back then; so, things weren't considered flames until they really hit a feverish and hateful pitch. I quit when everything started to be hateful.

I learned so much from those people. They really helped me raise the kiddo.

That's so sweet.
Thank you Willa Gayle

SF Parent:
That is partially what I worry about as for grade acceleration. Also, I just realized it the other day, one of those 'aha' moments....when we accelerate our different/strange/bizzare/gifted children through the grades, they end up being in the class with exactly the same kids, just older. 4th graders are not smarter than 2 graders, they are just older . I so stronly believe that PG kids should be grouped togehter, this would probably facilitate an experience of a lifetime. Why do they like so much summer programs for the gifted? Because that meet they intelectual peers, not older children.
I also think that learning should be broadened as much as possible for those kids, not necessarily pushed forward. Having said that, I am still a mother of an 11 year old who is taking geometry :-) and am just fine with that.
Ania

I think a grade skip will never happen. I think Mite will never socially fit in until he's with his intellectual peers. I agree that a child's intellectual peers are not necessarily the children in the grade level in which he can learn. Nor are they necessarily his chronological age mates.

Mite's peers are other gifted children.

Now I just have to find where those might be geographically. In the meantime, I have to make the public school work for him or at least make the day to day activities of public education less painful for him.