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    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Mia Offline
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    Katelyn'sMom -- I wouldn't worry about levels too much yet; your dd is still so young. However, I think Level 5s are one of these, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it" sort of things.

    My cousin, now 24, is a level 5. When doing an intelligence assessment at 3yo, he was shown a picture of a pot with some steam coming out, and he was asked, "What is this?" He answered, "Vaporized water," as he saw the steam -- didn't even think "pot."

    My own ds is HG+, but not a level 5. I "know" several level 5s online, and it's just clear when one turns up. You see HG+ children fairly often in the gifted circles online, but Level 5 kids really are pretty rate. I think it will become clearer as your dd ages.

    And to any newbies out there -- early speech is often an indicator of giftedness, but normal-rate speech doesn't mean the child is not gifted if doing other notable things. My ds didn't speak in 2+ word combos until he was 27 mo -- but did have quite a few sight words, would one-to-one count to 10 by then, etc. So don't decide your dc isn't gifted if not an early talker! smile


    Mia
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    As I understood it--so take this with a grain of salt--motivation is the key difference between levels 4 and 5.

    Both sorts of kids can learn pretty much whatever you put in front of them, but level 5s are the sort who are just driven to learn virtually all the time. Level 4s are less self-motivated but just as capable. And level 4s can become level 5s when working on something they care about. Their pet projects transport them into level 5 territory.

    As a side note: I always warn against the notion that GT kids don't need to be taught. By definition, they do learn things more quickly and easily than the average kid, and some things they certainly piece out by themselves without instruction. But I worry that this "they teach themselves" idea plays into neglectful teaching situations and lack of challenge. Some GT kids really go like mad on their own, but not all. And even these self-motivated kids are almost certain to hit a point at which they need some help of some sort from an experienced teacher. Granted, that may not happen until graduate school, but I think it will inevitably occur if a kid keeps growing and learning. And most GT kids need teaching long before grad school if they are to keep growing.

    Sorry to soapbox you. blush I just think that this is a potentially dangerous myth about GT kids, and it worries me, so I always try to say something when the subject comes up.

    Carry on! smile


    Kriston
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    I have the same issues with DS7 and levels, Dottie. I came to the conclusion that he's a level 4 on most things and a level 5 on his pet projects.

    Is that what Dr. Ruf would say? I dunno. (I'm not sure I want to know...) But it works fine for me. wink


    Kriston
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    I'm not sure I buy the 3 for your DS. 4, okay. 3, not so much...

    <cough> Denial! <cough>

    wink


    Kriston
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    There you go! Now I'm back on board! grin


    Kriston
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    acs Offline
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    I think the difference between 4 and 5 is two things:

    1) Motivation/Intensity/Drive
    and
    2) Breadth

    So I think a kid can't be a level 5 unless they have #1 in multiple areas. So a kid who performs at level 5 levels in only one area, is still only a level 4.

    Again, I know level 5 people and there is an intensity to them that you definitely know when you see it.

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    So is there some other information that led you to the motivation conclusion? Because I didn't get motivation from Ruf but maybe I just did not read between the lines enough. smile

    I do agree with you on needing to be taught and this is where we were having problems with the level 5 because she makes it out like they just miraculously have the knowledge and no one really has to teach them anything.

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    Ladybug,

    I am fairly new myself and found this site very helpful and I will pass on the information I received from my first post. Please start a separate string so your post does not get lost in the string like this one did. I found it very helpful and people are so thoughtful and welcoming I am sure you will find some useful advise. As for your question about your DD, I just bought and read (For the most part) Ruf's book 'Losing Our Minds: Gifted Children Left Behind'. She gives 5 levels of giftedness and by your post your child appears to be gifted, but you might want to post a longer one telling more about what you have witnessed. Also think back to how she was as an infant, because research shows the importance of this time in your child's life. Did she meet milestones or excel during the first 6 months? If she didn't it does not mean she is not gifted, just points to different levels within gifted.

    And above all ... trust your instincts, because no one knows your child better than you do and if you are seeking answers to explain why your child is the way she is ... than I think you already believe that she is gifted.

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    acs Offline
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    Katelyn'sMom, Do you have the book or are you just looking at the website? If you look at the book on page 53, it talks a little bit about motivation.

    Quote
    People can change their position on the continuum of levels when critical aspects of the environment--particularly their inner environment--change.... Some children have strong inner drives to keep reading and acquiring knowledge...


    This is part of a much larger paragraph which is mostly in there to suggest that kids in unmotivating environments can end up at a lower level that what they are capapble of, but I read it to mean the motivation is part of what predicts a person's level.

    I have a very smart happy-go-lucky kid. I think he could be a level 5 if he was driven to master things, but mostly he likes to hang out, ask questions, and play with his friends. Not that level 5's don't do those things, too, but the ratio of time spent and the intensity of learning are different.

    acs #29517 11/02/08 08:24 PM
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    Acs,

    Thanks for the quote ... I do have the book (got it a few days ago) and started reading it for the most part. I will go back and really look at that section. I guess I was expecting more description within each level and this is where I was focusing most of my reading. Shame on me! But with this information and what Kriston and others have stated it helps make sense of the levels.

    I realize my 26 month old is still too young to get a complete understanding of where she falls in the levels. I know she is HG+. The funny thing is my cousin was selected to take a national test back when we were in elementary school (many many moons ago) and granted this was kids hand selected by teachers which does not mean the absolute brightest kids were considered, but he was selected and was ranked as the 2nd in the nation. The reason I state this is even he is blown away with my DD abilities. So while reading through Ruf's book I am really hoping my kiddo is not a level 5 because level 3 and 4 is still a scary thing to have to consider but level 5 blows my mind! Those of you that do have level 5 kids I send big hugs and hope that you find a path that works for your kid and then publish the secrets to help the rest of us out!!

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