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    #2829 - 07/20/07 12:03 PM Understanding Test Results-Help!
    pinkmonkey Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/20/07
    Posts: 12
    My 6y/o daughter just took the WISC-IV. I am so confused! Kate has always seemed bright to me, but she is my first child & I really don't know what is "normal". I know she is not exceptionally gifted, but I am suspicious that she is moderately gifted. The WISC-IV has only confused me the more I've researched scoring and what it means.
    We only decided to screen her after she "failed" develpomental readiness screenings for 3 private schools.
    These were the few things that struck me over the years that may indicate giftedness:
    She knew the alphabet by age three and all the sounds letters make with very little instruction.
    At around 18 to 20 months old, she looked out the car window from a red light and said "That's where doggies go"...this was a small nondescript, no signage shop in a strip mall where we only occasionally took the dogs to be groomed. I was shocked she noticed/recognized/remembered this.
    She made her first, funny joke at age two.
    At age Four, she worked successfully on adult jigsaw puzzles for so long I had to take them away from her.
    She has an intense, ongoing love of the natural world and corrects adults regarding animals, animal behavior, habitat, etc.

    Anyway,here are her WISC-IV scores.

    VCI 124
    (Her scores on the subtests her were all 14. Is this 2 standard deviations from the mean? So is this the low end of gifted scoring?

    PRI 129

    Now here is where I think her FSIQ was artificially lowered:
    WMI 110
    PSI 88!!!!

    That PSI score of 88 places her in the 21st percentile. That is what prompted me to research these scores. Apparently PSI is a poor indicator of intellectual ability.Kate is a perfectionist
    and worked with 100% accuracy on that subtest but timed out.

    I would appreciate any info/ comments. Let me just say, I know she is bright and I'm FINE (beyond fine...just thankful to have a healthy child) if she is "merely" bright and not gifted. Just seeking insight!

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    #2830 - 07/20/07 01:09 PM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: pinkmonkey]
    Cathy A Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/26/07
    Posts: 1783
    Loc: West coast, USA
    Do you think her strengths are mostly visual/spatial? See http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Visual_Spatial_Learner/vsl.htm It could be that this test was not really testing her strengths. I have read that the SB-5 is more oriented toward visual/spatial abilities and does not have time pressure.

    I believe that a standard deviation on the WISC-IV is 15pts. So two standard deviations from the mean would be 130.

    I hope this helps!

    Cathy

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    #2832 - 07/20/07 02:06 PM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: Cathy A]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Hi Pinky -
    Your daughter is gifted. The overall WISC scores are not to be used for giftedness because the PRI scores tend to be around average in gifted people. There isn't anything wrong with her. You can use the scores to get a "gifted index" type of score, ask your tester to do that for you.

    Remember that IMHO, test scores never can say how high IQ a kid is, they can just give a botton limit to her possible "real IQ." Ok, i haven't said that well, but I think it's true. As you pointed out, if she is slow and careful (traits we want in school settings) she isn't going to shine on timed tests.

    Now here's the big question. Has the tester given you any insight as to why she is failing the "developmental readiness screenings?"

    Best Wishes,
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #2833 - 07/20/07 03:30 PM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: Grinity]
    delbows Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/25/06
    Posts: 778
    Loc: Midwest
    Hi Pinkmonkey,

    I tried to find the information which backs up my statements. I wasn’t successful in the twenty minutes I looked, but it was probably on the Davidson Gifted Database. Maybe someone else will fill in the details.

    Essentially, when the new SB and the new WISC were tested to norm the gifted population, the scores decreased considerable as compared to the scores the subjects had earned on previous tests. Both tests ended with a gifted average full scale IQ of 123.something for children who had scores of at least 130 on the earlier versions. My son was tested by a psychologist who helped test the gifted population for one of the tests. This psychologist stated that most children that he tested had previous scores above 140.

    As Trinity stated, I also understand that VCI and PRI are the sub-tests that are considered to be the best indicators of giftedness on the WISC-IV.

    So, as just another mom who has read about the topic, it looks like your child is at least in the moderately gifted range on this “snap-shot” measurement. I would consider it a minimum and test again at 9 or 10.

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    #2834 - 07/20/07 03:43 PM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: delbows]
    delbows Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/25/06
    Posts: 778
    Loc: Midwest
    Who preformed the developmental readiness screenings?

    Why?

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    #2835 - 07/20/07 04:25 PM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: delbows]
    pinkmonkey Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/20/07
    Posts: 12
    Thanks to everyone for your comments.

    Kate was screened by a teacher at a private school as part of their admission process. This involves spending 10-15 min with a total stranger, they ask the child to draw a simple picture, say their ABC's, identify letters and some short words, count to 10, very basic stuff. Kate was uncooperative and refused to perform some or most of the tasks. Mind you, she has been drawing pretty intricate mosaics for awhile now, reads, and can count to 100. I guess she just didn't feel like jumping through that hoop for a stranger. So that is what prompted the assessment.The psychologist said she felt that was Kate's way of taking control over the situation. Kate is somewhat shy and has some pretty pronounced perfectionist tendencies. She also demonstrates a fair amount of anxiety when asked to read aloud and encounter an unfamiliar word. She will hardly sound a word out; she will read it aloud when she is confident she knows it.

    The psychologist also administered a WWCJ-III Achievement Test; Kate scored in the 99th percentile on the Academic Knowledge subtest. I do not know if that is significant as far as IQ goes.

    I did speak to the psychologist who recommended bringing Kate back in 3 years or so. It looks like Kate's WISC-Iv scores have her right at the threshold of giftedness.

    Does anyone have any experience with their child being retested? I ahave read that your IQ cannot actually be lower than a test result, but can be higher. However, I also read that for a 6 yr old they should be accurate within, say, 8 points. Have any of you had a child retested?

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    #2836 - 07/20/07 05:50 PM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: pinkmonkey]
    delbows Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/25/06
    Posts: 778
    Loc: Midwest
    My daughter was tested at seven on the WISC-III and at ten on the WISC-IV. Her FSIQ score decreased considerable with the new test, as did her verbal score.

    The second test was part of a multi-day battery to determine whether she has a learning disability. (Auditory perception and processing and expressive language problems were highly suspected by the PhD psychology/MA education head of dept. of a large university, but we (would) have to defer to an audiologist and speech therapist for an official diagnosis.)

    Her WISC-III (7 yrs) subtests were as follows: FSIQ 141

    Verbal Comprehension 144
    Perceptual Organization 133
    Freedom from Distractibility 98
    Processing Speed 129


    Her WISC-IV (10 yrs) subtests were as follows: FSIQ 124 (same as gifted norm group)

    Verbal Comprehension 116
    Perceptual Reasoning 133
    Working Memory 110
    Processing Speed 109

    I can say with certainty that she is (at least) moderately gifted. Her early development was quite advanced in comparison to age peers. I know her LD depresses her scores, but we live in an area that doesn’t recognize 2E, so supporting her giftedness is a higher priority in our forced choice situation.

    BTW, she is very visual. To my knowledge, no one has ever beat her at a game of Concentration, including her Young Scholar brother.

    I hope this example helps.

    Diana

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    #2838 - 07/20/07 06:23 PM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: delbows]
    pinkmonkey Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/20/07
    Posts: 12
    Diana,

    Well from what I've read you can assume the 141 is more correct.
    What did the psychologist say about that difference?
    I've read that kids can have a bad day and score lower, but that the highest score rec'd is always the more accurate.
    Also, some of that drop comes from the different versions of the WISC....right?

    Cheryl

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    #2840 - 07/21/07 07:23 AM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: Dottie]
    pinkmonkey Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/20/07
    Posts: 12
    Thanks dottie for that info on the subtests. Kate's subtest scores as follows:

    VERBAL COMPREHENSION SUBTESTS 124
    similarities 14
    vocabulary 14
    comprehension 14

    PERCEPTUAL REASONING INDEX 129
    block design 14
    picture concepts 17
    matrix reasoning 13

    According to these, I think you could make a case that Kate is gifted, but her FSIQ does not support this.

    WORKING MEMEORY INDEX 110
    digit span 13
    letter number sequencing 11


    PROCESSING SPEED INDEX 88
    coding 8
    symbol search 8


    I guess this is just a little frustrating for me because if you calculate and look at GAI, she is gifted. If you look at FSIQ, she's not. So, how do I descibe her? I have to admit, gifted is on the tip of my tongue yet I don't want to feel like I'm fudging her abilities.

    To everyone...are your kids in gifted classes? Kate is starting 1st grade at a private college prep school...I don't think they even have "gifted" classes." I am interested in the Duke Talent Search...is anyone familiar with that?

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    #2842 - 07/21/07 09:28 AM Re: Understanding Test Results-Help! [Re: Dottie]
    pinkmonkey Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/20/07
    Posts: 12
    Dottie...the psychologist administered the full WJ-III Achievement Test. The Academic Knowledge subtest was just the one Kate scored the highest on. The psychologist said we might want to repeat this in another year after she had a year of school under her belt. She has been in a Montessori program since age 3. That environment is very child-led. As a matter of fact, Kate was the only kindergarten student there last year. I didn't realize that until the end of the year graduation ceremony! So I think that was not a very good place for her. She received very little instruction in math and preferred to spend her time doing artwork. My husband and I grew concerned when we looked at the work she was bringing home and there was no math and not much reading work...it was almost 100% artwork. So her WJ scores varied pretty wildly, from the 133 on academic knowledge, 122 on oral comprehension (these were her two highest) to a low of 111 on letter-word identification (which really doesn't make sense to me; I would have thought she would have scored higher here)and a pitiful 96 on spelling (these were her two lowest).
    I didn't read much into this test because I thought it was more a reflection of her less than challenging Montessori environment.
    I also have done nothing at home except to read to my children. They have had no "extra" beyond that. These issues with the screening problems were really a blessing in disguise, b/c I realize how very important their education is to me.
    What is a DYS child? Is that dyslexia?
    Have you had all three of your children tested? Honestly, this all made me nervous and I'm debating whether to have my 5 yo tested next year.

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