Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment More info on WASI Anyone?

Hello. I am new here, and I have learned so much just by reading prior posts. Thanks to all of you! However, I do have some questions that I haven't found by searching....

My DD8 was given a WASI IQ Test in early May. Her Standard Scores were:
Vocabulary: 16, 98th Percentile
Similarities: 15, 95th percentile
Block Design: 19, 99.9th percentile
Matrix Reasoning: 16, 98th percentile

Her VIQ is 134, 99th percentile
PIQ is 148, 99.9th percentile
FSIQ is 147, 99.9th percentile

When I asked the tester some questions about the test ceilings, I found out that DD8 only missed 1 question out of 28 on Matrix Reasoning. And apparently the block design subtest has 13 different designs and you get credit if you get it right within the time limit. DD8 got 12 of the 13 right within the time limit (tester said it was very, very good for her age). You get extra points if you get them done within the shortest period of time, but DD8 didn't do that.

Based on what I've read about test ceilings, I asked if we should get her tested on a different test with a higher ceiling. Tester said No, because the WASI doesn't include the subtests that gifted kids aren't as good at (like memory skills). Therefore, tester thinks her FSIQ would actually end up lower on a different test.

I didn't care until I found the school of dreams. It's a public school that only admits those in 99th percentile on SB5. I toured it today and fell in love. Kids are kept with age peers, but since they're all in 99th percentile, they are also intellectual peers (I didn't think such a school existed). Everything about this school seems perfect for DD8! They learn a new language each year, every child has a laptop - that they have to keep at school, so no getting hooked on games yet :-), they go on field trips monthly to learn about the world, they do PE, etc. mixed in with all the other kids, The elementary curriculum is Pre-IB, and those in their high school program get an IB diploma, etc.

So now I'm freaking out about this testing. We are in a pretty bad situation currently where the school has never done anything extra for gifted above the 2.5 hour pullout weekly. They are now trying to do compacting, differentiation, and subject acceleration for DD8, but they have a long way to go before they get it - I think DD8 will be long gone by then....

Does anyone have any other indication of how DD8 will do on the SB5 based on her WASI scores above? When I called to tell DH about the school, I ended up in tears as I was describing it. He thinks I'm totally crazy since I explained that I was crying "because it's so perfect and there's no way she'll ever get in." Only 40% of those who apply get in, and you have to be in the 99th percentile on a Weschler test to even apply! As you can tell by the posting time, I'm losing sleep over this, so any reassurance would be wonderful... but of course, I need honesty too :-) (no pressure)

First off Breath.......... from the test scores your daughter qualifies. So calm down and get some sleep

Sorry for the confusion. The school requires any Weschler test score in the 99th percentile just to apply. Once you apply, they do a SB5 on each child. If the child doesn't test in the 99th percentile on that, you're out. If the child does test in 99th, the selection process continues.

So it sounds like you're confirming what the tester told me - that DD8 will likely not be in the 99th percentile on their SB5 test. Thanks for your expertise Dottie - I was hoping you'd reply. I don't know how you know so much about testing, but it was obvious from reading prior postings that you are 'the bomb' :-)

It seems like I saw somewhere on here that some of what they test for on the SB5 are things that DD8 may be very good at if she had been exposed. Does anyone know what areas those are so we can at least expose her to the content?

She spent most of her school day during 1st and 2nd grades reading fiction (not because we were fine with that - we just recently found out). So of course, she's reading/comprehending at a high school level :-). She tested as highly gifted in math on the TOMAGS test (138), but she definitely has not been exposed to anything past multiplication and division. So if I had a clue what to expose her to, I could do a little exposure at home before the SB5 test. Or is that crazy? I know you can't really prepare for an IQ test....

The PG magnet for a neighboring state has the same WISC as a screen only and a SB as THE qualifier policy. I wonder how they justify this distinction.

The school sounds wonderful and I hope your daughter can get in.

First off, let me issue a disclaimer. I don't know anything about the WAIS test that your daughter took. Dottie is certainly in a better position to say what those scores indicate. My humble advice would be to go ahead with the application and let whatever be will be, provided that it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg to apply. You will always wonder if you don't apply if your DD could have been accepted, and will only have piece of mind if you go for it. We all go through some form of gifted denial around here, where we think that our child can not possible be as gifted as we think. She might surprise you quite a bit. Just try to relax and cast your cards to the wind.

My DS has only been tested on the WISC-IV, so I have no experience with the SB-V. But in general, I think that you can't really prep them for these tests. They measure something abstract, i.e. how they go about solving problems or seeing connections. It is not like an achievement tests where they will be penalized if they haven't seen long division before. So just make sure that she has had a good night sleep and a healthy breakfast. Some people may talk to their child about how to give lengthy answers to the questions, or at least not to be afraid of talking about a question in some detail. I didn't do anything like that with my son. I was fearful that if I tried to tell him any strategies, then he would start to over-think his answers. So I just pretended that it was all a big, fun, game that he was playing.

Also, with your DD's scores, she looks to have a high ability on the perceptional reasoning section. You might inquire whether you DD can get entrance to the school with one score at the 99% level, or if it has to be a FSIQ at the 99% level. (Oh, I see Dottie already mentioned this!) And does the gifted school pay for having the SB-V testing done? If they do the testing for you for free, then it would be worth it to have the results. (I'm probably being very naive here! ) But with those test results in hand, you may be in a better place to go back to your DD's original school and get some changes made? Just a thought? You may get something positive out of applying for the school, even if you don't get in?

FWIW, a 2.5 hour pullout weekly for gifted instruction sounds heavenly to me. My son gets less than 30 minutes per week! Just to keep things in perspective!

I have no info on the WAIS for you but my son did take the SB-V.

I agree with the pp, there isn't much you can really do to prepare your child. We did talk to DS about how to take the test- he's 5 and been tested once before in a very bad situation. I needed him to feel positive, excited and focused. We told him that sometimes the questions are too easy and you have to answer them anyway. And sometimes, they're too hard and it's okay to guess. I'd heard that often gifted kids struggle with the easiest questions because they think there must be a harder answer somewhere and question themselves. Or they just won't do it.

I'm guessing that her previous testing exposure will be enough to have her understand what to do on the SB-V and the importance of it. My son enjoyed the experience immensely, made friends with his tester and asks when he can go back and see if she can try to trick him again.

Sounds like it's worth a shot no matter what happens. You don't want to wonder later what might have happened.

Thanks all. eBeth - you are so right about keeping perspective. What we have now is certainly better than nothing.

I didn't go into details about DD8 in my original post, but she has completely shut down at school, spending most of each day reading fiction and refusing to do the schoolwork. It started 2 years ago and got progressively worse. She was in tears again already the first week of school this year telling us she has nothing to learn in the 3rd grade. Up until she started having these 'behavior' problems, we were completely happy with the pullout program.

I am getting frustrated with her current school. I agree that her not doing what the teacher says is disrespectful and not OK, but they act like she is physically hurting other kids. I always imagined behavior problems to be something worse than reading. So while they are focusing all their efforts on behavior modification, I am advocating for them to focus on the curriculum issue and watch the behavior issue disappear. They respond by saying (in so many words) "We're the experts here. You need to let us do our jobs and we'll let you know how it's going at the normal twice/year conference". I made it clear that I would love to, but that strategy didn't work so well for us the first 2 years there.

I didn't mean to knock pullout programs or anything else the current school is doing. I just want DD8 to be engaged in learning again, so I'm researching all options in case our current situation doesn't improve a LOT and FAST. I don't want to be here 2 years from now thinking "I should have done more."

You asked if the GT school pays for testing, and I do think it does since it's a public school, so we will apply and do the testing for sure.

I really like the idea of making sure she knows she should guess if she doesn't know the answer. She is definitely uncomfortable with the idea of getting an answer wrong, so I could see her saying she doesn't know instead of trying to guess.

Thanks again everyone. This is such a great forum. I'm so glad I found you guys - I feel like friends think I'm bragging, so I try not to discuss it much. But I have really learned so much about GT Education from you all.

I know this is an older post, but I hope somebody would see my question.

Does that mean WASI score is not accurately measuring whether a child is gifted or not? DS just used that to get in the EPGY program. Oops!

Thank you Dottie!!

I talked to EPGY and they said they accept any kind of WISC. You only need 120 to qualify.

Now my question is, should I put DS on the program? What are the benefits? He is in a private school, and what the school is doing in math is a little easy for him but he is not bored. I supplement a lot at home using various workbooks, online programs, like Beestar etc. So he is learning and doing work above his grade level. He is seven and in second grade by the way. I gave him NYS math test for 4th grade, he could solve most of them but some were new to him. So he learned from there. I'm sure he is not very gifted but he does work above grade level and he has the ability to understand more complex concepts.

Another question is what is the difference between John Hopkins and EPGY? Is there a reason to favor one over the other? I'm going to schedule SCAT for him, we have to take it from there because JH could be totally out of the question.

Anyway, I learned so much just by reading all the posts here, and Dottie, you rock! Thanks a lot!

Mic