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    Joined: Apr 2008
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    JBDad Offline OP
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    (I tend to recap because I know others might not know me but may also find replies helpful in their situation... sorry to my e-friends for the repetitious repetition)

    Where we are now: advocated for and received early admission into first for DS5.5, skipping K. DS is definitely gifted, but we're not 100% sure of his LOG (at a minimum he's solidly HG). For our DS, where his birthday falls, and our situation, this seemed to be the best choice.

    So, it's been a full week of first grade, and initially it was a little hectic. Going a full day was (is) tough on the little guy, but he has seemed to settle into this new routine. This was actually one of our last areas of concerns as during this summer he was still taking late afternoon naps. We got creative and we now have "brain breaks" for 30 - 45 minutes after school. They are like naps, but because we use different semantics, DS doesn't resist laying down during that time smile His behavior at school--as far as we know--has been great. In fact he'll tell us about his peers that have already lost part of recess time due to their behavior but he (according to him) is listening to the teacher. Good boy! smile

    We're still in the middle of review but the material (surprise) that he's getting for math and reading are for things that he's been able to do for probably about a year now. We're very lucky in that despite being very enthusiastic about school, he'll still do his homework (even though he finds it boring). However, it's starting to get tougher and tougher to motivate him. And based on what they've been sending home, it's going to be a long while before they get to interesting topics for him. Here in PA we do have a process to get a GIEP (it's been started) but he won't be officially identified and get his GIEP until Oct/Nov. We don't want to wait that long because we don't want him to disengage from school. We're already seeing lots of "doodles" on sheets. I'll admit... some of this may be normal. The gap between we he can do and what he is doing in school right now though is very large (can I get a BTDT?!)

    So finally I'm getting to the point smile We have arranged to talk with the teacher to see how we can work together to keep DS engaged. She's gotten back to us nearly immediately via email and she is aware that he skipped K and she's read his psychologist report. All positive signs. Unfortunately we'll have just 30 minutes (max) to talk about the situation. Suggestions welcome. DW and I are going to brainstorm about how to best approach it. Since this is the first meeting we're going to have to balance the relationship building part with the urgency part. I don't want to see DS's school experience deteriorate. Then that might turn into "see we should have never allowed this".

    The objectives for this meeting is an initial hello-how-do-ya-do-we're-SON's-parents and let's-work-on-a-plan. Suggestions on our approach would be appreciated.

    JB

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    Do you have any sense that she knows how bored he is? I'm wondering if this will all be a surprise to her.


    Kriston
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    Mia Offline
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    And now you come to the very big problem that HG+ kids have in school. Grade skips are good and all, but one typically isn't going to be enough, or two, or three in the long run. And at 3+ years, they likely *will* feel some negative effects socially, whereas the one year difference is negligible.

    Ugh.

    The teacher's probably going to recommend "waiting and seeing" -- which is what "they" tend to do. It buys them time. However, it might not be a bad idea here, since as you point out, they *are* reviewing.

    I have no idea what to tell you. Maybe ask about in-class differentiation -- or is she already? You guys have had achievement testing done, haven't you? I'm sorry I don't remember off-hand ...



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    JBDad Offline OP
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    Achievement tests showed that at 5y4m he was at 1:8 grade level for math and 3:0 grade level reading IIRC. This is off the top of my head. So to your point: we need some sort of in-class differentiation to bridge the gap between now and when we get a formal GIEP.

    JB


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    JBDad Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    Do you have any sense that she knows how bored he is? I'm wondering if this will all be a surprise to her.

    Don't know. This will be something we'll ask about though (in a non-threatening way)

    JB

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    I'm curious to hear how your meeting goes and can't really offer you much advice since we are in the same boat. Our boys are similar in age and we got our unofficial acceleration this year to 1st grade (for over 1/2 the day--due to strict age guidelines my son must remain an official K student for the first 2.5 hours of his day). I know that the first grade work will not be enough in math or reading and I hope our school, where there is no gifted mandates, can live up to their promise to differentiate.

    I'm glad your son seems to be adjusting to the full day 1st grade. I think keeping him motivated is probably going to be the biggest challenge without some differentiation.


    Crisc
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    You could ask if she uses pre-tests for material? I know that they do this in higher grades (by 3rd and 4th), but I'm not sure about in first grade. Pre-tests are quite useful for math in determining the skill level of an individual. However, the next question would be... If he passes a pre-test on a particular math topic that the intrepid first grade class is about to explore, then what? She would need to find some other material for your DS to do while she is covering the basics with the rest of the class.

    In first and second grade, our DS's teachers stressed that they did not want to give material that went beyond their grade level for fear of stepping on the next grade teacher's toes. So you may run into the wall of how do they provide material that is to a greater depth of knowledge when the material is relatively simple (addition facts, etc). Deeper verses faster. It is a challenge.

    Just make sure that they don't treat "needs additional challenges" as "needs more busy work". You son shouldn't have to do 30 addition problems instead of 10, just because he can fly through them. There is no surer way to make him detest school than that! Or become an underachiever! If working hard and speeding through easy material just gets you more of the same, then you are going to start underperforming. The other trap that we saw is that DS's first grade teacher would tell him that he could have extra challenging problems if he did the easy work that was assigned first. DS found the easy problems so unpalatable that we rarely chose to do all the easy problems in order to get to the harder ones that she had set aside. He would much rather have played with the kid sitting next to him (and thus preventing that kid from getting his work done). Kids see this strategy as an additional penalty... they still have to do much more work than the other kids in order to have the joy of learning something new. It is better to allow them to skip the easy questions and move on to the interesting ones.

    Reading may be easier to differentiate. It is not too difficult to have a range of books available for the classroom. And I have found that as long as my son has at least one subject that is new and stimulating, then he can handle the tedious review of material in other subjects.

    Last edited by ebeth; 09/09/08 08:05 PM. Reason: typo

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    My 2 cents: this first meeting you should let the teacher do most of the talking. That will give you the opportunity to understand whether she understands your son or not. If she does, then ask for a follow-up where you present ideas on keeping him challenged. If she doesn't get him, there's not much point (in my experience) in asking her to differentiate for him. So, then you have to decide what to do next.

    As far as ideas for what he can do in class:
    - read chapter books (either what you send in or he goes to the library)
    - illustrate a 1st grade book
    - above level brain teasers
    - Puzzlemania or some type of workbook like that
    - extra computer time.

    I think you open the conversation with the Hi, how are you, how's it working out with DS in your classroom? Then let her talk. You might ask about how he's interacting with the other kids or if he really is listening or how well she thinks he is engaged. Maybe ask about her discipline problems and empathize (oh, yeah, we know how hard it can be to have one that acts up).

    THEN, when you've got the measure of the teacher you can plan how to ask for more. Or, you might have to go up a level. I don't mean to be negative. We had a teacher last year who took affront to me asking her about challenging Pud and she just never did get it. Had I realized that at first, I wouldn't have beaten my head on the brick wall so much. She wanted it her way and actually told us "I've been doing this x years and this is the way I'll keep doing it". Had I *really* paid attention at the first meeting, I might have picked up on this. Or maybe not.

    So, there's my advice. You get what you pay for! Seriouly, though, good luck. I hope you are successful.

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    JBDad Offline OP
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    Funny. That matches our current agenda. We're geeks; we brainstormed last night and came up with our agenda... (just something for us to keep in our heads, not something to distribute to her)

    We're going to start with that exact same question "how is he doing" and move on to what will be coming in the next few weeks and if we have time ask about when differentiation will begin.

    Good suggestions all! Thanks.

    JB

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    JBDad Offline OP
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    Exactly how our introductions started! And it was very true. DS's writing has progressed AMAZINGLY well in just the week he's been in school. We've heard a lot of good things about this teacher so I'm hopeful.

    And you hit the nail on the head. He's taking phonic quizzes when the child reads easily at the 2nd/3rd grade level. So we need to offer him something between now and the official GIEP. Similar with math.

    And we re-watched Todd's presentation on intro to GIEPs last night. We're definitely aware/concerned about the cookie cutter approach.

    Thanks!

    JB

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    Ditto to what has already been said. I'd suggest using this meeting to let the teacher tell you what she knows and how she sees your son. My biggest advocacy tip: be friends. You want the teachers on your team! It's never good to establish an adversarial relationship with that teacher.

    Just a BTDT story now. My son was also early entrance into first. He was also 5 years 5 months when he started (March bday, perchance?!). After 6 weeks of first grade MrWiggly asked, "When does second grade start?" When I told him not until the next year he said, "WHAT?! But I'm *through* with first grade already! Why do I have to wait so long for second??!"

    Out of the mouths of babes. Good luck - the fun has just begun!

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    I'm reading this thread with interest - lots of good suggestions. I do have a quick question for JBDad, though (or anyone else, really): What is the best way to set up the initial meeting?

    When I ask this, really what I'm wondering is: How do you characterize what you'd like to meet about, and at what level of detail? Is it sufficient just to request a meeting "to find out how he's doing", especially if you mostly intend to listen to what the teacher has to say? And how far into the semester is it appropriate to wait? (DS is only in his second week.)

    Our situation is slightly different from JB's, since our DS is only 4.2. He's in a mixed mid-K/K class. They don't have anything like homework (a blessing!), but the downside is that we really don't know what they're doing in class. It's clear that they don't do anything in math or reading that comes close to challenging DS, but the question is what they are doing and whether DS is getting something out of it. That's really what we'd like to find out. Will the teacher expect us to wait until parent/teacher conferences in Nov to find this out? I guess what I'm saying is that I'm encouraged by all the meetings with teachers that people seem to be having, but I want to know what the standards are for having them.

    Can you say "first-time parent"?!

    BB

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    Hey, BBDad, I think EVERYONE here was once a first time parent! Good questions you ask.

    I would suggest that you just initiate contact with the teacher in whatever way seems most natural - either face to face when picking up/dropping off a child, email or note, phonecall or whatever. Simply state that you are very curious to know more about curriculum and what the day is like for your son and would like to have a chance to chat. Is there any sort of "back to school night" or PTO night where parents go from class to class? Our school does this and it's when the teachers present an informal review of classroom rules, curriculum, etc. You get to look through your kids desk and see the room.

    If the school doesn't do that prior to conference time then maybe you'd like to set up a 15 to 30 minute meeting to have the teacher do that for you and share a little about how she sees your son progressing.

    There's no reason to wait for conference time, in my opinion. Most all teachers expect parents to initiate the contact if they have concerns or questions. They may be taken by surprise simply because most parents don't do that! Just be respectful of the teacher's time demands and keep the meetings brief with a specific purpose. It's always good to get to know the teacher!

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    Sounds amazingly reasonable, Debbie. Thanks! We do have a "back to school night" next week, but I assume that all the parents will be there then, so probably it won't be a good time to get individual feedback. Maybe it's worth it to wait another week or two and then set up a short meeting. Over the summer, before we met the teacher, the principal told us that she (the teacher) would spend the first few weeks evaluating DS and then come up with a plan for making sure he gets reasonable accommodations. So perhaps after a couple of weeks it will be appropriate to ask what she thinks. I'm just so nervous about being one of "those parents" that I'm practically afraid to set it up!

    BB

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    JBDad Offline OP
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    BBDad: we had a good "in" to set up this meeting. Since DS was granted access into first grade, we contacted the teacher via email with the premise on making sure that DS is fitting well, etc.

    We definitely have to build the relationship with the teacher because she's part of the gifted evaluation process and we're not done with that yet.

    We're not going to have much time though. At first I thought 30 minutes. It'll likely be 15 or 20 so this might just be the first meeting with a follow up later...

    JB

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    JB: Yes, that seems like a good way to think about it - what is your "in". What is the reason, in other words, that it is appropriate for you to want to take the teacher's time? Our "in" won't be based on a skip, like yours, but rather on the prior arrangements with the principal. But it has been really helpful for me to see that that's what's at stake in setting up the meeting. It should have been obvious to me (D'oh! Slaps forehead) but thanks to you guys for helping me work it through.

    Good luck, JB, on your meeting. Is it coming up soon?

    BB

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    JBDad Offline OP
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    Open house tonight (probably won't get much face time) and then first thing Friday AM.

    Gotten a lot of good ideas here...

    JB

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    JB -
    I like the plan of going in 'only' to listen to 'where the teacher is at' and make an appointment to have an other meeting.

    OTOH, You should bring handwritten Math samples to show what level he is at. I think that you should also go to the Saxon Math website, figure out what level he is at, and buy the next few levels of Math workbooks that are at his challenge level.

    If all goes well, then you can have your son work in his workbooks while the rest of the class does 'their math.' If it doesn't then you can use them at home. I'm a big fan of making the kids work at their readiness level, even if it's only 10 minutes a day, with a parent or friend afterschool, just to get them 'in the groove' of 'yes, they will be expected to work above and beyond, fair or not!'

    This is one of those 'do as I wish I had done' advices.

    Good luck!
    Grinity


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    Hi JB-

    Don't have anything else to add except moral support. You are doing great, just stay the course. As you may recall I had a little incident a few weeks ago when after a year and a half of solid and steady advocation (with a few good results I might add) when the teacher basically said she didn't know about her being gifted but we'll see what the CogAt results are: shocked

    As evidence by all the green faces, I basically snapped! In front of two teachers AND the principal I TOTALLY FREAKED OUT! I yelled at all of them and then I cried! blush

    Ultimately, it all blew over and they still even actually talk to me if you can imagine. Things are going well with the girls, onward we march. smile

    Obviously, you will do much better than me! But even in the off chance the meeting doesn't go just like you'd expect it to, that's fine. Just keep doing what you're doing. You've had excellent results so far and your teacher sounds very receptive, that's so great!

    Let us know how it goes, I love seeing all the success stories lately!

    Neato

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    Val Offline
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    Here's what I've been learning in a practical way recently: people are most motivated when they have ownership of an idea.

    I agree with suggestions to let the teacher do a lot of talking. If you come to her asking for input and help, she may be more responsive than if you approach her saying or even indirectly implying that your son is bored. This can interpreted negatively ("They said I'm a boring teacher!!") I'm not saying it's MEANT that way. I'm saying it can be INTERPRETED that way.

    If she comes up with a creative idea to help him feel challenged and feels that she has ownership of something that will really help one of her students, she'll be more likely to be enthusiastic about the extra effort required. You might be able to inspire some ideas by mentioning, for example, how far his writing has come in only a week. Lots of brainy activities also help writing.

    Gifted kids are different. HG+ kids are really, really different. I have to stop now but want to get into some of my recents thoughts about this idea this evening.

    Val

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    JBDad Offline OP
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    Well, we just got back from the open house. It was good insofar that they're very proactive in making it "a challenging experience for every student no matter their ability". That is a great sign. If nothing else, when speaking to them down the road--not now but later--we can reference the fact that is part of their mission statement.

    However (you knew there was a however right smile ) the are certainly focusing on helping the lower end. As someone who has a special needs Uncle, I sincerely think that's great and those children need help. But there was very little discussion about challenging the children on the upper ends (even though it was in the mission statement). Without getting political, I think this is part of the problem when you don't use a metric that shows all student's growth during a year. The metric that was shown was how much better this school's proficiency level is when compared to the state. Our school is great by that metric. If I was a school administrator and that was my primary metric, then where would I focus on my efforts on? The people not making their grade level proficiency. Ugh.

    Stepping off of the soap box now. Sorry for the distraction, nothing to see here smile

    Got to meet the teacher (I was impressed) but didn't get a chance to do introductions. Saw DS's desk. He didn't tell us he was student of the day! Also got the sense that it's still an usual thing for a typical first grader to be reading. Got to meet the librarian and we had the chance to warn her that she might get asked for certain books... She was a bit stunned but I think it's okay to start getting them comfortable with DS and his current level.

    At any rate, can't wait until Friday AM. Our teacher seems "with it" so I am hopeful.

    JB

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    JBDad Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by Val
    Here's what I've been learning in a practical way recently: people are most motivated when they have ownership of an idea.

    Yes, ownership is key. I agree 100%. So really what it comes down to for this meeting is: making sure he's doing good, follow up questions on what is coming up curriculum-wise (tonight helped to get us educated a little), and then striking a balance between telling her what we observe and asking her how we can support her with DS to keep him engaged. So hopefully she'll find a solution (with our help!) and we'll bridge the gap between now and when the GIEP is in place.

    JB (still optimistic...)

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