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    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    I agree that in order to answer your kids' questions you need to have answered those questions for yourself first.


    You know, now that I think about this some more, I'm not sure I agree. I have a lot of questions about my beliefs--far more questions than answers, actually! It's one of the reasons that I've not really settled on a religion, though I would like to find one that suits me and I definitely consider myself a person who needs some sort of spiritual outlet. But really, I feel pretty okay with having more questions than answers. I mean, no one actually has certainties about these matters! We have beliefs and hopes and guesses, but we're all human. We don't KNOW the answers. The whole point of religion is to guide our beliefs and hopes and guesses. Of course we should share our faith with our kids. But it is human also to have questions, and I think we should share those, too.

    I mean, the reason that kids ask these big, deep, philosophical questions is the same reason that all the world's religions deal with them in one way or another: because they're unknowable, unanswerable. The only answers available to us come out of faith, which is a process, not a destination. So I think it's okay to say, "Here's what we know, here's what we believe, and here's where I still have questions." It's honest, it's real, and it's a valuable portrait of a person trying to answer those same questions that the child is asking.

    We don't feel that we have to have all the answers to the other questions our kids ask, but we still help them to find answers, right? Why are religion and morality any different? Why can't "I don't know, but I'm trying to figure it out" be an acceptable response?

    Sorry. I don't mean to get all philosophical on you over a throw-away comment, Cathy. blush But it struck me when I read that line that it may be all this certainty that's my problem. If I don't have certainty, I think I can still share my spiritual journey with my child in a very effective fashion!

    At least I hope so, since that's what I'm doing...


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    Kriston, I understand what you mean about having asnwers. I think I said something like what Cathy said in one of my earlier posts. For me, what I meant was not that I had to know that answers, but that if I gave an answer, then it had to ring true to me when I said it. I started out giving the answers I thought I was supposed to give, answers I thought my minister might want me to give. But I realized that they kind of stuck in my throat. And I realized that my kid could tell I didn't actually believe it. And I really didn't want to send the message that it is OK to pretend that you know what you don't know and that it OK to believe stuff just because the guy in the black robe says it and that it is OK for a mother to say something that they don't think is true just because it is the easy answer. That's what I mean about having answered those questions for myself (Cathy may mean something else--I'm speaking for myself here). "I'm not sure" and "I don't know" are often the most honest answers for me. I know what I don't know.

    But I know plenty of people who don't know what they know well enough to know that they don't know what they don't know. (yikes. sorry about that sentence). And I think, especially for gifted kids, no good comes from faking this stuff--they know when you're faking.


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    By "answer" I didn't mean something concrete. Your thoughts, i.e. "The only answers available to us come out of faith, which is a process, not a destination," would fit within my idea of an answer.

    I've told my kids what I believe and I've explained that most other people believe in God in some form. Of course, they want to know why someone would believe in God and why people pray, etc. We have talked about how there are many different religions but most share some common features. They enjoy reading Greek and Norse mythology and Bible stories.

    For myself, I don't really have a spiritual journey to share unless you count coming to the realization that I am not a spiritual person. If they are spiritual people, they will have to discover that for themselves. I can't fake it.

    Last edited by Cathy A; 09/09/08 10:52 PM.
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    Quote
    For me, what I meant was not that I had to know that answers, but that if I gave an answer, then it had to ring true to me when I said it. I started out giving the answers I thought I was supposed to give, answers I thought my minister might want me to give.

    -Bingo, yes. Whatever you believe, it should be authentic, IMHO. smile

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    Questions about religion are just one small set of questions that cannot be answered at this time with our current state of knowledge.

    There is nothing wrong with not knowing the answers - having the question and knowing that there is room for a question is a good first step!


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    I stand by my suggestion too. I think to imply that the Bible has only minor cultural value with an example like the Chronicles of Narnia and stuff is a vast understantment.
    To share a depth of knowledge with our gifted kids it is important to realize certain huge things like the Bible are far more influential than that.
    Chronicles of Narnia was written in England. The U.S. culture, however, is influenced by the Bible in ways that are so far reaching: the Constitution was based on it (it was used as a working document in the constitutional convention, verses are all over our monuments, the list goes on forever. Many other religions hold a root with Biblical people or the Bible itself. Latter Day Saints include the Bible in their doctrine, Islam traces their fathers back to Abraham of Genesis just like Jews and Christians do.
    For a gifted child who thinks about what he's taught at school and at home on very deep levels and will have a lifetime of doing so, I firmly believe a thorough knowledge of the Bible... the most influential book of all time is priceless.

    One interesting thought too though is that most religions/belief systems that do regard the Bible as their authority share that fact with others (call that witnessing/evengelism or whatever) because the Bible itself tells them to. It is a practice of their faith that they concider to be a loving gesture. I don't see anything wrong with being tolerant of that too.

    It is great that all can talk freely on both sides. I respect everyone here for discussin this so openly and honestly without getting nasty or rude. It is a great freedom in this country to be able to do so! Very helpful to because our children, especially the gifted ones :-) wrestle with this stuff a lot! What's a mom to do if we can't get on here and talk it out!

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    Quote
    One interesting thought too though is that most religions/belief systems that do regard the Bible as their authority share that fact with others (call that witnessing/evengelism or whatever) because the Bible itself tells them to. It is a practice of their faith that they concider to be a loving gesture. I don't see anything wrong with being tolerant of that too.

    While I respect your point, I think you'll find the general consensus is that the community of posters here are not here to be evangelized too. I'm sure there are wonderful and engaging forums where that is respected and appreciated.

    When one persists in witnessing to another who has expressed that it is not their desire to be accepting of it, it ceases to be a loving gesture and indeed beomes a force of one's will and indeed, I could assert one is then placing one's will above God's will. smile

    You are indeed a lovely person, I enjoy your posts and look forward to your contributions to this community. Respecting the spiritual/lack there of(Love ya Cathy wink) diversity of this community, I'd like to ask you to share your self and experiences without evangelizing. We're all pretty great adults who are capable of finding our own way. smile

    Dissenting opinions welcome:

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    Originally Posted by incogneato
    Quote
    One interesting thought too though is that most religions/belief systems that do regard the Bible as their authority share that fact with others (call that witnessing/evengelism or whatever) because the Bible itself tells them to. It is a practice of their faith that they concider to be a loving gesture. I don't see anything wrong with being tolerant of that too.

    While I respect your point, I think you'll find the general consensus is that the community of posters here are not here to be evangelized too. I'm sure there are wonderful and engaging forums where that is respected and appreciated.

    When one persists in witnessing to another who has expressed that it is not their desire to be accepting of it, it ceases to be a loving gesture and indeed beomes a force of one's will and indeed, I could assert one is then placing one's will above God's will. smile

    You are indeed a lovely person, I enjoy your posts and look forward to your contributions to this community. Respecting the spiritual/lack there of(Love ya Cathy wink) diversity of this community, I'd like to ask you to share your self and experiences without evangelizing. We're all pretty great adults who are capable of finding our own way. smile

    Dissenting opinions welcome:

    I could very well be the most opinionated evangelical on this board, but I have to say I agree 100% with your post. We can discuss methods of sharing beliefs without discussing what we believe, and why. PM's are always available to discuss things in more depth. Thank you for summing up this discussion very well!

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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    For myself, I don't really have a spiritual journey to share unless you count coming to the realization that I am not a spiritual person. If they are spiritual people, they will have to discover that for themselves. I can't fake it.

    Me too. I've always been non-spiritual, even as a kid when my parents took me to church. I just didn't get it. I prefer to let my kids determine the personal importance of these questions for themselves. I can't fake it and don't want to.

    Originally Posted by incogneato
    While I respect your point, I think you'll find the general consensus is that the community of posters here are not here to be evangelized too. I'm sure there are wonderful and engaging forums where that is respected and appreciated.

    When one persists in witnessing to another who has expressed that it is not their desire to be accepting of it, it ceases to be a loving gesture and indeed beomes a force of one's will and indeed, I could assert one is then placing one's will above God's will.

    You are indeed a lovely person, I enjoy your posts and look forward to your contributions to this community. Respecting the spiritual/lack there of(Love ya Cathy ) diversity of this community, I'd like to ask you to share your self and experiences without evangelizing. We're all pretty great adults who are capable of finding our own way.

    Dissenting opinions welcome:

    I agree. Thanks for saying this so well.

    Val

    Last edited by Val; 09/10/08 04:26 PM. Reason: Hit Submit when I should have hit Preview
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    Originally Posted by incogneato
    Quote
    One interesting thought too though is that most religions/belief systems that do regard the Bible as their authority share that fact with others (call that witnessing/evengelism or whatever) because the Bible itself tells them to. It is a practice of their faith that they concider to be a loving gesture. I don't see anything wrong with being tolerant of that too.

    While I respect your point, I think you'll find the general consensus is that the community of posters here are not here to be evangelized too. I'm sure there are wonderful and engaging forums where that is respected and appreciated.

    When one persists in witnessing to another who has expressed that it is not their desire to be accepting of it, it ceases to be a loving gesture and indeed beomes a force of one's will and indeed, I could assert one is then placing one's will above God's will. smile

    You are indeed a lovely person, I enjoy your posts and look forward to your contributions to this community. Respecting the spiritual/lack there of(Love ya Cathy wink) diversity of this community, I'd like to ask you to share your self and experiences without evangelizing. We're all pretty great adults who are capable of finding our own way. smile

    Dissenting opinions welcome:


    Well, I do think there is a slight flaw in assuming that God's will changes based on what a human wants or doesn't want. They can choose what they want it doesn't mean that God will now want that for them as well.
    That said. Your point has some validity to it, yet seems quite unneccessary. I don't think anyone is forcefully willing anything on anyone. Let's remember the original question:

    Originally Posted by st pauli girl
    Hi - I need a little help. I looked at DS4's preschool newsletter a bit late to find that they would be discussing God and prayer today in class. (He's at a preschool in a church, but it's designed as a not-really-very-religious preschool, so last year we didn't get into this very much at all.) Anyway, I scrambled to give him a sense of what I thought about god, and I found myself talking about The Force from Star Wars. Yikes. So, I am looking for some good books that are sort of intro to religion or just general spiritual or be kind to others sort of stuff. Anything's got to be better than a discussion of Obi Wan Kenobe...Anyone? (On the way in to class, DS said, "I bet Mrs. Teacher knows more about God than you do." I replied that I was sure she knew more about how to teach 4 yos about it, and I only told him a little bit about what I know. But i was laughing on the inside at his snide remark!)

    As a background, I was raised very Catholic and got turned off my all churches in my teens and haven't gone back. DH was raised without any strong religion. DS4 has not ever attended a mass or anything (though he's been inside a few churches to check out the architecture.)

    I apologize if this isn't related to gifted kids, but I'm thinking it sort of is, because he understands things a bit earlier, and he usually wants the facts about stuff, so this is tricksy. Thanks!

    Those of us that answered believed that it DID indeed pertain to gifted kids because of all that they go through early on.

    This question started a lot of input of different resources, study ideas, how to discuss with a young one, etc. All contributers gave something they think is valuable and has probably helped them. So, they wanted to share. That is all whitnessing is.
    Do you see what I'm saying? It is simply sharing a resource. Whether it be eternal life through Christ or an earthly materialist religion that Jane Doe has chosen... if you share about it you are whitnessing.

    So, for us to all be kind and tolerant to everyone here about every book that was offered up, every class, every religion, every view, every whitness, and then to single out someone that suggested the Bible -because of it's huge effect on the world, the fact that the kid mentioned will be greatly exposed to it, that a knowledge base from mom would be helpful, and it is something they've found valuable- is, frankly intolerant, and, okay.... I'll say it... rude.

    I'm sorry. I'm not really offended because this is so common in our culture. I hope I don't sound upset because I really am not... and I know you guys mean the best for each other... but it had to be said. I think calling what you all do "advice" and then saying that talking about the Bible is forcing ones will on others is quite a double standard. I know no one realized that... I'm not blaming anyone... I just think we should all be aware.
    To suggest that someone with THAT advice specifically should go talk about it somewhere else is intollerant. Not to mention no one here ever said they didn't like the idea of reading the Bible to get some ideas on spirituality and really didn't want to hear that idea. So I don't think that's really applicable either.

    Obviously each of us here feels that our advice/idea was good or we wouldn't have shared. I think we can all enjoy ALL of the other comments still. Seems pretty simple to me. Should be a non-issue. We all simple answered the question how we saw best. I think that's all St. Paulie Girl wanted. (and it's all our respective gods or selves probably wanted too :-)

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