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    #250071 - 10/30/22 06:41 AM 2e or Misbehaving Because of Other Reasons?
    Skittles4 Offline
    New Member

    Registered: 05/14/22
    Posts: 1
    Hello. My DS (6) summer birthday has qualified for gifted services in our district. Barely made the cut off.

    Math 99
    Reading 87

    Cogat Scores:
    Verbal 97
    Quantitative 99
    Non-Verbal 84 (misbehaving during this section)
    Composite 98

    NNAT: 94

    He has always seemed rather advanced since I can remember but has behavior problems at school. Mostly, having to be told to follow directions more than once. Interrupting while talking. Not being able to sit still during semi-unstructured time such as listening to a story. But he can give a full summary about the story. Able to sit for long times during activities he enjoys such as “creating books” and drawing or reading books he find interesting. Seems to not be paying attention, wondering eyes when talking to him, touching EVERYTHING while in the store.

    I noticed at home he also has trouble following directions the first time. For example, I have to remind him almost daily not to run up the stairs and he will do it again 30 minutes later. When redirected, he says “oops oh right, I forgot.” Or when getting ready for bed I’ll ask him to get dressed but he is distracted by telling me a story and he’s not dressed when I return. Respectfully says he forgot and then corrects behaviors.

    On the non-verbal section of the Cogat which was given on the third day his teacher called to say that he had been disruptive that day. Upset about not being able to doodle in the book and being defiant. I thought he would certainly bomb the non-verbal section after hearing this.

    My question is, I’ve always thought there may be some adhd traits going on but I figured the teachers would bring it up. They haven’t. Simply saying he can’t keep still and needs multiple directions but is somehow able to test well and complete assignments accurately and fast. Fast learner and only need a few repetitions before mastery even while misbehaving. Creates no ways of solving problems. He seems bored when it’s too easy so he’s off task. But QUICKLY shuts down when it’s too challenging before even trying.

    For those who have been identified as 2e, did you see similar behaviors in your little one? I am trying to understand if what I am seeing is that of a gifted child or potentially twice exceptional with adhd. I know that giftedness and adhd can both exist but I can’t quite figure out if it’s typical behavior or if he’s struggling with behavior problems from a lack of structure or he’s wired that way. His teacher requested an unofficial behavior plan. He’s also newly 6 (younger one in his class) and a quick Google search says he’s too young to be accurately diagnosed with ADHD?

    Sorry for the ramble. I wanted to provide as much detail as possible to get your input. What do you all think?

    #250137 - 01/13/23 07:45 PM Re: 2e or Misbehaving Because of Other Reasons? [Re: Skittles4]
    Portia Offline

    Registered: 03/17/13
    Posts: 1808
    Hello Skittles,
    Sometimes when you are new, it takes a while for the posting to post. Then when it does, it is an older post and doesn't show up in new, so people miss it. Sorry it has taken this long to get a response.

    When a child exhibits behavior, a need is unmet. This can be intellectual, emotional, physical, etc. Determining the need is a real challenge. Things to look for are triggers which set off the unwelcome behavior. I usually recommend tracking in a notebook for a few weeks to help find patterns. When you journal, track the undesirable behavior AND the desirable behavior to find triggers. Record the time of day, what stimuli is present (smells, sounds, light, etc), what happened immediately before the behavior, how long it lasted, and what happened when to help end the behavior. Sometimes the triggers are odd things like smells or imbalanced meals or not enough exercise in a given day - just things that are not necessarily obvious unless you are tracking.

    I am not a test score expert, just a parent. The scores above look relatively even to me, which does not support an asynchronous profile. The one that has a high difference also has notes of behavior. Again, I am uncertain of the standard deviation for these tests and will wait for someone more experienced than I to address. The difference in the Iowa test categories might hint at something, but would likely need additional testing to really tell.

    I will say that shutting down if too challenging behavior needs to be addressed. I usually recommend creating a safe time period to do activities that have an uncertain outcome. This way, things can go in an unpredictable manner, BUT not be considered a "failure". Experiments or projects can sometimes be great activities for this type of learning. Learning how to not always be right is an important skill to master and it is better to master it at a younger age than in college or grad school.

    Some children are movers and process information by literally moving. Being forced to sit for long periods of time is extremely difficult. Proper amounts of exercise is critical for this type of child. Again, journaling will provide the best insight.


    #250141 - 01/14/23 05:03 PM Re: 2e or Misbehaving Because of Other Reasons? [Re: Skittles4]
    aeh Offline

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3996
    Welcome, Skittles!

    Based on the little bit of data presented, it is, of course, not possible to say absolutely how to attribute the behaviors you've described, but the more important question is what to do about them, and for that there is more of an evidence-basis. The kind of dysregulated behaviors listed all speak to growth needs in executive functions--which is, on some level, developmentally expected for a very little person. They are also the key lagging skills in neuroatypicalities like ADHD, but we don't need a label to address skills deficits. Regardless of the etiology, executive functions can be taught/improved. The teacher's suggestion of an informal behavior plan is a reasonable strategy for scaffolding the development of executive functions in a way that fits the setting. Portia's excellent suggestions for simultaneously observing patterns of behavior and providing movement and sensory opportunities are a complementary strategy that adapts the setting to the child.

    In terms of the scores, as Portia notes, they are relatively even--and the one somewhat different score both has clinical notes on reduced reliability/validity, and has an analog (NNAT) that is more in keeping with the rest of the profile, suggesting that the difference should not carry too much weight.

    A good practical resource for understanding executive functions and how to develop/scaffold them is the works of Peg Dawson:

    Here's her classic handbook on children:
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...


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