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    #250060 - 10/24/22 05:30 PM Autism/ADHD significantly lower FSIQ?
    JBD Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/19/16
    Posts: 46
    First let me say that I am not a parent who cares that much about the numbers. I'm actually asking more on behalf of DS10 who has been wondering.

    DS10 has had two different IQ tests --the wppsi at 4 and the wisc at 9, both as part of a general psychological examination for autism/adhd assessment. Both times his FSIQ was at 112. He was unaware at 9 that he was taking anything resembling IQ test.

    The main reason it's come up is that DD11 just took the WISC as part of an application to a gifted school, with a dedicated psychometrist, and has an fsiq of 135. DS10 is also interested in applying but I've told him his scores don't meet the cutoff, and he (as he can get obsessed over things) keeps wondering how much higher his score would be if he had known that he was taking an IQ test, and if it was with someone who was skilled at giving the test. I've acknowledged that it probably could be higher, and that his 2e status might have also lowered the fsiq a bit, but that it probably wouldn't be significantly higher (I've also informed him that there's a 24-month wait period anyway). But I do want to make sure I'm not just blowing smoke up his butt! If in a year he's still interested in applying to that school, I might decide to let him take the wisc again, but it is $400 out of pocket so...

    DS5 is probably also going to soon be taking the wppsi as part of an autism evaluation so it's gonna start the questions up again. He's undoubtedly gifted but his socio-emotional age is apparently at 22months, so I'm not sure he'll even sit still for a test! But DS10 is basically asking a lot of questions i can't answer, including how DS5 is likely to perform if he can't even pay attention

    #250061 - 10/24/22 08:03 PM Re: Autism/ADHD significantly lower FSIQ? [Re: JBD]
    aeh Offline

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3992
    DS10 is asking very reasonable, thoughtful questions. It is, of course, impossible to absolutely answer his question about how he would have performed differently if he had been aware it was an IQ test, but I should point out that most examiners do not introduce the WISC to children as an IQ test. ("Learning style," "learning ability," and "helps us understand how you learn" are all phrases frequently used.) Also, (and part of the reason why this is the case) it is quite possible that he would have posted poorer performance with that awareness, depending on what role performance anxiety plays in his life.

    To the question of examiner skill, naturally it's difficult to speculate on that too. So unfortunately, his specific questions don't have firm answers.

    But there are some general comments I can make about 2e GT/ASD kiddos: many of them become more conventionally testable as they mature, with performance, in my experience, rising sometimes all the way through the end of high school (despite regression to the mean). Perhaps one way to discuss this with your DS is by reflecting that norms are based on the general population--which is, by definition, neurotypical. So if one happens to be twice neuroatypical, it should not be too surprising if standardized scores have a harder time fitting one's profile of strengths. (This is a bit like how using norms developed on English monolinguals to assess English learners introduces confounds that tend to underestimate their abilities even in supposedly nonlanguage domains.) ASD learners may become more conventionally testable as they mature because they learn more of the expectations of neurotypicals.

    And on little DS's upcoming testing: that is a totally valid caution regarding normative performance. Relevant to both DSs' performances is the reminder that, after all, test results are only one sample in time of a subset of an individual's skills, not some sort of fixed absolute number. For the moment, it's not as important whether little DS's scores are representative of his optimal or "true" abilities, as that they reflect (more-or-less) his current levels of function. The purpose of the evaluation is to assess with respect to autism. Assessment of intelligence is secondary at this moment, and typically more to rule out cognitive impairments.
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...


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