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    #249769 - 05/21/22 12:49 AM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    Klangedin Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/24/13
    Posts: 43
    Executive functions is the amount of decisions you can make.. a low score with executive flexibility means you can only make a few choices when you work or other before your decision-making fades away.. It has nothing to do with "doing" your decisions but all to do with how many decisions you can make before you run out of stamina.. What happens is that if your decision doesn't lead to a good behavior you don't have the capacity to change that behavior so much!

    I understand through Barkleys executive model that people who aren't executively strong sometimes becomes perseverant which means they continue with a behavior that doesn't work. This is not good as you can imagine and it can make you tread water for long periods of time before you find the right track.. I've been treading water for a long time and is probably the reason why I take shortcuts, because small errors are to executively demanding to change in comparison to the reward!

    The most important thing to remember if you are executively challenged while highly intelligent is that some things are replenesive while some things drain and when things are to executively demanding I dont dare to pursue that "topic" because working with change becomes extra hard.. That's why I have a lot of personal interests and almost no "career" success.. Probably because making decisions is such a large part of working that my ability to do so isn't good enough to keep the tempo!

    Edited by Klangedin (05/21/22 12:52 AM)

    #249832 - 06/27/22 03:31 AM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    Jonnywalte5 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/13/22
    Posts: 3

    #249833 - 06/27/22 03:33 AM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    Jonnywalte5 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/13/22
    Posts: 3

    #249909 - 08/02/22 05:12 AM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    Klangedin Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/24/13
    Posts: 43
    Some more reflections on being executively dysfunctioned..

    I recently learned one of the problems I have with executive functions. From my own studies I've shown that I have an excellent spatial working memory and that in turn means I can handle "finding my way around" very well.

    Working memory is sometimes used as a part of executive functions but I discovered that it's actually "updating" that is executive. The updating is what allows you to shift the information in your working memory to something new, like a new topic or action.

    The estimates done on my executive functions are extremely poor but my logic seems unharmed. What I found out today due to self reflections is that I tend to answer questions with the wrong mindset.

    The scenario is that they are asking about how I can do laundry and other housework but my mind is set on something I was remembering.

    My biggest strength in IQ was similarities, basically that's the ability to find commons between different subjects and when I answer questions asked by the healthcare they think I switch topic after each subject but I don't. I'm keeping in mind every question and use my similarities logic to make an answer for all three "different subjects" at once.

    It seems I've been miss judged a lot because of this. I was recently in contact with a doctor who didn't realize this. She wasn't a specialist in psychiatry and she admitted me into hospital for symptoms that she thought I had but after the psychiatrist had spoken to me he realized that I have a very uncommon pattern that she couldn't discern.

    #249910 - 08/02/22 05:38 AM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    Klangedin Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/24/13
    Posts: 43
    Another "funny" thing that has happened today is that when I was shopping a girl showed interest but I was stuck on my mission to get my medicine the I just walked past her without giving any notice.

    Now that I'm home I think of all the things I've ignored one my mission and some of it really hurts. Like the girl for example, it's like my mind remembers where she was, what she looked like and what she wanted but I was so set on doing my thing that I walked right by!

    How is it supposed to make sense all of this? My rigidity has caused me so much pain and suffering simply because I see the opportunity but I don't act on it. I cause so much suffering for people because they don't understand how to approach me and I don't want to go around unhinged stepping on peoples toes.

    I've been active in "daily activities" for a long time and they haven't been able to find me at all. I'm like a rock that never changes, but I've continued to learn, each pain has meant something different and each time I go back their something happens and I get hurt.

    I've solved this through thinking that I can't have people in my life. People ALWAYS fail to meet me where I'm at and I've had the most skilled people in psychiatry trying to help me.

    It's odd, even as I write I can't adapt to pain. I feel that my emotions tries to say "If you write this nobody will truly understand how you feel because you know it isn't write, this is impulsive writing/expression". I feel like it's impossible and I've seen so many psychiatrists that all give me something new that I just think about and still nothing changes.

    I don't know? Is this a common experience for people?

    #249911 - 08/02/22 09:35 AM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    aeh Offline

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3996
    Glad you added a new post to this thread...I remembered that someone had asked me a question a while back, but didn't get a chance to answer it at the time, and then couldn't find the question!

    Taking into consideration a number of things you've shared, it sounds like the critical executive function that impacts your daily life may be the one we call shift or cognitive flexibility (switching, on the assessment you completed). This can result in or combine with low processing speed to generate the "slow but accurate" presentation you describe, as well as the single-minded focus that sometimes causes you to respond to the unexpected poorly, late, or not at all. I find that it can be helpful

    1. to be patient with yourself. Extend some grace to yourself when you realize after the fact that you've arrowed past something that you wish you had responded to. And then try to think if there's a more planful avenue still open to you to go back and offer an appropriate response. Sometimes there will be, and other times there won't. That's okay. In the second case, look for any small skill that you might be able to learn from it for a future similar situation, such as a short, civil comment you might be able to make, either internally to yourself, or aloud to the other person, to communicate that you would love to respond further, but after you finish this task. To do this, it helps to

    2. prepare a menu of standard, pleasant responses to situations that arise repeatedly. You note that you don't have difficulty with things you already know; it's novelty that throws off your cognitive flexibility. So, when you encouter a new situation, learn what you can about appropriate responses for it, and practice them (preferably with a friend or therapist) until they don't feel new anymore. Quite a number of mental health professionals can help you generally with what they'll recognize as social skills training/coaching, but for more tailored practice, you'll want to detail the kinds of situations that affect you the most, so your practice partner can work with you on those.

    3. Managing your environment also helps, such as by learning some verbal stalling tactics, to give yourself more time to process incoming information and shift your thinking. Some people use phrases such as, "give me a moment," "explain that again," "so you're saying...[and repeat or restate what they just said], or even take the direct approach with, "let's slow this down."

    Both cognition and executive function are important to daily life needs. One way to think about it is that EF is the collection of skills that allow efficient, on-demand access to your other skills (including cognition). And yes, just as most have patterns of strengths and weaknesses among cognitive skills, one can have strengths and weaknesses among the EFs, such as good planning but weak flexibility. It's also important to note that we've made some artificial and arbitrary distinctions between executive and cognitive skills. The reality is almost certainly that they are intertwined (and, well, they're all in your brain!).

    All formal measures are attempts to access incompletely understood and interconnected skills in a complex system. IOW, none of them are ultimate descriptors of you or your abilities. That being said, the FSIQ does appear to be the most robust predictor of academic function for most people--but you are not most people. EF is probably a better predictor of general life function, since it affects all dimensions, but it's also a set of skills that can be learned and accommodated. Which is to say, it's all of the above. The GAI is a purer measure of reasoning, but the FSIQ includes estimates of the impact of some EF skills (in the form of the CPI). One might say that, when your EF vulnerabilities are well-accommodated or remediated, you are capable of functioning at the level of your GAI, but when they are not, your performance is likely to fall somewhere between your CPI and your GAI.

    This should not be discouraging, btw, since it simply describes one variation of the state of every finite, imperfect human, and underlines our need for each other, and to seek completion in community.
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...

    #249919 - 08/05/22 09:34 AM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    Klangedin Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/24/13
    Posts: 43
    I've been in contact with the psychiatry in this town and I'm to see a psychologist on Monday next week. I'm sure he has some input, I've written to him about my issues and now we are to meet.

    Something I've picked up and that I'm afraid of is a theory of connection and why people with high "g" don't function with regular people.

    I know that I have a disease that complicates things but the theory suggests two things. One is that people who aren't within 20 IQ points won't be able to connect in a meaningful way.
    I dont know if this is true but I have scores in the 140's and I suppose that my IQ would be higher then "high average" if I weren't sick.

    All my friends before the disease are academics that play instruments and has by now started families, I haven't but that's a long story.
    Somewhere I want to say that my inability to connect with people is due to me being "too" intelligent. I have a friend who is also intelligent and we click.

    Problem is that I feel so odd, even with people who work with mental health. Im very hard on myself for my failures with people I meet and I can't help but remembering my past social failures. Even if someone just looks at me I feel like it's an opportunity but you never see that people approach each other where I live. Im socially isolated and can't find a way forward. Everyone is set with their friends and won't let anyone in. I feel abandoned because my mother moved to a different city 100 miles away.

    Meeting with this psychologist will be a good time to get a sense of where I'm at now. I suppose things could be worse mentally but I have to rely on my medications to get me through the day.

    I'm helpless and I need to abandon me belief of being intelligent.

    #249943 - 08/09/22 12:20 PM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    Klangedin Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/24/13
    Posts: 43
    I've made some progress with my thoughts, or rather I've connected some dots.

    Something I've had trouble with is feeling that abiding by social rules. I'm always walking around with a troubled mind about this and that and I carry fantasies about people I have no real connection with.

    It's weird because I spent a lot of time in isolation/solitude and I've been trying to break that feeling and get a hold of my life again.

    I've come to the conclusion that a measure of intelligence doesn't have much value to it and that I'd be better of focusing on the life that's in front of me. I'm seeing a psychologist about it and I've been talking about how I feel entrenched by psychiatry and testing at large.

    Know my mental aptitude and have IQ and personality theory as a hobby has led me to become criticizing and negative towards others, so it hasn't been a good thing to learn this type of thing. It's mostly arrogance in my estimation and that maintaining the image of being and intellectual has hampered me to believe that nothing besides intellectual efforts will be worth my time.

    I've spent time developing people skills and trying to learn how to be with people at all. Something I find a bit hard to do. I know that if I spend to much time with my own thoughts I become estranged from dealing with people and I really need to have normal balanced people in my life and I also need to stop thinking about the limitations of the options in front of me.

    Something about feeling intellectually superior makes me not want to chose and that isn't good. I´m always scanning for understanding and I make interpretations in the moment that after a few hours becomes obvious that the problem wasn't that intellectual at all. It was something simple that I build into an adventure.

    Today I spent time with my grandma and she's a aged widow who has a lot of what I'm searching for. She was once like me, inquisitive and abstract and she told me that she was the same way when she was my age. She is someone that I connect with on a "wisdom" level.

    This train of thought came to be because I was starting to wonder if I was smart enough already. I've been starting to look at IQ tests again and I've been writing a lot about my topics of interest. I feel it may have been a mistake, that I somewhere discarded some of my social safety.

    This is part of my personal diary :P.

    The conclusion of this train of thought is that once again I've discarded what I can get in search for a new opportunities. There has been some initiative that I should start working but I'm afraid that my intellectualism will cause trouble with the process, I feel like I'm going into work with all the knowledge already because I'm so smart.

    So I wonder if I will ever be suited for a regular job "in my mind" because I've spent so much time developing the "smart kid aura".

    I have been trying to work on my emotional self...

    #249959 - 08/17/22 12:26 PM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    giftedamateur Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 12/19/21
    Posts: 33
    Since your old friends are academics, I wonder if you could spend some time with them and try to connect with friends of friends.

    I'm curious to see how it works out for you, because I'm afraid I will be in exactly the same situation 10 years from now. I find it very hard to connect with people who aren't very intelligent in a meaningful way. I realize that I bottle up all of my substantial thoughts or things I find interesting to read because I know most people will not get it. And then I feel a sense of rejection when I don't get any enthusiasm from their side. This can kill interest for me in a way that little else does.

    Work is a bit different from day to day life. Professionally, if you come across as smart and capable right out the gate, people will be willing to hire you. After all, it is good for their bottom line. There are horror stories of envious coworkers but I don't think that's the norm, unless they feel intimidated by your presence or see you as a threat to their source of income.

    #250038 - 10/03/22 08:58 AM Re: Understanding testing! [Re: Klangedin]
    Klangedin Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 10/24/13
    Posts: 43
    I've received some feedback from the psychologist and it's been an interesting development for me.

    My self-esteem has improved and before I lacked the feeling of being competent or intelligent in a true manner. It's about feeling that you have ability even if you have measures that indicates otherwise!

    What I've been trying to do is to map out my experience and pinpoint what type of thinking I'm using at times when things become "heavy" or anxious.

    The ideal would be that because I'm so "intelligent" I should be able to walk through life with easy but that certainly isn't the case!

    I have a want that I should be in control or "understand" very quickly and to be able act efficiently on stuff but I don't.

    I'm 34 now and the world deems performance as a very valuable attribute and I'm not adding anything to the world surplus!

    When I look at EF I don't see multiple skills that a trainable, I see skills set in stone that influences how efficiently you manage your behavior in response to stimuli. It's complicated because behavior includes intelligence (knowledge and reasoning) which allows for awareness of situations and allows you to adapt!

    An interesting way of looking at the EF construct is that it represents the behavior range you have. Each measure of EF from the d-kefs has an amount of "attempts" which would mean that people with more efficient EF should have more behaviors at the beckon call?

    Viewing a person from that perspective and looking at "high intelligence" and "low EF" would mean that someone have few behaviors but very logical ones!

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