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    #249358 - 11/14/21 02:46 PM Re: Survey says? Preparing for HS SSA [Re: aquinas]
    aeh Online   content
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3918
    That does sound promising!

    And to sunnyday's experiences, I'd agree that there are pluses to actual instructors versus parental winging! But other than not realizing that using a curriculum written in UK English would cause DC to miss placing into precalc in grade nine because a number of terms were different (surd vs radical, anyone?), I think DC found our low-key homeschooling left very few holes. I will say that I do wish I'd given this particular, quite math-y DC the problem-solving depth of AOPS (although the Singapore secondary syllabus was pretty strong in this area too).

    And yeah, waiting to see some study skills over here, too, at least in math!

    Me: "How many hours are you spending on your DE calc II class?"
    DC: "One, or two when there's an exam."
    Me: "Two hours a day?"
    DC: "No, a week."

    DC has not done a single problem set all semester, nor did we ever acquire the textbook. Average: 100+
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    #249359 - 11/14/21 06:03 PM Re: Survey says? Preparing for HS SSA [Re: aquinas]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2496
    To be clear in case Iíve caused confusion: the math we cover already is AOPS curriculum + extras supplemented based on DSí strengths and interests. I donít expect there will be any gaps from home instruction vs paid-instructor-led if that is the route we choose next year.

    But then, weíve homeschooled and co-schooled for pretty much all of DSí young life, so teaching has become a de facto second job for me!

    Downstream? TBD!

    (And Singapore is lovely. I donít have experience with their secondary curriculum, but DS enjoyed some of their primary program, and I would happily use it again.)
    _________________________
    What is to give light must endure burning.

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    #249360 - 11/14/21 06:36 PM Re: Survey says? Preparing for HS SSA [Re: aquinas]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2496
    Originally Posted By: aeh
    DC has not done a single problem set all semester, nor did we ever acquire the textbook. Average: 100+


    No textbook = awesome. That would go into a bacon or steak fund here. 😂

    Youíre much gentler than I am, aeh. I mandate effortful time on task. If he can show mastery with the hardest few problems, I give him something heíll have to grapple with.

    General musings for a general audienceÖ

    The other day, DS was a bit unsure of himself with an extra proof I made up. It prompted a discussion about striving and a clarification that he shouldnít implicitly know how to do it, that I expect failure initially, and that itís part of the process. Then we talked about how researchers tackle novel problems, entrepreneurs create new markets, and explorers discover new worlds. Creation is bold and intimidating.

    We broached anxiety around perfectionism, and the fact that itís okay not to know the answer immediately. He tried several approaches and failed before figuring it out.

    This is why I provide extra content at home. Regardless of what he receives as instruction in school, I want him to learn to be comfortable outside his comfort zone, and thatís only going to happen if he sees what heís capable of. I donít want university or grad school to be the first time he encounters a challenge.

    Math happens to be our particular vehicle for this because we both have strength and interest in this area. But the concept generalizes across subjects.
    _________________________
    What is to give light must endure burning.

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    #249361 - 11/14/21 07:01 PM Re: Survey says? Preparing for HS SSA [Re: aquinas]
    aeh Online   content
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3918
    I am pretty sure that if I float the idea of the unspent textbook funds being reallocated to bacon or steak there will be high levels of approval from DC!

    And fortunately, DC does have an AP lit class to put -some- effort into. I'm actually quite proud of DC for voluntarily choosing AP lit for this year, since the way last year shook out, DC was entering this year already with sufficient English (and math, science and history!) credits for graduation, but decided that AP lit would be more educationally beneficial than an easy elective.

    And as for additional challenge in math--I could point DC in a direction, but personally I'm a bit rusty on anything any higher level at this point, and would have to re-learn it myself. It's been a long time since differential equations!

    And for sure, no need for uni or post-grad to be the first time our kids experience their ZPD! BTDT.
    _________________________
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    #249362 - 11/14/21 07:51 PM Re: Survey says? Preparing for HS SSA [Re: aquinas]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2496
    Originally Posted By: aeh
    I am pretty sure that if I float the idea of the unspent textbook funds being reallocated to bacon or steak there will be high levels of approval from DC!


    As you know, Iím all about the incentives. 😉

    DS enjoys a little taster of wine or beer occasionally with dinner (1oz - nothing crazy). Last week, he was dragging his heels on doing homework, and I threatened to take away his wine and bearnaise with his steak if it wasnít done by the time dinner was on the table.

    DS: Not the bearnaise!

    Me: Oh yes.

    DS: Red or white?

    Me: Red.

    DS: Which one?

    Me: Syrah-Grenache. The one we had last week.

    DS: *Gets to work*

    If only schools could bribe our kiddos with their preferred currenciesÖmine is, fortunately, an easy mark as a meat-eating lush in training. 😂

    Also - thatís great news about AP lit - I love the initiative!!
    _________________________
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    #249382 - 11/20/21 09:39 AM Re: Survey says? Preparing for HS SSA [Re: aquinas]
    sunnyday Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/08/14
    Posts: 80
    Originally Posted By: aquinas
    Originally Posted By: sunnyday
    In fact I would almost go so far as to say that, if you are "school shopping," that a school that doesn't offer Algebra for eighth graders at all, might not be as good a fit as it seems otherwise?


    This is Canada, land of the lowest-common-denominator in math education. Above-grade classwork is generally verboten, sadly, which is why I'm working on such a long lead time. Moreover, provincial math has been de-streamed for 9th grade this year, which is excellent from an access perspective, and perhaps actually supportive of SSA to help outliers.

    But yes, in principle - agreed.


    Ah, for some reason I was envisioning the kind of choice-rich environment they seem to have in urban American cities.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted By: sunnyday
    And I'll also add the caveat that this level of SSA is still not an opportunity, at least for my children, to learn study skills. My 9th grader (who has since accelerated once more and now in Precalculus) was just lamenting about this recently. He longs to know what it would be like to have to study, LOL.


    Gotcha. The EF piece drives an unabashed study skills hothousing program at home for us. If I can occupy DS' brain for 20 mins / day with math and have him progress one year for each the next two years in math in school, this box is checked.

    I suspect 20 minutes might be massively overshooting this. But what can I say? I'm an optimist.


    I'm personally much more invested in the development of soft skills than ticking academic boxes, and I find it much more challenging to facilitate, so let's be optimists together. The focus will come, I'm sure of it! But so far in my house we still have, "I have a test tomorrow, I guess I'll write down one formula on a card," "Are you sure you don't want to review? You have mentioned that logarithms are brand new to you and you've had a few challenges with them on the homework." "Eh." And this results in a 96%. Sigh. (With the other child, we have "I definitely understand the material. Wait, what do you mean I got a D? Um, maybe I will review the material briefly right before the retest. Grade is now revised to an A." Not sure if that's better or worse.)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted By: sunnday
    I'd advise that prior exposure to AOPS at the Alg or even pre-Alg level, and maybe also having actual live AOPS instructors (instead of a mom who winged it with lesson prep the day before, LOL), would have made it even more successful. Just a thought.


    Point well taken! smile

    I have a tendency to meld a hodgepodge of content for DS for math - he needs some basic skills and automaticity, some problem solving, some proofs, and some interdisciplinary application.

    Re: lateral stretches - yes! I have my eye on AOPS counting + number theory program this year if DS runs through the existing material faster than I'd expected, as well as a grade 11 physics text.

    For competitions + Olympiads - this has been a topic of discussion I've had in the DMs. DS is a slow, deep thinker who isn't overly motivated by the competitive angle of math or traditional outlets for mathy kids, like chess. Combined with his EF deficits, the format of competitions would actually (I suspect) be quite stressful for him. We tend to jump straight to the MOEMS / AMC problems in AOPS, and he can usually solve most of them in a few minutes. But there doesn't seem to be any intrinsic drive to do more of the same. *shrugs*

    What I've been doing with him, instead, is watering down some first year uni linear algebra (simple stuff like Euclidean vectors, inverses, determinants, systems of linear equations), stats, introducing some philosophy / logic concepts, with an aim to teaching him some econometrics and decision theory modelling. There's a lot of fun application to be had with those topics.

    He seems to like cryptography, so maybe some combinatorics next?

    Truthfully, I have no idea where he's going to land career-wise. Instead, I try to feed him fun little problems or concepts from several disciplines, and see how far he can take them logically on his own steam. Then, to the extent I can, I throw the ball further afield and connect the interdisciplinary dots.

    The common thread in everything is a hunger to find a generalizable solution and to automate the heck out of his process.


    Speaking of EF, I can see I am definitely not on the same footing that you are in terms of planning and executing, so I will absolutely defer, LOL. I similarly had all the plans for breadth and depth and application, all the hopes that my undergraduate math experiences would come together as a touchstone from which to give my son's math experiences context. But in practice, especially once middle school sucked away his energy for after-schooling and optional work...um, let's just say that, when I did tackle the role of instructor, review and relearning in tandem with my kiddo did not turn out to be the best way to guide him gently into the world of OMG WTF challenge problems. wink That said, I think it's fair to say your kiddo's math skills and experience of the greater world of math application will definitely continue to develop under your tutelage and in collaboration with the new school! Paid math teachers or not. smile Glad the new school seems like a good fit.


    Edited by sunnyday (11/21/21 07:18 PM)

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    #249383 - 11/20/21 12:54 PM Re: Survey says? Preparing for HS SSA [Re: aquinas]
    aeh Online   content
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3918
    I see that the bearnaise was more of a non-negotiable for him, and the wine was contingent on the details. Both as they should be. smile

    And I agree with both of you that academics per se are not as much the objective as they are the tool for learning soft skills. If conditions don't allow for learning EF through academics in the ZPD, like most school-age children do, then it's still possible to learn them through other activities. Though it is a bit aggravating for sure when school gets in the way of learning...


    Edited by aeh (11/21/21 04:40 PM)
    Edit Reason: typo
    _________________________
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    #249387 - 11/21/21 04:16 AM Re: Survey says? Preparing for HS SSA [Re: aquinas]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1682
    Have you looked at Olympiad school? Many kids use it as a supplemental education, to get accelerated material and they will work with you.

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