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    Joined: Jan 2020
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    HighIQ Offline OP
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    Is there something wrong with my old school district's gifted and talented program's means of identifying gifted and talented students when its students had to resort to cheating and toxicity to get the grades and accomplishments that they want? For instance, the valedictorian had to resort to help from other students to get higher grades on tests by asking them what will be the test questions and how to answer them and such, making her life a lot easier while also getting admission into Yale. I assume that she did this all the time throughout all her years at the high school. I would estimate her IQ to be in the 110-125 range, which is obviously not gifted.

    What is going on here? They use the CogAT and the Torrance tests of creative, and I didn't get in the program possibly due to low scores. I don't remember what happened, and I think it was because of the horrid teacher recommendation that I didn't get in.

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    I hope you find the help you need to be at peace.

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    HighIQ Offline OP
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    I don't need help from anyone but myself. Experience has shown me that people tend to betray others. No respect.

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    I'm going to respond to various components of your post, individually.

    1)
    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    Is there something wrong with my old school district's gifted and talented program's means of identifying gifted and talented students... They use the CogAT and the Torrance tests of creative... teacher recommendation...
    These are fairly common test instruments, however it is unknown what criteria was used, and with what frequency students were identified and added to any gifted programming. A teacher recommendation can be used in different ways, for example, to cast a wider net and gather in pupils who may not have received qualifying scores... or to identify and screen out pupils who would not be a good "fit" for the school's gifted program.

    2)
    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    valedictorian... admission into Yale
    - A valedictorian is typically the Senior who had the highest grades at the end of Junior year. If there is a tie, this may be resolved in a different manner at various schools. Valedictorians are sometimes known to "coast" once they have received their title/label.
    - According to recent US News College Rankings, Princeton is #1, Harvard #2, Columbia #3, MIT & Yale tied at #4.
    - While PolarisList does not specifically track feeder schools for Yale, it may be of interest to see whether your alma mater high school is a feeder for Harvard, Princeton, MIT.
    - Overall, there may be nothing unusual about a valedictorian receiving an offer to attend their State flagship and/or one or more top national colleges/universities.

    3)
    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    cheating
    ...
    I assume that she did this all the time throughout all her years at the high school.
    This is a strong allegation or accusation to make. Casting aspersions on someone's academic integrity by hint, rumor, and innuendo of cheating and/or plagiarism could backfire with counter-measures such as accusing you of libel, slander, or defamation. There are various degrees of "help from other students to get higher grades on tests by asking them what will be the test questions and how to answer them and such," some of which may be considered ethical and a sign of healthy relationships and teamwork, some of which may be considered a gray area, some of which may result in expulsion and/or charges. For example: attending and/or discussing a test-sponsored prep session is a positive and shares detailed questions and answers from previous versions of an achievement test (which have specifically been released for study purposes); by contrast, stealing a teacher's test answer key is verboten. Meanwhile, measures exist to counter common gray-area exchange of answers (such as creating multiple versions of tests).

    4)
    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    toxicity
    Whether your concerns about events you may have witnessed are just surfacing belatedly now that you are no longer in the potentially intimidating school situation... or whether you may be emulating others by engaging in a bit of a smear campaign which seemed to work for them, enhancing their power, influence, and status... or whether you are stuck and unable to move on... it is best for your sake if you are aware of the impact of your words on others you encounter and/or interact with. This story sums it up well:
    Originally Posted by Psychology Today
    Early in my career, I was collaborating with a senior colleague to write a research grant. As we discussed previous research, I was particularly critical of other researchers. My colleague, who was also an early mentor in other aspects of my life, brought an abrupt end to my comments. In a supportive but rather blunt way, he simply said, “There are two types of people, those who contribute and those who detract. You must learn that the best way to build your career and your life is through your own achievements, not by attacking the achievements of others. People will always remember what type of person you are, and they will trust or distrust you accordingly.”

    Seldom have I heard words that were truer or more genuinely wise. People who have only criticism to offer are soon forgotten—those who contribute in a constructive way become part of history.
    5)
    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    I would estimate her IQ to be in the 110-125 range
    To a casual observer, it would seem that one would not typically have access to data and information needed to reliably assess another's IQ. You've made several posts with conjecture on other's IQs. This may be an unhealthy obsession with others' lives. A few other members have previously suggested this, with differing degrees of sensitivity and bluntness. I have attempted to show that it is not realistic to beat your former classmates in every area of life as this sets up several goals with inherent conflicts to each other.

    6)
    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    110-125 range, which is obviously not gifted
    There is no one definitive answer as to giftedness. However, in some contexts, anything over the average 100 IQ may be considered gifted. Here are some examples of gifted IQ ranges:
    - Ruf, 5 levels of gifted - https://www.nypl.org/blog/2015/04/02/booktalking-5-levels-gifted (120 +)
    - Hoagies - IQ depends on the test instrument utilized - https://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm (124 +)

    7)
    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    I didn't get in the program...
    possibly due to low scores...
    I think it was because of the horrid teacher recommendation that I didn't get in
    As you've previously posted about attitude, that may suggest it was not test scores, but rather questions/issues as to "fit" with the program.

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    HighIQ Offline OP
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    The gifted and talented program was full of cheaters. I've even heard from one of my former classmates that most people in the top ten of my class were cheaters. I wish I went to a far better school.

    There was this one kid, whom I thought was intelligent, who found it easy to exploit online materials for answers to upcoming tests, and he didn't have the decency to not cheat. He ended up at Texas A&M.

    I feel that my claims about the valedictorian cheating are well founded. In 11th grade, I've seen her ask her classmates for the questions and answers on upcoming tests numerous at least twice for AP United States History and possibly others since she didn't have any decency. Yes, it was teamwork against me. All vs. me. No one wanted me to become the valedictorian.

    Beating my former classmates in everything would mean to me that I would have to be a lot more famous than them in a good way. Much like how Einstein has been the most popular genius for many years.

    I've been talking about how the valedictorian was a cheater to others for 3-4 years, but no one believes me because they think I'm a lunatic. Should I just give up on trying to convince people? I hope that she fails at life. Going to an Ivy League school doesn't mean jack sht in real life.

    Last edited by HighIQ; 03/17/21 09:35 PM.
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    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    The gifted and talented program was full of cheaters. I've even heard from one of my former classmates that most people in the top ten of my class were cheaters...
    There may be cheaters everywhere in life. What one knows and what one can prove may be two different things.

    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    I wish I went to a far better school.
    Better in what sense? More emphasis on ethics (aka decency not to cheat)? More enforcement of academic integrity?

    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    No one wanted me to become the valedictorian.
    Were you close... possibly salutatorian?

    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    Beating my former classmates in everything would mean to me that I would have to be a lot more famous than them in a good way. Much like how Einstein has been the most popular genius for many years.
    A few thoughts:
    - It is not healthy to set one's life goals in reference to unfriendly high school classmates.
    - It does not appear that Einstein had fame or fortune as his goals.
    - Did you know, Einstein was also a cheater...?
    - With the thousands of high schools graduating hundreds of pupils each year, it is unlikely that many will become as well known as Einstein.
    - There are many young people pursuing their own individual calling, careers, goals... and these may spark positive inspiration for finding one's own niche. For example, this list of Forbes 30 under 30 may be of interest: https://www.forbes.com/30-under-30/2021/

    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    I've been talking about how the valedictorian was a cheater to others for 3-4 years, but no one believes me... Should I just give up on trying to convince people?
    Not knowing the people involved, but drawing on life experience in general, I would suggest that people are not necessarily disbelieving you, but may rather be trying to drop the topic and encourage you to let it go. Yes, I think you should give up on trying to convince people. Not because it is untrue. But because focusing on other's shortcomings is negative and unhealthy. This was mentioned in the mentor story upthread. The possibility of making yourself vulnerable to charges of libel, slander, or defamation were also mentioned.

    Originally Posted by HighIQ
    I hope that she fails at life.
    While some former classmates may seem to be benefiting from ill-gotten gains, IMO you do NOT want to be generating this type of negative energy. It is important to find things you can be positive about.

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    HighIQ Offline OP
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    Einstein didn't cheat the way the valedictorian did. What did he do? I don't recall him ever asking others for answers on upcoming tests.

    It's fine to vent about my frustrations to strangers online, but I wouldn't do it in person. I would make a fool out of myself.

    I meant schools that are highly ranked nationally. Most of the kids who go to the Ivy League went to highly ranked high schools or have parents with college graduate degrees. Or are cheaters.

    I was salutatorian, and I still don't like having that title to this day. At least I didn't cheat like the rest of my class. I know for sure to never see that school again.

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    Life isn’t fair. Some people have a wealth of advantages and others are very disadvantaged.

    To be salutatorian in the circumstances of your childhood is a great achievement - you should be rightly proud of yourself.

    I have also experienced strong disappointment at just missing out on goals for which I had striven very hard, whilst I could see others had advantages which gave them the competitive edge. Then, I met my husband who had lived in a dairy shed and got up each morning at 3 a.m. (through rain, wind & freezing conditions) to milk cows to save for Uni (& fifteen other menial casual jobs through six years of Uni) because his parents opposed tertiary education and had refused to support him. I realised that, in comparison, his circumstances had been more disadvantaged than mine, so I stopped dwelling on the things I had missed out on. Professionally & personally we have both been quite successful and are now in good positions.

    I urge you to heed the wise advice given in previous posts - don’t waste time & energy on regrets. Seek out and make the most of new opportunities.

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    Other posters are being gentle with you, as I was in a previous post. I will do you a different kindness and be blunt.

    Unless you have a time machine and can go back and re-live your life to this point, you are wasting your energy. Get on with it.

    You are an adult. Your life is now your responsibility. If you spend your time complaining about others and shifting blame, you will soon look back with regret on your wasted life.

    If you truly want any of the things you've listed as "goals", that's the only way to get them.

    Good luck.



    What is to give light must endure burning.
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    HighIQ - while I stand by my previous advice to let it go and find positives to focus on, I also realize that sometimes it is easier to move on...
    - once a situation has been acknowledged,
    - a person feels understood (others "get it"),
    - a person knows they are not alone in their experience (others feel the angst, having faced similar circumstances).

    To that end, I found a few similar experiences online, posted over time:

    1) Cheated out of Salutatorian (a decade ago) -
    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100523113456AA84YUJ

    2) Philippines Val/Sal controversy (2015) -
    https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/681185/qc-valedictorian-tells-krisel-mallari-top-award-not-for-you

    3) Caught the valedictorian cheating (2013) -
    https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/i-caught-the-valedictorian-cheating-what-should-i-do/1506868
    (IMO, some the advice offered is not appropriate: I do not agree with confronting the cheater.)

    I'm hoping that these posts will also be a reminder to all (including parents, teachers, administrators, students seeking an advantage through cheating, and students providing an advantage to cheaters) that the behavior is unethical.

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