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    #2433 - 04/05/07 05:42 AM Re: Some Updates [Re: _KaT_]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Hi Kat,
    Who "were" you? I can't find your old posts on the link.

    But "whoever you are" (wink) -
    Congradulations on your son's identification. I hope the school program is a good fit for him. I would ask if they could give you a heads up on what kinds of scores the other kids in the program got. Even if they only share qualifing information with you, that tells you a lot because there tend to be a majority of kids clustered near the cutoff, because that the bigest population. Has there even ever been a kid in their program with IQ scores like your child. Is 10% within 10 points of your child? This will give you some indication of how much "coasting" you might be able to do.

    You've noticed that there are no standardised definitions of Highly Gifted, Profoundly, Exceptionally - but people do use the "standard deviation" designations as a kind of short hand.

    Truth be told, there isn't a standard definition of Gifted...for some it's about the child's achievements, for some it's about potential. I tend to think of it as a cluster of developmental differences that may (or may not) require special teaching and parenting techniques.

    I was wondering if you have applied to the Davidson Young Scholar Program...Good luck if you do.

    Love and More Love,
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #2452 - 04/11/07 12:09 PM Re: Some Updates [Re: Grinity]
    _KaT_ Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/16/07
    Posts: 29
    Loc: NeVada, USA
    Hi Trinity! <waves>

    My former username was isugari on the forums;

    Clark County's elgibility info is here: http://ccsd.net/schools/twitchell/staff/minnich/eligibility.htm . I guess based on that, our county here offers different levels of gifted programming services? ie, GATE, TAGS, & Highly Gifted Services.

    Their Highly Gifted Services state:

    The Highly Gifted Program is a K-12 program offered to eligible students with general intellectual abilities at or above 145 on the Stanford Binet Intelligence Scale administered by a licensed psychologist. The Highly Gifted Program offers instruction in an inclusive setting with individualized programs developed for each identified student. Differentiated activities are provided to the students during the school day and a variety of social and/or academic activities offered after school hours throughout the school year.

    So I guess the qualifying scores for their highly gifted services is at or above 145 on the SB. At the meeting with all the key folks (my son, his dad, my son's teacher, the GATE teacher, the school principal, and the county's Highly Gifted specialist), we were told out of about roughly 300,000 school kids in Clark County, they only have about 135 highly gifted identified.

    The Highly Gifted specialist drew out a bell curve sketch for us on paper and said that here on the middle 50% line is where the general school age population falls, then farther out, this is where the GATE teacher's kids fall, and my son, he falls out here... and she drew out a tiny speck on the end of the curve. Our particular specialist who will be our Highly Gifted coordinator handles the Northwest side of town and she has about 20 highly gifted kids, with my son being the youngest.

    My son will continue with 3rd grade reading, and will also get math acceleration. He started GATE classes this week too and seem to be enjoying that. They seemed to be a bit held back and reserved on grade skipping this early for my son and said it was something they can do later on when he's in 3rd or 4th grade. But I asked them, what about his grading then? His current report card and all the work he brings home is all at 1st grade level, which he's already well beyond, is he going to get graded too for the higher level subjects? The principal said they will work on devising a report card just for him, but it may take them time, but that definitely before end of this school year, they will test him to see where they will place him for certain subjects next year.

    Oh, and we'll be attending SENG workshops here in Vegas, where our coordinator will be a speaker. It should be fun, and will be my first real interaction, and my son's too, with like-minded kids and for me, parents.

    We'll be applying to the Davidson's Young Scholar Program, but since we only have the IQ test results and none of the achievement tests yet, I still need to gather his portfolio together. Probably will send it off next month smile

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    #2453 - 04/11/07 12:30 PM Re: Some Updates [Re: _KaT_]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Hi Kat,
    Wow - your son's school district certianly seems to have their act together for kids like your son. I like the volunteering suggestion, but other than that, I think you are probably safe to step back and let the school do their thing. Lucky you - you get to concentrate on "normal Mom" things - like guiding moral development, and sharing favorite bits of the culture. Stay close to him so that if things aren't working out at school, you'll be able to know if he's unhappy. I don't think grade skips will be nescessary if they are doing all they say they do on their blurb - in fact there was a little discussion on the young scholar list about trying to undo grade skips once children got into excellent fit school programs that were meeting their needs - the parents didn't want them to age out!

    Keep us posted and enjoy! We love to hear brags and cute stories.
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

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    #2458 - 04/11/07 02:17 PM Re: Some Updates [Re: Grinity]
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    I have school district envy. I wonder if that is Freudian?

    This year, this is how our district used their gifted education funds. They appointed one existing teacher per school to be the gifted services supervisor for the school.

    That sounds good right? Well consider the following...

    1) NONE of the teachers chosen had previous gifted education training.

    2) The only training they received this year was an afternoon in-service.

    3) They don't work with gifted children but with the teachers and at that they only advise on how to enrich the curricula if the teacher asks for assistance.

    4) This to me is the worst, gifted children are NOT identified and if by chance they are, they do not get services.

    So basically, we have wasted the money on untrained teachers who assist other teachers in enriching lessons for WHO-KNOWS-WHO?

    certainly not the neglected gifted kids....
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #2462 - 04/11/07 08:25 PM Re: Some Updates [Re: _KaT_]
    Texas Summer Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/01/06
    Posts: 216
    Loc: Texas
    Originally Posted By: _KaT_

    Their Highly Gifted Services state:

    The Highly Gifted Program is a K-12 program offered to eligible students with general intellectual abilities at or above 145 on the Stanford Binet Intelligence Scale administered by a licensed psychologist.


    Does the school administer the SB or are the parents responsible for the testing? I have been working to get an HG/PG elementary class in our district but have been told that the district has no way to identify the students. Apparently the tests that are currently used for GT identification have too low of a ceiling to identify HG/PG kids.

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    #2464 - 04/11/07 11:04 PM Re: Some Updates [Re: Texas Summer]
    willagayle Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/08/06
    Posts: 400
    Loc: Minnesota
    you know actually they have to use standardized tests yearly == like the itbs. if a kid scores in 99th%ile on verbal AND analytical, then they have a decent screening instrument in place, thus reducing the cost of identifying.

    the only problem with that is 2E kids would still get missed. but it is one screen that is already in place that virtually no school district wants to admit they can use. actually thinking about it, it screens for 2E, too. A discrepancy between those scores of more than 1SD would, imo, merit evaluation for SPED.

    suggest using the mandate tests for screening.
    _________________________
    Willa Gayle

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    #2466 - 04/12/07 05:05 AM Re: Some Updates [Re: willagayle]
    delbows Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/25/06
    Posts: 778
    Loc: Midwest
    I know it is a public school, but maybe you could suggest that parents must pay the cost for a private IQ test if they want their child considered for a highly gifted program. The exception could be that it would be provided free of charge to families who qualify for free lunch.

    Just thinking out-loud

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    #2467 - 04/12/07 08:37 AM Re: Some Updates [Re: delbows]
    Grinity Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/13/05
    Posts: 7207
    Loc: Connecticut
    Hi Texas Summer,
    Good Luck with your project - sounds very interesting! Are they looking to set this up for Kindergardeners up through 5th? For very young elementary students Deb Ruf's Giftedness Levels might be helpful, and they don't require expensive testing. For 3rd graders, and up, one could use the talent search. Actually, any of the standard tests your school uses as achievement test, could be used as above level tests for kid in younger grades.

    There are also some novel ways that actually work, like as all the kids in a classroom to write down the names of the three smartest kids, and look for trends. These kids can then be given further tests, or not. I believe that this method has been tried and found very effective - does anyone have a reference here?

    Another way is to give a test that would test all the objectives that are supposed to be learned at the current grade level. Kids who know 90% of the material can be given the corresponding test for the next year up. Kids who score 90% can be given the corresponding test for plus two years up. Take the ones who score the best and put 'em in the class. Reccomend that the rest get gradeskips.

    There is an excellent book from the ERGE, part of an excellent series on gifted, that mean to introduce students to the classic research studies. The one's I've gotten from my library have been very readable.

    These might be of help:


    Identification of Students for Gifted and Talented Programs (Essential Readings in Gifted Education Series) by Joseph S. Renzulli and Sally M. Reis (Paperback - Mar 6, 2004)

    Curriculum for Gifted and Talented Students (Essential Readings in Gifted Education Series) by Joyce L. VanTassel-Baska

    Program Evaluation in Gifted Education (Essential Readings in Gifted Education Series) by Carolyn M. Callahan and Sally M. Reis (Paperback - Mar 11, 2004)

    Remember two things -

    1) The identification method should fit the type of services you offer. A visual-spatial lego builder may or may not be well served in a writing-intensive gifted program. I've heard it said that the more extreame the giftedness, the more extreame the variation between individuals. I'm not sure I believe it, but I'm sure that it's true from the prespective of trying to provide an education that is right for each individual child.

    2)The program should be different (challenging) enough from the general curriculum that pretty much the only kids who's needs aren't being met in the regular classroom would even want to be there. That way you can let kids visit, and see if they fit "no matter what the tests say." You may want a program where the strongest readers come and join your core group for reading, strongest math-ers come and join for math.

    If it's possible for the teachers from the highly gifted program to interact with classroom teachers and help the classroom teachers met the needs of moderately gifted kids inside the regular classrooms, or reccomend gradeskips for the kids who need them, I suspect that the gifted teacher might be able to keep his/her eyes open for kids who would be best served in the highly gifted program but didn't get found for one reason or another at the time of testing, that way some of the pressure is off of the team to "get it right, right now." Some kids won't show their gifteness until they get that differentiated curriculum or their grade skip, but then (once the depression, or attitude, or whatever has lifted) they may turn out to be HG/PG afterall.

    What ever you do will be better than what is now, and teach you more about the next step. Don't let perfectionism stop you, ok?

    Love and More Love,
    Trinity
    _________________________
    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com

    Top
    #2469 - 04/12/07 08:52 AM Re: Some Updates [Re: delbows]
    Texas Summer Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/01/06
    Posts: 216
    Loc: Texas
    The only standardized test that Texas uses is the TAKS test. It is a pass or fail grade level test so it is worthless for any type of gifted identification.

    I don't know if I could get it to fly if parents had to pay for the testing. I am currently trying to get information from existing programs to see how programs are run in other places. I would like to be able to show a successful program as a model. To date, I have only been able to locate one program and I cannot get anyone from that program to communicate with me.

    Top
    #2474 - 04/12/07 10:28 AM Re: Some Updates [Re: Texas Summer]
    _KaT_ Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/16/07
    Posts: 29
    Loc: NeVada, USA
    Originally Posted By: Texas Summer
    Originally Posted By: _KaT_

    Their Highly Gifted Services state:

    The Highly Gifted Program is a K-12 program offered to eligible students with general intellectual abilities at or above 145 on the Stanford Binet Intelligence Scale administered by a licensed psychologist.


    Does the school administer the SB or are the parents responsible for the testing? I have been working to get an HG/PG elementary class in our district but have been told that the district has no way to identify the students. Apparently the tests that are currently used for GT identification have too low of a ceiling to identify HG/PG kids.



    A licensed psychologist from our school district's Highly Gifted program administered the SB test; they went to my son's school last year when he was in Kinder for the pre-screen and went back again this year for the full testing. They've been really good communication-wise, and Trinity is right about how it looks like they really have their act together.

    I'm still keeping very close tabs on my son, I know he enjoys the GATE classes and chess club at school on Fridays, but he still gets "yellows" and sometimes even "red" in class because he really has a tendency to just yell out answers, and his teacher has a bit of hard time getting him to finish some of his work (coloring, writing assignments in class).

    Despite several different approach, it will still take my son forever to finish something, and how can he be graded on unfinished work? We figure it's because some of the tasks that don't have problem solving involved don't motivate him enough; he's the same at home when he brings home homework - he'd do the math ones first but leaves off the coloring and tracing/writing the spelling words to the very end to the point it'll take him forever to complete the assignment.

    Also, does anyone else have this problem where (this is per the teacher's report when we all met together) your child takes on a sort of "leadership role" in class and basically gets other kids to do stuff for him? It seems that sometimes my son would have a few students from the class do stuff for him like coloring, cutting stuff out. I don't think my son is bossy, but I've noticed he sometimes take on the helpless act when it comes to the mundane work, and when I ask him if he had someone do work for him, he answers "Well, he asked if he could help, so I said yes".

    How can I motivate him to get even the mundane tasks finished (such as writing sentences down not just make them up in his head, tracing, etc)? To finish all the work and not just pick out the ones that he likes (math, problem solving)?

    Any tips?

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