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    #246841 - 02/20/20 11:10 AM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: aeh]
    MumOfThree Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1567
    Loc: Australia
    Originally Posted By: aeh

    -about why women with math ability may choose non-STEM careers (short version--more choices). Includes the observation that high math women are often also high verbal, while high math men often aren't.
    http://www.news.pitt.edu/women_STEM
    http://www.cds.web.unc.edu/files/2014/10/not_lack_of_ability.pdf


    I need to find time for more reading! One of the observations that Miraca Gross makes in her book is that the children in her study who had great multi-potentiality would generally be extended in the area that was easiest for their educators (math/science). So what they ended up pursing to the highest level did not necessarily reflect their area of highest potential in terms of childhood IQ. I seem to recall reading an article not that long ago that suggested almost the opposite, possibly a refletive article about SMPY and related studies, I must try to find that again, and I will be interested to read these articles you have linked.

    The comments you make about sample size and identifying more verbal children make sense.

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    #246844 - 02/20/20 03:49 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1506
    I think something that is understated is wit and comedy. So many top comedy writers came out of the Harvard Lampoon, like Colin Jost. And I know there are dozens more since DH was on the Lampoon. For a PG verbal kid, this is a great option to explore.


    Edited by Wren (02/20/20 03:49 PM)

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    #246845 - 02/20/20 04:56 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: Wren]
    MumOfThree Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1567
    Loc: Australia
    Thanks Wren.

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    #246846 - 02/22/20 04:55 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    spaghetti Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/05/15
    Posts: 437
    I'm late to the party but wanted to chime in. My dd was very very good in writing when she was 4. She wrote a lot. I could see her pain with the school curriculum but felt helpless to do anything for her. She even wrote letter to her principal in 4th grade talking about how GT isn't language arts, it's other stuff, and she needs more advanced language arts. She needed help with character development in 2nd grade. The other kids were still working on writing sentences to express an idea. She begged for help.

    She got advanced math, and by 5th grade, was advanced 4 years in math, but only one year in language arts. What finally helped-- though there were wasted years that I'm sure took their tool-- was signing her up for online literature courses where she was introduced to real literature and literary analysis. I wish I had found that avenue before. She did that after school through middle school, went to high school and sadly got totally turned off by a teacher who was very encouraging but then got post partum depression and suddenly hated dds work.

    So, at that point, dd found her social needs better met in STEM and pursued that in college. She gave up on high school English meeting any needs at all. The thing is that English is a standard class that everyone needs for 4 years and our state sets the curriculum. There may be different versions, but it's all the same books. YAWN. Math has more options.

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    #246847 - 02/22/20 09:02 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: spaghetti]
    MumOfThree Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1567
    Loc: Australia
    Originally Posted By: spaghetti
    I'm late to the party but wanted to chime in. My dd was very very good in writing when she was 4. She wrote a lot. I could see her pain with the school curriculum but felt helpless to do anything for her. She even wrote letter to her principal in 4th grade talking about how GT isn't language arts, it's other stuff, and she needs more advanced language arts. She needed help with character development in 2nd grade. The other kids were still working on writing sentences to express an idea. She begged for help.


    Oh the begging for help. It's heartbreaking. In Grade 3 my child's teacher used overt hyperbole in instructing the children on how to write their report on the class camp. "It must have AT LEAST a paragraph about each section, each paragraph must be AT LEAST a page long..." (maybe it wasn't hyperbole, maybe he was expecting many less words per page?)... My child took this quite literally, and (I think) as permission to write how they truly wanted to. The teacher then proceeded to harass the child and I because the work wasn't done fast enough and he wanted to mark it now now now. I often wonder what he thought when he received a clearly thought out accurately recounted 5000 word essay about gr3 camp? I suspect he was mostly annoyed because I don't recall there ever being much feedback other than "completed"...

    Originally Posted By: spaghetti
    She got advanced math, and by 5th grade, was advanced 4 years in math, but only one year in language arts. What finally helped-- though there were wasted years that I'm sure took their tool-- was signing her up for online literature courses where she was introduced to real literature and literary analysis. I wish I had found that avenue before.


    Could you provide a link to courses you were happy with? I am just about to embark on finding some options like this.

    Originally Posted By: spaghetti
    She did that after school through middle school, went to high school and sadly got totally turned off by a teacher who was very encouraging but then got post partum depression and suddenly hated dds work.


    What a horrible situation, you must have been very upset for her.

    Originally Posted By: spaghetti
    So, at that point, dd found her social needs better met in STEM and pursued that in college. She gave up on high school English meeting any needs at all. The thing is that English is a standard class that everyone needs for 4 years and our state sets the curriculum. There may be different versions, but it's all the same books. YAWN. Math has more options.


    It seems very much the case that is is much easier to extend Math and much more common do so. It's possible that may work for my child at some point but not at this point.

    I am reading my way through Miraca Gross's book at the moment and she explicitly references that there were children in her study who ended up in STEM not because it was their personal strength, but because they COULD (also) do math/science at a very high level and that's where they were able to get extension and support opportunities.


    Edited by MumOfThree (02/22/20 09:04 PM)

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    #246863 - 02/25/20 12:04 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    Eagle Mum Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 02/24/20
    Posts: 5
    Loc: Australia
    I have three kids. My eldest daughter is an even all rounder. My son, the middle child is also an all rounder but for the reasons already discussed, extended himself at Maths & Science (he scored 98 in the HSC Maths exam last year in Yr 9, has been to the AMT SoE and invited to the AMT Selection School). Because he is also an elite athlete & gifted musician, he receives a lot of attention from the school community, so my youngest makes great efforts to get out of his shadow, deliberately choosing to extend herself in other areas. Therefore, she focused on spelling and etymology, public speaking & debating, art and dancing.

    Interestingly, however, the one bit of advice her Yr 5 teacher took pains to communicate to me at the P-T interview was that though my youngest believed herself to be weak in maths and 'at the bottom of the class' (the exact words my daughter also used), she was actually good at it and it was just a negative self perception. She is now in Yr 8 and whilst she definitely still favours and excels in English & humanities subjects, as the maths gets more difficult, she is surpassing her peers and starting to enjoy both maths & science, so perhaps OP's daughter might be the same (ie. latent gifts which can be tapped if there's interest).

    Spaghetti's comment about online courses makes an important point. Gifted kids today don't have to rely on their teachers as our generation did. They can access an incredible range of online lectures, tutorials, courses and general resources. Many parents I've encountered voice concerns that access to electronic media may lead to games addiction but I've found the opposite to be true with my kids, who much preferred learning to games on their computers and use electronic media mainly as a tool when necessary.

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