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    #246824 - 02/17/20 03:37 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: pinewood1]
    aeh Online   content
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    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3612
    And when I was that age, I read Shakespeare, too (but more plays than poetry), and a fair amount of theology, including sacred texts from other faith traditions than my own (this is what was lying around the house). In addition, of course, to tons of fiction, heavily slanted toward science-fantasy--which, in retrospect, was probably not all age-appropriate, but without visuals to go with the text, a lot of the sexual content went over my head, and the severity of the violence seems to have been limited by my prior visual vocabulary.

    And yes, the views on diversity of all kinds were, um, of their time. But when one reads widely enough, one acquires a larger perspective in which to place different views--a more nuanced perspective, one hopes, which appreciates that people are full of contradictions, combining admirable and despicable qualities in the same (one might even say, every) individual.

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    #246826 - 02/17/20 06:07 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    MumOfThree Online   content
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    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1612
    Loc: Australia
    Yes, this one is my child who adores more traditional literature, which generally is more challenging, and at times problematic for all the mentioned reasons. I am thinking we will branch into more adult historical texts in the near future, we have been talking about lighter shakespear, jane austen maybe.

    But we are also dealing with far more interest in current affairs than is normal for age, with more (but incomplete) comprehension than should be possible, which is causing deep distress due to extreme empathy. And desire for instruction in history and politics etc which will be comprehended far above age, but not completely, and which are also likely to cause deep distress.

    And indeed often these interests and questions are driven by reading more historical fiction: ie questions about racism, sexism, slavery, orphanages, child abuse (which may not have been considered child abuse at the time of writing), which are then directly paired in lateral leaps with snippets of current affairs.


    Edited by MumOfThree (02/17/20 06:10 PM)

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    #246827 - 02/17/20 06:47 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    aeh Online   content
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    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3612
    ...it's those lateral leaps that create the complications, really.

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    #246828 - 02/17/20 07:10 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: pinewood1]
    MumOfThree Online   content
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    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1612
    Loc: Australia
    Originally Posted By: pinewood1
    A curriculum that gets into more sophisticated literary analysis, writing, etc. based on literature that is appropriate for a certain age seems like it could fill an unfilled niche.


    Exactly.

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    #246829 - 02/17/20 07:25 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    aeh Online   content
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    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3612
    I haven't read all of the books on this list, but I did find this crowd-sourced list of "clean" books with limited violence for someone looking for high school literature selections.

    https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/531214-high-school-booklist-substitutions

    And Progeny Press publishes literature study guides for Christian homeschoolers, which I would suspect would slant their selections toward less graphic novels--although that won't necessarily insulate you from complex themes. Also, you may or may not wish to use their curriculum if it doesn't align with your faith traditions. (Although I've skimmed through some of them, I have not actually used any of their guides myself.) Even if you don't use their literature guides, the book lists may still be worth consideration.

    https://stores.progenypress.com/

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    #246830 - 02/17/20 08:33 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    aeh Online   content
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    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3612
    Some old, but still interesting, research on presumed EG/PG children with predominantly verbal or predominantly mathematical/spatial strengths:

    http://www.davidsongifted.org/search-database/entry/a10188

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    #246831 - 02/18/20 04:08 AM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1528
    If a kid is interested in current affairs and general knowledge, debate is an excellent way to challenge them. DD started in debate, had the basic skills and did well in the beginning but when you had to be into social sciences, she dropped out. Kids who are into it, can go far.

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    #246836 - 02/19/20 12:03 PM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    MumOfThree Online   content
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/11
    Posts: 1612
    Loc: Australia
    AEH: that last article was incredibly interesting, clearly outlining that either there ARE many more EG/PG Math kids (or they are much better identified, which the article did not seem to address as a possibility). It really has given me quite a lot to think about. I need to go back and read it again with some note taking.

    Wren: Debate is absolutely on the agenda, though it will be very difficult to find a way to join a team for 2+ years for this child. When we withdrew from the last school mid year (6 months ago) that was dangled as a reason to stay "We have a great debate team, great philosophy club!"... "Can we access those before middle school?"..."Um, NO.".... "So you've got nothing for the next 2.5yrs?"

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    #246837 - 02/20/20 04:18 AM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    Wren Offline
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    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1528
    check out clubs. Before DD got into debate, I never researched outside options. Around here there are debate clubs that start early.

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    #246838 - 02/20/20 06:26 AM Re: Verbal Stregth vs Math/Spatial [Re: MumOfThree]
    aeh Online   content
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    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3612
    I would not be surprised if math kids were more easily ID'd in that particular study, as it used multiple-choice standardized testing data, which, although it had measures of reading comprehension, didn't include measures of exceptional written language gifts at all (outside of mechanics and grammar). Also, it's much more difficult to objectively assess expressive language in general. So learners with exceptional verbal comprehension were somewhat sampled, but not those with exceptional and original language creation gifts.

    Also, I think the pools weren't the same size (i.e., the reach of the SMPY math talent search, vs the CTY verbal talent search).

    But there is other research that seems to suggest that high math girls are more likely to be also high verbal, while high math boys are not, which one could imagine might mean that high math is more common than high verbal (granted these are not quite as high overall, but still a relatively selected pool):

    -about why women with math ability may choose non-STEM careers (short version--more choices). Includes the observation that high math women are often also high verbal, while high math men often aren't.
    http://www.news.pitt.edu/women_STEM
    http://www.cds.web.unc.edu/files/2014/10/not_lack_of_ability.pdf

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