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    #246353 - 11/25/19 02:44 AM Expected grades after grade skips
    Archie Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 12/08/16
    Posts: 40
    DS13 has grade skipped twice and he's still getting straight As. Does this sound ideal or would a challenging environment mean he should be getting​ Bs? Can school work be challenging enough and the kid still get great grades?

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    #246354 - 11/25/19 04:39 AM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Archie]
    Old Dad Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/30/12
    Posts: 422
    Academic work / study in K-12 should be difficult enough to stretch and at times struggle without causing unhealthy stress. That doesn't mean one can't get straight As but one should have to stretch to do so.

    The danger in not having stretch and at times struggle in K-12 education of course is that highly likely they will in college / university and a Freshman year when they're not among a lot of friends, family, etc. in a different environment than they're used to is not when you want them to get their first dose of academic struggle and figure out how to deal with it, that's when you want them thinking to themselves, "Okay, I've been though this before, I know how to deal with this, I can do this."

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    #246355 - 11/25/19 05:28 AM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Old Dad]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4146
    You've received great advice above.
    smile
    I'll just add this link to an old post on a great article: what kids don't learn if they do not have appropriate academic challenge.

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    #246356 - 11/25/19 05:48 AM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Archie]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3463
    ditto. It's not the grades per se. If he's getting As while having to practice some study skills and problem solving strategies, that's a very different situation from As while coasting. Or while chronically stressed, for that matter. The goal is balance and holistic development.

    Personally, once in graded situations, our children have been placed with an eye to a B here and there, mainly to shift the focus away from grades, and towards growth and resilience to failure.

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    #246359 - 11/25/19 12:41 PM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Archie]
    Old Dad Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/30/12
    Posts: 422
    I should add for context....

    My wife has taught public school for 37 years, more than half of that as a GT specialist in 7-12th grade. She sees a lot of her students well past their HS years as they've come to weigh her opinion and guidance very highly. She tells me that when students who have never had anything lower than an A finally get a grade lower, the reaction is usually (certainly not always) one of two reactions, either they're devastated, beside themselves (which you want to be around for as a parent) or they sob in relief because they no longer feel the pressure of needing to be perfect, whether that's a self expectation or one imposed on them by others. Perfectionism is a wicked mistress as we've often discussed on this forum.
    In either case, as a parent, that's something you want to be around for to coach them through the first time.

    I can tell you as well I have witnessed usually numerous GT students each year who after their Freshman year in college drop out because they feel like they were hit like an axe between the eyes with rigor and didn't know how to handle it. Better to stretch and struggle now and TALK about it. Help your child understand that academic struggle is when we learn the most and it's a part of the learning process, not to fear it but to embrace it understanding this is when big gains are made and to face it with tenacity and courage.

    On the other side of the coin, I mentioned unhealthy stress rather than struggle or stretch. Be aware of signs of unhealthy stress. Pushing a child too far can be deadly. There is a reason that the height of suicide in China is right after college testing. Over emphasis on grades and test scores is a good example of unhealthy stress that can lead to dire consequences.

    I've also been blessed to know quite a few students from other countries. One of their biggest compliments about education in the U.S. is that we allow students to make mistakes, even fail a class, learn from it, and give it another go. My eldest son said that about half of the people in his class that majored in Physics retook at least one class at his University. This is another important thing for young people to understand. A bad grade, even a whole bad year can be overcome.



    Edited by Old Dad (11/25/19 12:43 PM)

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    #246366 - 11/25/19 09:08 PM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Archie]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2014
    It depends how easy an A is to get as well. The US seems to have far more tests where a 100% is actually achievable than NZ. I assume therefore that more A grades are given out. If she is getting an A along with 20% of the class it is more of a concern than if she and a couple of other kids who work hard and are gifted get an A

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    #246368 - 11/26/19 12:05 AM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Archie]
    Archie Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 12/08/16
    Posts: 40
    Thanks, everyone.

    My son is in a gifted class as well, and the scores will often be accompanied by the class average. When DS gets 100% the class average is 85%. When he first started I warned him that he will likely not be the best in the class anymore (after being at an ordinary public school hitherto), and he didn't put much effort in and was getting A-s, now he puts in a little effort and gets As and A+s. He is happy and enjoys school, which I think is because he's realised with minimal effort he gets great scores. But then I wonder if that's a good thing and maybe things will always be that easy if he's that smart.

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    #246370 - 11/26/19 10:52 AM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Archie]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3463
    Will academic-type tasks always be that easy? Probably not, but maybe. (My PG sib has, as far as I can tell, never been remotely challenged intellectually, even after multiple rounds of radical acceleration, and a career in a high-achieving STEM field.)

    But will he ever be challenged in life? Yes. Absolutely. It may be worth considering changes to approach academic challenge, but even if that doesn't align with his holistic needs, or the needs or values of your family, there are other ways to build healthy challenges into his life.

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    #246371 - 11/26/19 03:54 PM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Old Dad]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1440
    Loc: NJ
    Originally Posted By: Old Dad


    The danger in not having stretch and at times struggle in K-12 education of course is that highly likely they will in college / university and a Freshman year when they're not among a lot of friends, family, etc. in a different environment than they're used to is not when you want them to get their first dose of academic struggle and figure out how to deal with it, that's when you want them thinking to themselves, "Okay, I've been though this before, I know how to deal with this, I can do this."

    ^^^^^This
    _________________________
    Become what you are

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    #246379 - 11/29/19 12:28 PM Re: Expected grades after grade skips [Re: Archie]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2269
    My DS has telescoped 2 years into 1, and is now in a mixed-age class doing course work 1 to 3 years ahead of his accelerated grade. So global acceleration is 2 to 4 years, depending on the subject. Where his assessments have numbered grades, he's getting 95%+ with minimal effort (e.g. 10 mins of study before tests, if any).

    Much of the work is project based, and allows him to stretch far beyond grade level as his interest and time allow. I'm grateful he has access to that mix.

    IMO, the goal is for him to have to struggle periodically with challenges he finds intrinsically rewarding. Curiosity, self-efficacy, and continuous self-improvement are all important goals.

    For example, he started learning his second language last year and is now, according to his teacher, around the top of his class among children with 4 years of experience. Last year required real effort, and he had moments of frustration and feeling like he was "behind", and that required gentle conversations about setting small goals and putting in reasonable, sustained effort.

    I was pleased to see him build inner resolve and focus on valuing his own progress, irrespective of how others are doing. To me, that's an important life lesson, as is the executive skill of planning and executing on the plan, which so many gifties never have to learn early.
    _________________________
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

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