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    #246298 - 11/09/19 04:51 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2592
    Loc: MA
    Higher Education’s Enemy Within
    An army of nonfaculty staff push for action and social justice at the expense of free inquiry.
    By José A. Cabranes
    Wall Street Journal
    Nov. 8, 2019 5:25 pm ET

    [T]he faculty plays almost no role in the admissions process at most universities. Instead, that process has been handed to specialized “admissions departments.” Faculty members who want to be involved in admissions are relegated to toothless advisory committees, where they are lucky to be invited to glimpse the making of the sausage. Admissions “professionals” are less interested in traditional academic criteria, such as scholastic talent and intellectual openness, than they are in flashier virtues such as “activism,” “leadership” or “overcoming adversity.” Students now arrive on campus having been instructed to promote themselves as “social entrepreneurs” or “change makers.” It has become common for applicants to claim to have “founded,” at 17, some shiny-sounding nonprofit devoted to beneficent acts.

    The contemporary admissions process thus reflects and advances a transformation of the university from a place of thought to an instrument of social action. Is it any wonder that students go searching for windmills at which to tilt?

    As the new species of bureaucrats and student activists have come to dominate the university, they have reshaped it in their image. Wherever possible, they have sought to muddle the distinction between intellectual deliberation and political action—thus making certain thoughts, like certain deeds, into crimes.

    ...

    Judge Cabranes serves on the Second U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. He was Yale’s first general counsel, and later served as a trustee of Yale, Columbia and Colgate universities.

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    #246306 - 11/13/19 05:55 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: Bostonian]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4146
    Limitations on free inquiry may pertain to the Ivies as well to more pedestrian post-secondary educational options. It may be increasingly important for parents and students to be aware of the current climate on a campus prior to applying for admissions. Three related points:

    1.Here is an executive order (13864 from March 21, 2019) which allows that any federal funds to an institution may be curtailed if the institution does not promote free inquiry.
    Sec. 3. Improving Free Inquiry on Campus. (a) To advance the policy described in subsection 2(a) of this order, the heads of covered agencies shall, in coordination with the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, take appropriate steps, in a manner consistent with applicable law, including the First Amendment, to ensure institutions that receive Federal research or education grants promote free inquiry, including through compliance with all applicable Federal laws, regulations, and policies.

    (b) “Covered agencies” for purposes of this section are the Departments of Defense, the Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Health and Human Services, Transportation, Energy, and Education; the Environmental Protection Agency; the National Science Foundation; and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

    (c) “Federal research or education grants” for purposes of this section include all funding provided by a covered agency directly to an institution but do not include funding associated with Federal student aid programs that cover tuition, fees, or stipends.

    2. Here is a reminder that lavish facilities tend to attract weaker students. Although the non-academic feature five years ago was lazy rivers, today's non-academic feature may be something else, more akin to political activism/agitation/dissent which limits free inquiry.

    3. Here is a paper from Stanford, written prior to socialism being a major talking point in the US. It discusses that historically, dissent and agitation may have been encouraged for the purpose of bringing down the current system, then once the new system was in place, dissent was immediately banned.
    Originally Posted By: paper, 2007-2008
    In a communist society, the individual's best interests are indistinguishable from the society's best interest. Thus, the idea of an individual freedom is incompatible with a communist ideology. The only reason to hold individual speech and information rights would be to better the society, a condition which would likely be met only in certain instances rather than across time, making the default a lack of freedom.
    ...
    [the people] should subject the party in power, to severe criticism
    ...
    leaders, while still a persecuted opposition philosophy, would strongly support speech rights and later reject them when communism becomes the ruling system. At that point, access to oppositional speech and information is no longer beneficial to the communist state, and thus no longer needed in communist philosophy.

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    #246309 - 11/14/19 06:06 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1472
    What is the optimal college atmosphere? Total intellectual focus? Are clubs, sports, community an issue?

    Operationally, the question becomes how do you manage an institution, dealing with funding, staffing, curriculum, housing, social institutions?

    Peer group? What kind of peer group? Do you care if it is ethnically balanced? What does ethnically balanced mean to you?

    The Lampoon has produced some of the top comedy writers, like Colin Jost who was president of the Lampoon at Harvard. But like Michael Che says, he didn't go to college and has the same job, so does it matter if Harvard has the Lampoon? Has football, that is quite crappy for college football. Should it go away so more Asian kids can be admitted, since they, as a group, have higher scores. DD's HS, which has 2 stages of testing to get in, is 80% chinese. Chinese, there are other asians. In Canada. That is who gets in. And a large group apply to the US for school and they get in to all the top schools. Now Chinese ethnically, as some of the parents are even Canadian born. But that was the point of the lawsuit. What do you want the college to be like? In all respects.

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    #246310 - 11/14/19 07:06 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2592
    Loc: MA
    Some famous parents have been implicated in the college admissions fraud masterminded by Rick Singer. A survey by YouGov from March 2019 finds that large fractions of parents would cheat to get their children in.

    25% of parents say they would pay college officials to get their children into a good school

    "Over one-third (34%) say they would pay a college prep organization to take a test on their child’s behalf."

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    #246313 - 11/14/19 02:47 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1472
    Not sure that they would now with a spotlight shining super bright.

    Also, I was thinking that Styvescant, which generally considered top high school in the US, Harvard takes about 25-30 students every year, has testing, and of the 10,000 students in NYC that take it, the top 700 get in and their ethnic make up is similar to DD's school. And deBlasio wants to do away with the specialized high schools after like almost 100 years. The scores from ethnically asian students tend to be higher. I don't think their parents are hiring someone to take the test. You have to look like you are in 8th grade.

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    #246314 - 11/14/19 03:32 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1472
    I think it is talent, luck and strategy. There are kids that do highly unusual things. Like that homeschooled kid that sailed around the world at 16. He got into Harvard. And there are kids that have double legacy that go to the right schools, have great scores and grades and have a decent resume of school president, state champion in debate. And there are kids that just stand out with their essay, as they go through 50,000 applications of top scores and grades. Why this one with 10 APs with all 5s and perfect SAT and not the next one? I know someone who got into Stanford without a top SAT score, good but not top tier. The mother was was a little shocked. it was EA. She actually pressed the button at the last minute. at the welcome meeting, the admission person came up to her and said that her school was known for producing the kind of kids they look for at Stanford. What had stood out to me when the mother was telling me, is that the girl had done this indigenous research over several summers since 8th grade with some professor. That kind of thing they look at. What makes you different than just perfect scores, how do you contribute to the community they want that has academic excellence but also is vibrant, interesting, exposes you to stuff you may never have explored. Like comedy writing at the Lampoon or hasty pudding club.

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    #246318 - 11/17/19 07:30 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: Wren]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4146
    Originally Posted By: Wren
    I don't think their parents are hiring someone to take the test. You have to look like you are in 8th grade.
    Links in this old post describe how test fraud has been accomplished, in some instances.

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    #246319 - 11/17/19 03:24 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1472
    I was referring to the test for specialized high schools in NYC not SAT for colleges. Sorry if that was not clear. It was talking about the lawsuit. If it was just abouut scores, what does the school look like demographically, what does it do for affirmative admissions? What does it do to the clubs? Hence, I cited 2 high schools that were just about scores and what they look like demographically.

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    #246369 - 11/26/19 04:15 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1472
    I was curious how MIT works.
    Ethnically, MIT is 36& Asian, 6.2 AA, 14% Hispanic, 33% white and rest international.

    But I wondered if they really do recruit for athletes, although they state they do not send out likely letters. But...

    MIT First requires that each and every student can attend MIT, survive freshman year, do well in a major and be able to graduate in a timely fashion. Each and every one, no matter what your extracurricular activities are.

    MIT has stated that Over 50% of the applicants can do that………. Yet, MIT now only admits 7.5% of the overall applicant pool.

    So how does MIT Pick that One out of Seven that could do the work, and obviously have an excellent high school academic record?

    They take a Holistic view of your application and look Long and Hard at you as a complete person, and therefore not only how you would fit with the undergraduate community but also what you would contribute to that community outside of the classroom.

    In one case that I am aware of, when MIT’s admission rate was 8%, 25% of the athletes that were “flagged” by a head coach were admitted. NOTE: Those coaches know MIT and will Not flag an applicant that they believe can Not make the academic “requirements”. Of those 25% who were admitted, some came to MIT and were very good students and superb team players.

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