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    #245982 - 09/02/19 12:20 PM WISC-V score help
    sh22 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/17/10
    Posts: 11
    Hello oh wise test experts! I hope you can help, even though this is not about a gifted student...

    I've just had my 14 yr old homeschooled daughter tested at the local high school for suspected LD's. Can you help me interpret the results and figure out further questions for the school psychologist?

    WISC-V scores:
    FSIQ - 116 86%
    Verbal comp - 130 98%
    Vis spat - 122 93%
    Fluid reas - 123 94%
    Work mem - 79 8%
    Proc. Speed - 75 5%

    Scaled scores:
    Sim - 16
    Vocab -15
    Info - 15
    Block - 15
    Vis puzz - 13
    Matrix - 15
    Fig weight - 13
    Digit span - 7
    Pic span -6
    Coding - 4
    Symbol - 7

    Does the great disparity in scores point to a LD? The psychologist' report just lists strengths and weaknesses. Not sure where to go next....

    #245985 - 09/02/19 12:53 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    aeh Offline

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3589
    I am assuming that an assessment for eligibility determination would have included achievement or other testing as well. That information would be extremely helpful in discussing the meaning of these results.

    That being said, I will also mention that you may wish to reconsider the contention that this is not about a gifted student; her verbal comprehension would generally be considered to be in the GT range, and the VS and FR domains not far below it. Her GAI, in fact, is in the GT range, while her CP is Very Low, a difference of nearly four standard deviations. With the marked difference between reasoning (GAI) and efficiency (CPI, or WM & PS), the FSIQ cannot be considered the most nuanced representation of her actual thinking ability.

    IOW, this cognitive profile certainly would keep the question of an LD alive. Whether she actually exhibits one would depend on many other areas of data, such as her formal academic profile, and your observations of her IRL performance. What led you to the evaluation?

    #245987 - 09/02/19 02:11 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    sh22 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/17/10
    Posts: 11
    Thanks so much for all the input! We didn't get the GAI score and I can't find tables online.

    DD *struggles* with math and numbers - she has great problems with rote memorization, math facts, multiplication, and dates. She has great difficulty retaining math lessons - she can read a math book and understand, but the next week cannot remember the lesson. She finds writing laborious and is a very poor speller. She has completed 3 AP exams (3 and 4's), but finds self-learning through textbooks difficult, and doubts her own abilities.

    The assessment also included the WJ-IV . Her scores are mostly all in the average range, with a few very low scores

    Basic reading - 96
    Letter id -98
    Word attack - 93
    Sentence fluency - 108
    Math - 93
    Math Calculation - 72!!
    Applied problems - 106
    Math facts fluency - 62!!
    Calculation - 84
    Written language - 103
    Spelling - 89
    Writing samples - 119
    Sentence writing fluency - 96

    #245988 - 09/02/19 06:05 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    aeh Offline

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3589
    pm'd you.

    Hm. Outside of writing samples (which is not scored for spelling), these are all markedly low for someone with her reasoning ability. Depending on what you anticipate as her post-secondary path, you may wish to consider a trip through an OG-based spelling or decoding intervention (e.g., Logic of English, All About Spelling). Do you currently use assistive technology with her? At the secondary level, it would be reasonable to use all forms of AT at some point, depending on the instructional goal at that moment. Though read-aloud/text-to-speech is likely less useful than it might otherwise be, given her WM. I would let her use speech-to-text for first drafts, when writing, so that she can get her ideas down without worrying about spelling and punctuation, and then go back and revise with the word processor. I would also consider use of a calculator.

    How are her fine motor skills?

    She is retaining something, because her strong verbal comp scores all require long-term retrieval of learned verbal skills. Is there any kind of pattern you can see in either what she remembers, or under what conditions she seems to recall more easily? I'm going to speculate that she does better with narrative, meaningful, contextualized memory, than with symbolic and rote memory. She might do better with strategies that create context or narratives, such as mentally storing related facts in "rooms", or learning multiplication through mini-stories, like in Times Tales. Is her recognition memory (aka, multiple choice tests) any different than her free recall (open response)?

    #245992 - 09/03/19 10:45 AM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    sh22 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/17/10
    Posts: 11
    Sorry to binge-post, but our IEP meeting is next week...

    The school psychologist says they don't do the GAI score. What is the best response? An someone recommend the best (short) "official" explanation or document to support use of the GAI?

    Thanks so much!!

    #245993 - 09/03/19 12:09 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    aeh Offline

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3589
    NAGC position statement on using the WISC-V GAI for GT identification:

    This document from Pearson (the publisher) regarding use of the GAI vs FSIQ references the WISC-IV, but still explains the argument for considering the GAI among global measures of cognitive ability:

    There are no legitimate online tables for the WISC-V GAI.

    #246008 - 09/04/19 06:55 AM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    EmmaL Offline

    Registered: 08/20/15
    Posts: 142
    sh22- If your District is like mine you might have a bit of trouble at the IEP meeting. You will need to show evidence of your daughter's struggling, in addition to testing discrepancies. Bring many work samples that document DD's struggles. Everything is data-driven. This way if the IEP team states well "we think" everything is fine and every student struggles from time to time, you can retort with data.

    You should also type out all of your parent concerns in bullet point format. This way you will run the IEP meeting instead of the district running it. Your other option would be to disagree with the District's testing and request a neuropsychological evaluation.

    Edited by EmmaL (09/04/19 06:57 AM)

    #246031 - 09/05/19 01:44 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    polarbear Offline

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3363
    Originally Posted By: sh22
    Sorry to binge-post, but our IEP meeting is next week...

    The school psychologist says they don't do the GAI score. What is the best response? An someone recommend the best (short) "official" explanation or document to support use of the GAI?

    Thanks so much!!

    Is the purpose of the IEP meeting to identify your dd as gifted so she has access to honors or gifted programs at the high school, to identify remediation and accommodations that will assist with the challenges she has, or both? If access to gifted programming isn't an issue (ie, doesn't require id as gifted by the school), I wouldn't worry about having the GAI calculation. I'd focus instead on the areas in which her achievement test scores don't sync with what you would expect from her ability (WISC) scores, and as EmmaL suggested, try to provide your own examples of specific areas where she is struggling. Please note that I'm not a professional, just a parent of a 2e student - but fwiw when advocating with our school district it helped me tremendously to fill in with specific examples of how our ds' challenges impacted the equivalent of work he would be tasked with doing in the classroom. You mentioned your dd has trouble retaining math lessons - you can recreate this at home by working through a specific lesson with her from her school curriculum, record her responses and ability to understand at the time of the lesson, document your notes and date - then one week later ask her to complete a few problems pulled from this lesson, mark them yourself, date it. Things like that - all of which may be too late to do for this IEP meeting, but something to consider in the future if you find the school is not seeing that there is an issue.

    There may also be a local parents advocate group that can help you understand what your rights are in your specific school district - although IEPs and 504 plans are pare of Federal programs it can help tremendously to understand how your own school district works, what their time frame and resources are, and what other parents' experience has been when seeking similar assistance from the school. I found our local group by googling... but that was years ago, and at this point in time this same advocates group is listed on our school district's special ed website as a resource.

    You mentioned your dd is 14 - it would also likely be helpful to have her voice included in the IEP meeting, which can happen even if she's not present.

    If the school district doesn't provide any further testing, it may be helpful to you (focusing not on school, but on helping your dd understand her challenges as well as strengths) to seek a neuropsychologist evaluation - the neuropsychology eval will include testing that can further determine *why* there are differences in achievement vs ability scores and help understand what is at the root of the variability in WISC scores. This was all extremely valuable information for us as parents and also for our ds. It didn't necessarily help with advocating at school when teachers and staff didn't want to hear about it, but it helped us understand what was really going on, how to remediate where possible, and how to work around challenges that would always be present.

    Best wishes,


    #246033 - 09/05/19 03:14 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    aeh Offline

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3589
    Just flipped back through the thread and was reminded that you homeschool...that gives a slightly different flavor to your advocacy. What is your objective in the IEP meeting? Are you seeking appropriate (GT or disabilities) services for your DC as a fully-enrolled public school student? Ancillary services as an in-district homeschool student? Instructional guidance for you as the homeschool parent and primary direct provider of instruction? The advocacy approaches of most utility will depend on your purpose.

    #246039 - 09/06/19 10:56 AM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: aeh]
    sh22 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/17/10
    Posts: 11
    Yes, we homeschool, so not looking for school - provided resources per se.

    DD requested the testing - she wanted to know why she struggles with (esp.) math.

    For me, I'd like formal accommodations for testing. She has completed 3 AP tests in time, but felt stretched to complete the essay portions. I can't even imagine her getting through the SAT math sections with her lack of math fluency....

    The school requires the PPT and IEP meetings - with like 20 people included!! They are visibly afraid that we will enroll DD...

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