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    #246039 - 09/06/19 10:56 AM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: aeh]
    sh22 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/17/10
    Posts: 11
    Yes, we homeschool, so not looking for school - provided resources per se.

    DD requested the testing - she wanted to know why she struggles with (esp.) math.

    For me, I'd like formal accommodations for testing. She has completed 3 AP tests in time, but felt stretched to complete the essay portions. I can't even imagine her getting through the SAT math sections with her lack of math fluency....

    The school requires the PPT and IEP meetings - with like 20 people included!! They are visibly afraid that we will enroll DD...

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    #246040 - 09/06/19 11:02 AM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: polarbear]
    sh22 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/17/10
    Posts: 11
    I'm afraid that without the GAI to show her higher level of potential, they will look at the FSIQ - high average, and all her WJ scores - mostly average, and determine hey! no problem here: average kid, average scores. The psychologist report doesn't mention LD's, just "relative" strengths and weaknesses. No real acknowledgement of her super low scores, or the discrepancy between her ability and her achievement.

    I can pursue the college board on my own, if needed. And DD can learn even better strategies for formal testing, if needed. I just don't want to be brushed off by the school pack.

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    #246041 - 09/06/19 01:12 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    polarbear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3359
    Originally Posted By: sh22
    I'm afraid that without the GAI to show her higher level of potential, they will look at the FSIQ - high average, and all her WJ scores - mostly average, and determine hey! no problem here: average kid, average scores. The psychologist report doesn't mention LD's, just "relative" strengths and weaknesses. No real acknowledgement of her super low scores, or the discrepancy between her ability and her achievement.


    That's where I found it super-helpful for myself to understand the individual WISC and achievement subtests in terms of what skills did each test, and then be prepared to explain what the differences represent. GAI isn't the only score that shows your dd's high potential - the subtest scores also show this. It would be nice to have the GAI, but even without it you have subtest data from the WISC that shows high potential and you have subtest data from the achievement testing that doesn't show the correlation you would expect given your dd's potential in corresponding areas. I can't offer you the specifics for your dd's case as I'm not a professional, but my experience as a parent advocating for a 2e child - understanding where the discrepancies told the story re my child's abilities and challenges was extremely helpful in advocating (more so than having a GAI, which we did have). It was also my experience that I just had to keep repeating the same story over and over - without emotion - but I was also in a situation where the school district did not want to offer accommodations or services and did not generally use a discrepancy model to qualify students for IEPs or 504s. I was ultimately successful in getting an IEP for my ds in elementary and he transitioned to a 504 in high school, as well as getting access to gifted programming. Having the neuropsychologist evaluation helped not only with understanding what his challenges were (our school district was no help re this) - but also because in advocating when the school staff would argue that ds didn't have a challenge etc and shouldn't qualify for services I could reply by asking "You are disagreeing with a degreed, certified and locally respected neuropsychologist?" - which was usually immediately effective in shutting down the attempts to close off further discussion by school staff.

    Good luck as you advocate - it can be really tough!

    polarbear

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    #246042 - 09/06/19 01:29 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    polarbear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3359
    Originally Posted By: sh22
    Yes, we homeschool, so not looking for school - provided resources per se.

    DD requested the testing - she wanted to know why she struggles with (esp.) math.


    I apologize - I'm reading backwards through the replies so didn't see this before posting my previous reply smile

    Your dd wants to know why she struggles with math - with the testing she's had so far it seems she knows part of the answer to that question - she's got achievement testing that backs up her concern that there is something at play that's not allowing her to achieve to her full potential. There is still a missing piece, however - what is causing the discrepancies in scores between achievement and ability? And how does that correlate to the challenges your dd is experiencing with math recall etc? Those are things that can likely be clarified through further testing, either through the school district or a neuropsych eval.

    Originally Posted By: sh22
    For me, I'd like formal accommodations for testing. She has completed 3 AP tests in time, but felt stretched to complete the essay portions. I can't even imagine her getting through the SAT math sections with her lack of math fluency....


    If you can get further documentation that shows your dd has a specific challenge it will be helpful in getting College Board accommodations. It will also be helpful to have a 504 plan or IEP through the school district when seeking College Board accommodations. I think you can advocate for both of these even if you are homeschooling- I didn't homeschool, but when my ds was in school homeschool students were able to qualify for 504 plans and IEP services through the school district. The easiest way to qualify for College Board accommodations is to have your school district to request the accommodations and to provide evidence your student is using accommodations - the CB prefers the school district make the request - but you can also make the request. We had to make the request as our ds' school refused to do so (even though he'd had an IEP since elementary followed by a 504 plan in high school - his high school insisted they'd "never had anyone who was in the gifted program qualify for accommodations")... so we applied independent of the school and had no problem qualifying with the documentation ds had.


    Originally Posted By: sh22
    The school requires the PPT and IEP meetings - with like 20 people included!! They are visibly afraid that we will enroll DD...


    Seeing so many people invited to the meeting can be intimidating, but it also may work in your favor. It doesn't necessarily mean they are hoping to fight against your dd enrolling or receiving services - it can mean that they are wanting to be sure they have the experts they need at the meeting to cover all potential concerns. Our personal experience was that it was these experts who were in fact more understanding and helpful than the specific school personnel (Sped Rep, Counselor, etc) because they were focused on student needs and challenges rather than whether or not the school wanted to avoid spending resources on the student. If it would help you feel more comfortable, you can bring an advocate with you to the meeting - this could be a professional (paid or volunteer) advocate who is familiar with your school district's process or your dd's challenges, or it could be another parent who is simply there to listen as they aren't going to be as emotionally invested in the situation and might pick up on things that you'll miss. Do you belong to a local homeschool association that might have advice on how to prepare for and approach the meeting?

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    #246043 - 09/06/19 01:31 PM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3457
    Her processing speed scores are in the range for which my institution has successfully obtained extended time for the SAT and ACT. If she has been just able to complete the AP tests within the standard time, she probably does not need 100% extended time (which, in my experience, some students find to be diminishing returns, because of the overall length of time in the testing room). 100% also requires finding and paying for a test proctor, whereas 50% extended can be handled by most regular test sites.

    Things to consider:
    1. Essay is not required on either the SAT or ACT conventional exams. SAT has changed the essay so many times in the past several years that it has limited predictive utility for admissions purposes anyway.
    2. Some portions of the tests allow calculator anyway. Her reasoning appears to be stronger than her computations, which in turn is better than her automaticity. I expect she will be fine for those parts. It might be helpful to try the sample test on line, and see how much of it really requires a calculator (not as much as you might think; my kids barely touched their calculators on the SAT, and one of them has fairly low fluency of all kinds). If she does okay on the practice test, keeping in mind that she still has a few years of high school to go, that might be reassuring.

    Does she feel like she now has enough information to understand her own learning better, especially in math?

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    #246135 - 09/30/19 07:48 AM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    sh22 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/17/10
    Posts: 11
    Hello all -

    Thanks for all your advice and information. I just wanted to update after the PPT meeting.

    As expected, they were most uninterested in a careful evaluation of her "average" scores vs. her higher potential, but we did get some traction with her "very low" math scores, and after quibbling a bit about the value of our homeschooling, the group did write up an official IEP for math calculation. They also handed over paperwork to apply for testing accommodations, which was probably our most concrete goal.

    Thanks for all the information, and to everyone who read or posted. We can move forward with the testing evaluation to help DD to understand her brain and its potential.

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    #246136 - 09/30/19 10:12 AM Re: WISC-V score help [Re: sh22]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3457
    Thanks for the update! Good to hear some productive actions came out of it.

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