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    Joined: Aug 2019
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    Hello, first post here.

    I'm wondering if someone can help me understand the impact and role my DS's scores in WM and PS on his learning, especially with regard to possible acceleration. This is all very new to me.

    He was recently assessed with the WISC-V by a private neuropsychologist that came highly recommended and has solid experience with gifted children. He was a very early reader (reads now at a middle school level) and is about 2 years above grade level in math, with very little formal instruction (he completes his older sister's unfinished workbooks, a little Khan Academy, Beast academy whenever he feels like picking up a book. We haven't done much encouragement or spent a lot of time on it with him.) We knew he was above average, and after getting a lot of push back from school about some form of acceleration I decided to have him assessed for the extra credibility. Turns out his scores were much higher than we expected. As follows:

    Verbal Comp
    Similarities 18
    Vocabulary 18

    Visual Spatial
    Block design 16
    (Visual Puzzles 18)

    Fluid Reasoning
    Matrix Reasoning 19
    Figure Weights 18

    Working memory
    Digit Span 14
    (Picture Span 12)

    Processing Speed
    Coding 14
    (Symbol Search 10)

    Supplemental
    (Arithmetic 16)

    Indexed scores
    VCI 146
    VSI 141
    FRI 151
    WMI 117
    PSI 111
    FSIQ 147

    QRI 143
    NV 145
    GAI 151
    CPI 117


    I have read that the scoring pattern of relatively lower scores on PSI and WMI are not uncommon with gifted kids. I know this can show up in kids with ADHD, but he truly does not have any signs of it. The examiner even made a point to note in her report that he displayed an excellent overall attention span and showed no signs of hyperactivity, impulsivity or distractibility. This is my experience with him too. He was always the kid seated with his hands folded in his lap and laser focus on the teacher (until midway through kinder when he was bored out of his mind - even then, he did his best to be the "good" kid.)

    I have been trying to understand how these relatively lower scores impact his performance in the classroom and in everyday life. And what the reason might be behind them.

    He is very articulate, outgoing, cheerful and generally a happy, silly kid. He has a phenomenal sense of humor, and is extremely creative, inventing worlds and countries and languages and a whole cast of characters. He's a lot of fun!

    However, he does have perfectionist tendencies, becoming stressed and frustrated when he can't get something right. A challenge will sometimes quickly overwhelm him and end in tears, especially if he has one fixed way of trying to do something that isn't working. He isn't flexible. He'll throw down the pencil and storm off. This has really compromised my ability to advocate for him. His teachers have said everything from, he is emotionally immature (I fully disagree -- he can read a room like someone years older, but when he gets angry, he's back to being a 6-year old) to insinuating that we push him too hard and he clearly isn't ready for the challenges and higher-level work we are asking them to offer.

    I'll also add that he doesn't really come across as super academic. He isn't a prodigy, he's not hyper-focused on any one subject (he loves to read and beyond that, his greatest love is playing soccer and riding his bike). However, he is clearly bored with age/grade-level curriculum. The content is just far below him and he's zoning out. I'm meeting with our head of school next week and I'd love to be able to have a better understanding of how these WM and PS scores might be impacting him, and how to navigate that in terms of advocacy.

    Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks!

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    Welcome!

    The simplest response to your WM/PS (or, together, CPI) question, honestly, is not to worry about it. None of the measures of WM or PS are remotely below average, and most of them are above. These two indices are more mechanical in nature than the other three indices, which comprise the reasoning-weighted General Ability Index. Not uncommonly, individuals, especially young children, will have motor speed or attention skills that more closely resemble those of their chronological age-peers, even when their higher-level reasoning and conceptual skills far surpass them. IOW, his handwriting may be not much better than the next child his age, even though he can read and comprehend many years ahead. Your concern about perfectionism may or may not be reflected in these scores, but since you have independently observed it outside of testing, you hardly need testing data to encourage addressing it.

    I am, of course, simplifying a bit, but the bottom line is that there are many reasons other than ADHD or other disabilities for the CPI tasks to be lower than the GAI tasks, especially in a very high cognitive individual. Most of them are quite innocuous, and have more to do with asynchrony than anything else. Perfectionism is one of the less innocuous explanations, with the most likely effects falling in the PSI. (That may have something to do with the SS score, which is his lowest subtest. Or the fact that it is the last subtest administered, and may have been affected by fatigue.)

    As to how they are affecting him: the typical scenario is that conceptual understanding far outstrips paper production. In a large class setting, where teachers are heavily reliant on paper (or digital proxy) products for assessing student skills, it can be very easy to inadvertently underestimate skills, by mistaking classroom attainment (what he produces for the teacher in structured assignments) for academic achievement (his actual range of academic skills, when assessed in a controlled environment, on properly validated instruments). The former is easily affected/depressed by factors such as handwriting skill or speed, poor fit in instructional level (which can affect motivation and attention), and social-emotional factors (anxiety, perfectionism, perceptions of the teacher's supportiveness, approval, expectations, etc.).


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    Originally Posted by Portia
    If you are in the US, you may want to consider Davidson Young Scholars for him. In the meantime, Davidson Institute has a database with lots of articles which can help you get your footing.

    Careful with "prodigy" and mixing it with stereotypes. Prodigy is different than genius.

    Hi, and thank you for the response! (I knew it took a little time for a first post to show up.) Yes, we are thinking about applying to DYS. The neuropsych who administered the test recommended it. I just have not quite got my head around it yet, but I've been reading through the articles on advocacy both on the website and here on this forum. Very helpful!

    Yes, thanks for the reminder. I know they shouldn't be confused, but I think I'm still having a bit of imposter syndrome for my kid about this. He just doesn't "seem" like an HG+/PG kid. I keep reading about these PG children who are working through college math at age 6 while mine is in the backyard hitting things with sticks. He relishes an academic challenge, and always gets excited about learning new things, but isn't necessarily actively seeking it out. I tend to just leave things about for him to discover. (Also I work full time, so our family time is so limited.) I will have to keep the dialogue going about perfectionism, but I'm a terrible role model in my own life when it comes to that, unfortunately.

    Thanks again!

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    Hi, Thank you so much for the response! I had heard (possibly incorrectly) that if CPI scores differed significantly from other scores that they could be some form of learning disability. But in practice, I just don't see it with my child. I also did not know that the SS subtest was the last administered. Fatigue could well explain that, as the test was administered with no significant breaks.

    I hope I can figure out a path forward with his school. (It is a small private school and the social-emotional component is excellent). I'd like to keep him there but I'm afraid that they are pretty entrenched in thinking that age-peer grouping is best and differentiation within that setting is sufficient. And perhaps it is possible. Classes have only been in session a week, they did give him an above grade level assessment (on a computer, thankfully, so hopefully it is fairly accurate) and so far I've seen a few worksheets, reading materials, and writing assignments that are more tailored to him. But it does seem like a lot for a teacher to keep up with continuously for one child, and I do worry about how he will handle the large portion of the day with whole-class group work, and an ongoing under-estimation of his true range.
    Thank you again for your insight. I've already shared his report with our principal, so this certainly provides me with more clarity should these scores come up in our discussion on Friday.

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    What you have heard about CPI scores is not precisely untrue, but, shall we say, incomplete. In some individuals, those discrepancies may reflect learning disabilities, but the correlation is far from one-to-one. Interesting score profiles can be a good jumping off place for asking clinically-valuable questions, but they are no be-all end-all (and I say this as a particularly avid consumer and producer of assessment data)! In general, it is well to keep in mind the old assessor's adage to interpret the scores in light of the child, and not the other way around.

    Good to hear that the school is so far attempting some differentiation for your DC. Sounds like you are keeping very close tabs on his school experience, which will help alert you should anything not be as he needs it to be.


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