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    #232130 - 07/08/16 10:13 AM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    VR00 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/16/12
    Posts: 181
    I have a number of friends who are considering college anywhere from age 11-16. The question I have on this is when do you consider a kid is ready from a academic perspective. My observation of most of these kids is that they are clearly all very smart but it is unclear if they are Einstein level smart.

    To put this quantitatively say your kid is in the top 0.1% percentile for their age level they might be at the 90th percentile (SWAG) for a normal incoming college grad. Can they handle college academically, clearly yes. Do they have much more room to grow by not going to college that early? The answer is also yes.

    How are you making those decisions?

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    #232134 - 07/09/16 06:50 AM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: Val]
    MsFriz Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/22/08
    Posts: 313
    Originally Posted By: Val
    Your son or daughter will be a child among adults, and the differences between them will be huge.


    Of course, it depends on how many years difference we're talking about, but I think some kids are more adult than others. I wasn't skipped personally but believe I should have been. In high school, I found adolescent rituals like prom demeaning and embarrassing, and my best friend at one point told me that I dressed and acted more like one of the teachers than the students. I was really insulted at the time, but it was probably a very astute observation on my friend's part. I often felt like an adult among kids and had a very hard time relating to my age peers.

    My son has been skipped twice, and while he was still a lower grades student in middle school, his teacher told us more than once that he was the most mature kid in her class--and this had nothing to do with academics.


    Edited by MsFriz (07/09/16 07:50 AM)

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    #232135 - 07/09/16 09:31 AM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    75west Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/11/11
    Posts: 471
    For some kids, the academic part is easy; it's more often the social/emotional readiness that trips them up. The attention span may not be there for a 10-12 yr-old to sit through a long lecture. They may get restless and fidgety. They may lack the ability to listen to what others may say and participate in required group discussions. They may have limited note-taking and study skills.

    The asynchronous development can really hinder kids between 10-16 yrs old. Some just don't have the motor, attention, etc. skills needed.

    IF you've got a 10-12-yr-old, let's say, who are doing MOOCs or perhaps whip through a college textbook, then you've got a child who can probably do the academic work at a cc/state college or equivalent. I say probably because MOOCs are shorter in length than standard than semester length courses. Some MOOCs are more rigorous than others. And many MOOCs do not have writing requirements or other types of assessments which are used in higher ed. A lot depends on the course, instructor, expectations for the course, what will be covered and perhaps how the child handles frustration and disappointment.

    Bear in mind - many schools will not touch kids until 14-16 yrs old or at least 12 yrs old regardless, due to the age and maturity. Some 14-year-old boys are pretty clueless, socially/emotionally. They can still act like 'little boys' and do rather silly things. That's the reality with some NT boys and that's the perception many in academia will have regardless of whether you have a 11-14+ age boy who could handle the academic work.

    MIT accepted Ahaan Rungta at 15 yrs, but he had taken a whopping 55 MITx and OCW courses! For the article, see link: http://news.mit.edu/2015/ahaan-rungta-mit-opencourseware-mitx-1116. Rungta was taking MITx and OCW courses at 9 yrs old but he didn't take Linear Algebra until he was ready. He was however doing university-level work at 5 yrs old and I don't think there was ever a question that he wasn't capable of doing the academic work. The question had to be on whether he could handle the social/emotional part of being physically at MIT at such a young age.

    So in other words, Rungta was more than capable of doing the academic work at MIT at an early age, but he still wasn't socially/emotionally ready to physically sit at lectures at MIT campus as a full-time student until he was older at age 15 (remember, he might have been closer to 16 yrs old too). My guess is that he probably did attend lectures at MIT which were open to the public and other university-level lectures in the area.

    Besides doing MOOCs and textbooks, I'd say attending university-level lectures open to the public can be a good way to assess whether a child/teen is ready for college. With higher education, a child/teen would need to be much more self-motivated, self-directed, self-initiating with their learning too.

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    #232136 - 07/09/16 11:08 AM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    sanne Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/30/16
    Posts: 289
    My son threw one of his big oppositional-defiant fits over his therapy homework, which was to write "at least an outline of" an autobiography. We're going on day 3 and he's desperately trying to control me and to control the situation. Why? Because he believes he is "bad" at writing and "can't" do it by himself. (Not a bit of truth to that, it's likely more manipulation. Might be his cognitive distortions so thick he's living in a fantasy world)

    Early college, virtual schooling, and homeschooling are not possibilities anymore. I will not get sucked into his oppositional-defiant game. The behavior is not dependent on the challenge level or interest level of schoolwork - because it's not about school, it's about trying to control the situation and other people. He had been doing great for about a month, but if all it takes is one low-expectation, ungraded writing assignment to bring it out.... NOPE. Not going there. Not wasting any more years of my life on that BS.

    Have fun in 4th grade at elementary school! :sarcasm: Fortunately, his bus comes before I get up in the morning, so I'll miss all the drama. The elementary school can have fun with him! :sarcasm:

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    #232141 - 07/09/16 01:25 PM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1472
    I also agree about the number of years. If it is radical, like Goodwill Hunting, then dual enrollment seems best. The recent Goodwill Hunting type at Hunter stayed in high school for arts and language and did all the math and physics at Columbia at the same time, then went to NYU for the math prodigy program when he would have been an undergrad. So he did his undergrad at Columbia while he did his high school. Wherever thye go to college, there should be a high school that lets them do some courses to "stay in high school". Whether you want prom or not, usually kids like to date in high school.

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    #232169 - 07/11/16 09:13 PM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    sanne Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/30/16
    Posts: 289
    Looks like one of my posts didn't go up. It was long, filling in details for those who asked.

    My son is 9. We did subject acceleration. I regret that now. He is 4th grade by age. 9th grade math, placed in community college for English and music theory. Social studies.... Who knows? I didn't follow CC standards. He could hold his own in high school history and civics classes. Science? He's off of CC standards there too. He did middle school level earth science last school year.

    I had been considering doing a dual enrollment between community college for English and music theory and I-don't-know-what grade for the rest.

    I have no idea what to do at this point. The district superintendent will prepare "advancement" options for me to look at.

    Homeschooling is not an option.

    I'm extremely hesitant with the community college stuff. He did get over his tantrum and write his therapy assignment independently, but I can't imagine under what conditions I would be willing to risk dealing with an oppositional-defiant homework tantrum. I expect ANY English class to bring that out of him in spades. The more pressure, the higher the risk. I might leave music theory at community college on the table as an option.

    Virtual charter is only an option if they can offer something that makes the hassle worth it to me.

    4th grade still sounds pretty good to me. (I'm exhausted, a break sounds lovely)

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    #232178 - 07/12/16 10:33 AM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    notnafnaf Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/07/14
    Posts: 199
    When he said he "can't do it" by himself, have you looked deeper to see if there is some gap or 2E that is making him act out like this? Gifted kids are able to compensate for a while - until they can't. I see a lot here where parents are finding out that "won't" situations turned out to be really "can't"... I am hoping those who have run into this may have some insights on that issue.

    I would suggest too maybe looking up some of HowlerKarma's posts since she does have a lot of great insights with her experiences - here is one:
    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/230101/1.html

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    #232179 - 07/12/16 10:47 AM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    sanne Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/30/16
    Posts: 289
    He has ADHD, slow processing speed. Makes writing burdensome. He reacts by shortening his thoughts.... Until they're no longer true. Then struggles with organization and re-writes them - each time losing more and more of the truth. I just looked over his outline. It's simplified to the point where the facts are lost. And he finds himself stuck adding WWWWWH details, because he's trying to write details for an untruthful statement/situation.

    He does this because of the length of the assignment. Because he is unwilling to follow directions and work on one segment at a time.

    He writes brilliantly in short segments. He is capable, but he refuses to use a strategy to allow him to write more easily. He also refuses to take his medication. He has oppositional-defiant disorder also. That erupted with virtual schooling.

    The "can't do it" statements are learned helplessness and/or trying to make me responsible for his homework (ODD, boundary issues). He has a long history of "can't" statements that when we fight it out are "don' wanna" statements.

    He is capable of writing at 10th/11th grade level - as assessed by the director of the virtual school who is a licensed high school teacher. He's showing me 2nd grade level writing (or worse) when he doesn't *want* to do the assignment.

    His behavioral and academic needs seem to conflict with each other.

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    #232184 - 07/12/16 03:05 PM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    sanne Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/30/16
    Posts: 289
    Wow. Thank you for the link. You're right one, that's exactly the type of situation we find ourselves in. He keeps asking for higher academics and I'm concerned that it's only going to escalate. I'm bookmarking that one for a reference to come back to. Thank you!!!

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    #232185 - 07/12/16 03:07 PM Re: Early College Entrance - radically early [Re: sanne]
    sanne Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/30/16
    Posts: 289
    My sister has done some writing mentoring with him. She sent me a message today and suggested he complete this assignment in poetry. Wow, what a difference! He accomplished a section (and it's brilliantly done), and he had fun writing it. And then he stressed over ??? Got stuck and started "flaming out" all over again.

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