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    #196982 - 07/23/14 09:19 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2613
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: 22B
    I'm trying to understand how and why "elite" colleges (not necessarily just Ivies) select students to admit using not just academics, but also "Extra-Curriculars" (ECs).

    Since this topic is of continuing interest I will revive the thread and mention a new article

    Don't Send Your Kid to the Ivy League: The nation's top colleges are turning our kids into zombies
    By William Deresiewicz
    The New Republic
    July 21, 2014

    Quote:
    In the spring of 2008, I did a daylong stint on the Yale admissions committee. We that is, three admissions staff, a member of the college dean’s office, and me, the faculty representative—were going through submissions from eastern Pennsylvania. The applicants had been assigned a score from one to four, calculated from a string of figures and codes—SATs, GPA, class rank, numerical scores to which the letters of recommendation had been converted, special notations for legacies and diversity cases. The ones had already been admitted, and the threes and fours could get in only under special conditions—if they were a nationally ranked athlete, for instance, or a “DevA,” (an applicant in the highest category of “development” cases, which means a child of very rich donors). Our task for the day was to adjudicate among the twos. Huge bowls of junk food were stationed at the side of the room to keep our energy up.

    The junior officer in charge, a young man who looked to be about 30, presented each case, rat-a-tat-tat, in a blizzard of admissions jargon that I had to pick up on the fly. “Good rig”: the transcript exhibits a good degree of academic rigor. “Ed level 1”: parents have an educational level no higher than high school, indicating a genuine hardship case. “MUSD”: a musician in the highest category of promise. Kids who had five or six items on their list of extracurriculars—the “brag”—were already in trouble, because that wasn’t nearly enough. We listened, asked questions, dove into a letter or two, then voted up or down.

    Clearly someone with only 6 ECs in addition to good grades and test scores is a slacker.

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    #196984 - 07/23/14 09:33 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: Bostonian]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3290
    Loc: California
    I started reading that article earlier today and will finish at lunchtime. This paragraph struck me:

    Quote:
    No one but me knows he fakes being well-read by thumbing through the first and last chapters of any book he hears about and obsessively devouring reviews in lieu of the real thing. He does this not because he’s incurious, but because there’s a bigger social reward for being able to talk about books than for actually reading them.


    I was also saddened, but not surprised, by the industrial acronyms and metrics used by the admissions committee (e.g., you get points for having good PQs [personal qualities] or being a DevA [parents in the highest category of donors to the university]).

    I was also a bit surprised that being able to memorize 30 lines of Pope's poetry made students at a "top university" "thoroughbreds." Err. My 9th grade Honors English class had to memorize Marc Antony's speech in Julius Caesar. Children in France memorize a new poem every week, starting in first grade.


    Edited by Val (07/23/14 09:45 AM)

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    #196985 - 07/23/14 10:17 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    "You cannot cogitate your way to sympathy with people of different backgrounds, still less to knowledge of them. You need to interact with them directly, and it has to be on an equal footing: not in the context of “service,” and not in the spirit of “making an effort,” either—swooping down on a member of the college support staff and offering to “buy them a coffee,” as a former Yalie once suggested, in order to “ask them about themselves.”

    Instead of service, how about service work? That’ll really give you insight into other people. How about waiting tables so that you can see how hard it is, physically and mentally?"

    I did this.

    Based on my experience, service work doesn't really give you an insight into other people, at least when you do it at age 18 or 19.

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    #196986 - 07/23/14 10:29 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: JonLaw]
    momosam Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/10/12
    Posts: 78
    Loc: southeast US
    Hmmm. The things I learned from waiting tables have stuck with me ever since. It was invaluable experience. Seriously.

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    #196987 - 07/23/14 10:34 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Zen Scanner Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/13/12
    Posts: 1478
    Loc: NC
    So, what I read is elite colleges are elitist. They take DivAs and convert them into zombies thus preventing the transfer of usable skills to old money. Then they take old money and convert it into basic research. Insidious.

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    #196988 - 07/23/14 10:48 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: momosam]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    Originally Posted By: momosam
    Hmmm. The things I learned from waiting tables have stuck with me ever since. It was invaluable experience. Seriously.


    Well, I reaffirmed what I already knew about myself, namely that any activities involving physical coordination and balance are not my strong suit.

    However, I already knew that from years of playing sports.

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    #196989 - 07/23/14 10:56 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    JonLaw Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/29/11
    Posts: 2007
    Loc: The Sub-Tropics
    I found a Slate article that provides some entertaining commentary on this article:

    "None of this is to say that we shouldn’t attempt to bridge socioeconomic and racial divides, or that we shouldn’t give more money to our struggling public colleges. But it’s unclear why we should expect undergraduate education to produce seismic shifts in perspective that Deresiewicz claims life itself largely cannot. “College is not the only chance to learn to think, but it is the best,” he writes. “One thing is certain: If you haven’t started by the time you finish your B.A., there’s little likelihood you’ll do it later.”

    This is perhaps the most terrifying sentence about higher education ever committed to print, one that feeds into the anxious, competitive mindset that Deresiewicz decries. Every ambitious student who believes that college is their opportunity to shape themselves will do whatever it takes to get into the very best, most exclusive school they can. When their experiences underwhelm, as many necessarily will, they will indeed leave college “anxious, timid, and lost,” believing that they’ve missed out on a chance at intellectual development. Deresiewicz has simply traded careerism for another exalted goal, with similar results."

    http://www.slate.com/articles/life/educa...iversities.html

    As I have said before, I wasn't sure what the point of college was or why I was there.

    However, I did learn a lot while I was there. Granted much of it related to mysticism, religious fundamentalism, general criminality (in conjunction with sociopathic behaviors), and severe mental illness.

    Had it not been for my college experience, I doubt that I would be to deal with the mentally ill on a day to day basis as I currently do.


    Edited by JonLaw (07/23/14 10:57 AM)
    Edit Reason: Adding link to slate article

    Top
    #196990 - 07/23/14 11:02 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Originally Posted By: JonLaw
    Originally Posted By: momosam
    Hmmm. The things I learned from waiting tables have stuck with me ever since. It was invaluable experience. Seriously.


    Well, I reaffirmed what I already knew about myself, namely that any activities involving physical coordination and balance are not my strong suit.

    However, I already knew that from years of playing sports.


    Yes, I knew this as well, Jon. smirk

    Self-discovery is highly overrated, I must say, since mine seemed to come with ample amounts of self-loathing and humiliation.

    I will also say that working such jobs during my teens taught me that I never wanted to work at a job where my boss felt actively threatened by my educational attainment or intellect. NEVER.

    College, on the other hand, taught me that academia was a much friendlier environment in which to be very intellectually capable. So I spent the next fourteen years there. LOL!


    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #196991 - 07/23/14 11:16 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Dude Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/04/11
    Posts: 2856
    Originally Posted By: article
    There are smart people who do not go to a prestigious college, or to any college—often precisely for reasons of class.


    Hi there. Have we met before?

    Top
    #196992 - 07/23/14 11:17 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2420
    Originally Posted By: Article
    Is there anything that I can do, a lot of young people have written to ask me, to avoid becoming an out-of-touch, entitled little sh*t?


    Line of the article.
    _________________________
    What is to give light must endure burning.

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