Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Dysgraphia...keyboard or no?

First, can I say spaghetti, your kid rocks! I would consider this my finest moment as a parent:


And I think you get at an important issue here, which knute demonstrates well, below:


There is a huge difference between learning to persevere with something that is hard, and being forced to fail endlessly on something you can't do, when no one is giving you the tools or teaching to be able to do it differently. It can take time and creativity and endless patience to figure out what needs to change to make that task doable for a specific child. As others noted above, the goal was definitely to get my kids independently functioning - but I admit, that took years and an ever-evolving array of approaches.

In grade 2-3, DD started using an iPad at school, with lots of word prediction. For shorter writing, she used a whiteboard and the teacher snapped pics with her phone (texture seems to be a big thing with my dysgraphic DD & DH). At home, when she had a lot to say, I'd mostly scribe (and sometimes she'd voice record or video), and when the ideas were coming out at a more leisurely pace, we'd play with keyboarding and voice-to-text. Grade 4-5 we got her a laptop for school, but apparently she's iGen and never liked it as much, as it didn't do word prediction nearly as well. We also found voice-to-text really didn't work that well for high-pitched kid voices, and also isn't very practical for school. Grade 6-7, we switched back to a tablet, one that comes with a detachable keyboard, and for her that seems the best of all worlds. I scribed as needed for several years: anytime writing it herself was going to get in the way of her thinking, learning or creating. Now, I can't remember when she last had me scribe text (though she still writes poetry on her whiteboard, then immediately reads to me to type up because when the muse takes her, she needs to run with it and it comes out so fast even she struggles to read what's on that board.)

I scribed for DS for a few years too, but he got pretty good with the keyboard (mostly, I shamefacedly admit, due to Minecraft) and again, hasn't wanted my help typing in many years. His solution, and his path to get there, was totally different than his sister's, though.

As knute notes, kids with LDs don't tend to do well under the time pressures that are built into most typing tutors (and don't even get me started on math minutes!). If they have fine motor issues, that may slow things down even more. I think one of the hardest things for me to learn as a parent is just how long these things take, how hard it is for my kids to learn certain things that were easy for me, and how flexible and always-changing I need to be. And how hard but important it is to ignore all the people around me who insist I am spoiling my kids and they need to do it all themselves, yesterday. My kids got there, but not by the path and not on the timeline that worked for anyone else. Patience! Never my strong suit, but they are teaching me

Platypus, you said many other things, most of them far more important than this one ...but I just had to say, my dysgraphicky kid learned to type from Minecraft, too! A whole summer spent on Typing Instructor for Kids, another semester spent on typing.com, numerous attempts to get speech-to-text to work, and it was ultimately Minecraft that did it. That, and responding to comments on Scratch.
Which is, of course, the bottom line.

It is really funny that you mention Minecraft because she is dying for it! I do not allow video games or a lot of screen time, but I have been so desperate that I set up a behavioral plan where she can earn it in exchange for learning to type!

Ah. So this is a pretty classical dysgraphic profile, with underlying automaticity deficits and fine-motor deficits across the board. In that case, I would probably work on handwriting only if she chooses to do so, and only with very simple long-term goals of being able to sign/write her name for a legal document, legibly fill out a form, and write a one-line thank you note. Everything else should use assistive technology (typing, speech-to-text for both language and math), especially as it will likely take her longer than her age-peers to master typing. I'd also suggest a mastery approach to repetitive academic skills (reduced workload/starred essential items only, sufficient to demonstrate mastery of standards): e.g., when doing a math paper, the teacher should star the five or six items that will allow them to assess her progress on the learning standards. Successful completion of those items should result in credit for the entire paper. Also, as much oral assessment as practical. I used to scribe all of my DC's math work. There are speech-to-math apps as well (e.g., EquatIO chrome plug-in).

Not so sure I agree that dyspraxia can be ruled out, especially since the persons saying so, as skilled as they might be in their areas of expertise, are not qualified to make that diagnostic decision.

So happy to hear that you and she are both feeling more relaxed and happier these days. Sometimes just naming the problem reduces anxiety.

I should add that she has two OTs. One in school and a private one. The private one feels that she is �a little dyspraxic.� So with everything with my daughter, no one can agree on what is going on.

She draws nicely and holds the pencil properly then. She doesn�t have an issue writing numbers. She can sign her name in cursive. At times, her handwriting is very nice particularly when she is engaged in a task. But if not, she will refuse to hold the pencil properly and get frustrated.

It should be noted that she is an adorable, sweet, and well-behaved child. She has a great sense of human and is very kind to her friends. She is typical in those ways which seems even more unusual for someone who had such high scores.

So I�m not sure where all of this leaves me. It�s hard to understand how a child could be so exceptionally gifted but still struggle with basic things. Of course, I�m worried about her future. Does it all work out in the end?

Does automaticity improve through maturation? Is this just part of the asynchronous development? I should add that she doesn’t have issues drawing or doing math. It’s really the writing of words that she detests.

Yes.... but no. Yes, insofar as almost everything gets better with age and maturation and development. And most physical issues, like those affecting fine motor skills, are amenable to remediation and improve with practice.

But asynchronous development is still normal development; it just describes that different parts are happening on different timelines. Dysgraphia, on the other hand, is a learning disability, i.e. a neurological difference that is there for life. You never stop being LD, but you do get ever better at finding and using your compensations and workarounds.

So for instance, I lived with DH for 20 years without (either of us!) ever being aware he was dyslexic and dysgraphic, not until DD was diagnosed. Only then did he start slowly disclosing all the various things he did to cope. As an adult, he has quite a lot of control over his environment. So on the one hand, a perfectly functional, well-employed adult obviously doing fine.

On the other hand, though - he still cannot listen and take notes. It's pick one. (Lucky him, he's got phenomenal memory and gets away with this). Dysgraphia as a cognitive deficit is very specifically a lack of automaticity in letter formation (so it doesn't affect drawing). If he tries to take meeting notes while still paying enough attention to the speaker, he gets bits and pieces of words that are both illegible, and missing so many letters even he can't guess what they are supposed to be. Properly formed letters, in the right words, in the right order, are only something he can do if he focuses all his attention on his writing (none left for the speaker). Note that - as many others here have also described - he can at times write neatly. But it's very slow, and he describes it as "drawing the words as a picture", not writing letters.

The bad thing about dysgraphia is that unlike other LDs (especially dyslexia), it doesn't seem to be particularly amendable to remediation. The good thing is, the workaround is incredibly easy: all you need is a keyboard and you've by-passed it.

But - you had to know there was a but, sorry! LDs do tend to come in clusters. My household's dyslexia/ dysgraphia/ ADHD is a very common triad. By-passing handwriting is easy and great - but doesn't do anything about their other challenges, which we still have to address in myriad other ways.

She wasn't diagnosed with dyslexia and definitely doesn't have ADHD. She struggles to decode because she doesn't have great phonological awareness and relies a lot on semantic awareness to read. I am reading Sally Shawitz's book and it definitely resonates with me. She actually reads at the benchmark and isn't technically behind her peers, but you would certainly think she would be reading better. The school on my request has been giving her one-on-one Wilson reading help three times a week for 40-minute sessions. They claim that she is retaining all of the rules and should be done next year. The teacher did have to adapt the program so she went whole to part and not part to whole. She also started integrating visual cues. Since doing this, she is speeding through where she wasn't when it started.

Does this seem like a visual-spatial giftedness? Or no, because her verbal abilities are too high?

THANK YOU! YOU ARE ALL AMAZING! This week I have her trying a private school to give us an option to public. This school is trying to rebrand themselves as a gifted school and has an AMAZING science program which is her thing! The science teacher who knows her from summer camp claims that they will accommodate her in anyway I need. They will give her a laptop, give her reading assistance, etc. She basically said that they want my daughter so badly that I have leverage to make a list a demands. I am so confused! I know public school will get me services, but this school seems to be much more equipped in understanding giftedness and gifted kid quirks.