Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Question about some new test results

Hiya all We recently participated in a study that involved some WISC testing used to calculate an "estimated IQ." DS was not allowed to take his ADHD meds for the testing per study requirements. He was extremely hyper and distracted as would be expected without his meds.

I am mostly interested if anyone has any opinions on the areas that changed since his last testing (last test was age 7, he is currently 9).

Verbal Comprehension Index 121 (past result 118)
Fluid Reasoning Index 137 (past result 155)
ESTIMATED FULL SCALE IQ* 133 (past result 144)

Similarities 15 (past result 11)
Vocabulary 13 (past result 16)
Matrix Reasoning 19 (past result 19)
Figure Weights 14 (past result 19)
Digit Span 19 (past result 19)
Symbol Search 11 (past result 8)

Disregarding the figure weights test (tester comments below), what stands out to me is the big difference in both verbal scores, one going up and the other down. The VCI barely changed, but when he was last tested similarities was his weakest "important" score and now it's not half bad. I always wondered if it was an accurate representation of DS's verbal abilities or not.

The report does not mention behavior in relation to any specific subtest other than figure weights. Should I consider his new similarities score to be a better representation of his ability? Should I be concerned about the large drop in vocabulary?

We have an IEP meeting scheduled for Wednesday and I had planned to go in and advocate for them to increase the difficulty of his math and decrease the difficulty of his reading/writing assignments. His prior test had me convinced that he is not gifted verbally. At school he is mostly having behaviors during language based subjects, especially refusal behaviors.

He has consistently scored precisely at the 99th %ile on MAP for reading/language and his testing at the start of 3rd grade put him at level V for fiction and level Z for non-fiction. So they really push him in verbal subjects based on his performance on these measures, but if his verbal reasoning is below what he actually appears to read and understand maybe we should request that they move him back to level S books? (He generally reads anywhere from N-S at home). He was recently frustrated by a level Z book they presented at school that had a lot of words he did not know and he refused to read it (and I got a call).

Our main goal at school is no behaviors, but we would also prefer if DS was getting something out of his academic time there. He has requested harder math, so we are definitely going to push for that. It's the reading/writing that have me questioning everything, and these new results have not done a lot to make matters more clear.

In case it is relevant to the interpretation of everything, DS is diagnosed with ADHD (severe), ASD (mild), and Tourette's.

Thanks for any advice/ideas you can offer


Tester observations:

DS was observed to have greater difficulty attending to tasks as the day progressed and demonstrated greater hyperactivity. Toward the end of the session (after a short lunch break), DS had significant difficulty staying in his seat, and often tried to lie or sit on the table, grab the assessment materials, or wrap himself in a curtain (that was used to cover an observation mirror in the room). This seemed to impact his performance on one particular timed task in the cognitive assessment (Figure Weights). Although the examiner waited until DS was attending before presenting the items, DS occasionally became distracted while the item was presented and took longer than allowed to provide a response on some items; as a result, he did not receive credit for some items
which were answered correctly and likely within an acceptable time limit had he not become distracted and stopped working on the task.

I have an appointment in ten minutes, so I can't comment at the length I usually do
...but was there any indication from the examiner (or could you obtain one) as to where they would estimate his FW score to lie if his overtime responses could have been included? How many uncredited correct responses did he have? Just one or two doesn't make a huge difference, but if we're talking four or five or more, that would be quite enough to account for the drop since last time (taking into account natural testing variation).

And secondly, the Index scores are much more reliable from test to retest than the subtest scores are. I wouldn't make any high stakes decisions based on a change in subtest scores alone, especially when the conditions also changed from medicated to unmedicated.

OK, so I can't really ask any questions about the testing, the report is generated from the notes the Dr wrote while testing DS. The focus of the study is on how the brain changes over time and the IQ test is more to make sure that only children without ID are included in the study. The report is provided as a courtesy. I also got a picture of my son's brain, which looks amazingly normal, at least to me. I wouldn't have been surprised to see something crazy going on in there!

Overall I'm not concerned about the drop in FW since there was a clear behavior problem at the time and IRL DS excels so much in the math/visual spatial/logic areas that he vastly outperforms most adults, including myself. It's always been the other stuff I worry about.

I had a talk with DS tonight and he said that he is OK with the level of the school work other than math, so I guess I will just mention the idea of lowering the verbal stuff a bit and see what they think. DS actually has been planning on attending this IEP meeting for some time and has a written statement prepared asking for harder math and pointing out some accommodations that are written in the IEP, but are not being implemented.

It's hard for me to know how to work with the school to accomodate a kid who has multiple disabilities, behavior issues, and an unusual IQ profile that is opposite of what they are used to working with at the school. His entire gifted program (2x per 6 day cycle for 60 minutes) takes place as a push in during LA and consists of reading high level non-fiction texts in areas of interest (mostly science stuff). DS reports that he does enjoy the program, but preferred it last year when it was a pull out and included math. Also worth noting, while DS reads at a higher level for non-fiction, he very much prefers fiction and reads it almost exclusively at home.

I guess some part of me still believes that if we get the academics right the behaviors will improve. I honestly don't have any trouble with him at home for the most part (excluding times he goes into crazy periods, which thankfully hasn't happened for almost a year now). He is such a calm, sweet, helpful child (when medicated!) and he loves to play and learn.

It's so hard for me to understand how he goes to school and throws tantrums and breaks rules. None of that happens at home or in the community. Restaurants and even the dentist love my son. Last year when we flew on a plane the people behind us commented that they didn't even know a kid had been in front of them the whole ride.

He is so friendly and outgoing it's hard to imagine what is going on at the school that has him so upset he's misbehaving. I'd love to be able to cross off academic mismatch as a cause for the behaviors, but I'm not sure that will ever really be possible. I honestly wish DS didn't want to go to school, I would very much prefer to homeschool him. He really wants to go to school though, he even hates days off, including Christmas break!

I suspect that having a voice (or not) is a significant part of his school-based behaviors. His cognitive profile is so strong in abstract-conceptual thinking that having to follow unreasonable (or at least incompletely explained) rules and regulations all day is likely vastly frustrating. Completely aside from the lack of intellectual stimulation in his area of strength. IOW, having a better academic match would help a great deal, but it wouldn't make the collection of mundane and arbitrary rules that is most institutional schools go away.

Will the school allow you to sit in to observe his classes for a day or a few hours? You may be able to pick up on something that he has been unable to articulate.

And as to home schooling in your circumstances: one of ours is very lively, friendly, and extroverted, who loved school, hated days off, etc. (The difference is, school loved DC back, despite biting classmates in first grade!) We made the decision to home school eventually, despite DC's preferences, but with consent, and with a lengthy, bidirectional conversation about educational needs, holistic development, the zone of proximal development, and how we would make sure that the other social needs were met. It was a decision that DC understood intellectually at the time (which is why we got compliance), but wasn't happy about, but it took three years before a comment one day, out of the blue, that DC was happy, in retrospect, that we had made the parental decision to home school.

I can't tell you what's best for your child, of course, but I just wanted to throw out there that sometimes it comes down to a thoughtful, well-communicated parenting decision, which hears and takes into account the perspectives of the child, but ultimately is the loving choice of caring adults.